Chains Knucklehead Needs Tire Chains!

[DaveM]

Hi All,

Wow, my first post in Kubota OWNING! Interesting how my last post in Kubota Buying progressed into a tire loading/ballast discussion. I don't think I'll be draining out the washer fluid because it's not as heavy as other solutions though.

OK, I debated a bit about this post but what the heck I'm not too proud /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. About 20 minutes after the dealer dropped off our new tractor I found myself stranded down a snow covered path about 700' from the house. I've got photos to prove it and if I get the chance I'll try to post them here somewhere. I had hoped to postpone buying tire chains until next winter because I really think we're just about done with this winter's er' spring's snow. Jeez, we were getting some light snow this morning when I went down to look at my dear, lonely, cold, wet tractor! Anyway, my dealer gave me the name of the place (local) they get their chains from, so I could save a few bucks, and I want to call them today. Since I've now discovered first hand some of the traction limitations with R4 tires I suspect they'll come in handy for non-snow uses also such as muddy ground or garden tilling work. Are there any special considerations or questions I should know about?

Slightly Embarrassed but Happy- Dave

 

[Boondox]

Dave -- Congrats on hitting that learning curve! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif The type of chain you choose depends a lot on your tires and local conditions. Here in hilly Vermont -- with five feet of snow in the yard and more falling as I type this -- only the big Norse chains (diamond pattern with ice studs) meet my needs. Others, with less incline on their property, get along with ladder chains unless they run ag tires; the ladders get lost between the lugs and offer little traction.

Give me some idea of the conditions you're up against.

Pete
www.gatewaytovermont.com

 

[Steve_S]

Hi Dave, and congratulations on your purchase. But I am a little confused. Are you saying that you purchased the R4 tires with your rig? And also, what model tractor did you get? I have a BX2200 and used it a lot in some deep snow this year. I have the "bar" tires on it which are wider than your typical ag tire and beefier than some R4's. I had no problem whatsoever in the snow. I did however have a 6' blade on the rear for ballest and plowing purposes. I am not sure you need chains with R4's, maybe just a little more weight in the rear. There have been a few posts on TBN in the past of people with turfs having no problems with snow removal.

 

[DaveM]

Pete- I DO have R4 tires. Unfortunately these seem to live up to their reputation. More traction than turfs, less than Ag/R1's. R1's will be too rough on my lawn and turfs probably won't cut it for ground work or moving around in the rough areas.

I too am in major snow and hill country though probably not as much as you and others further north here in NY. This is just my second winter here so I really don't know what "typical" snow amounts to expect in future winters. I'm originally from so. Indiana, where it snows, but not like here! Fortunately, our gravel drive is pretty level (not totally) and the 1-2 acres the house sits on is about the same. Except for the 2-3 acres around the house and driveway all our property slopes away, fairly gentle slope but a slope none the less. Elevation drops about 200' down to the creek which I'll never reach on a tractor! In hindsight, I really had/have no business getting off the driveway with this much (or any?) snow on the ground. Although I bet I could use the Norse chains you mention I wonder if they're too specialized. Would they hold up alright for non-snow uses? Ultimatley, I might want to get two types of chains but just don't know right now. Frankly, I don't know if any chains will get me back up the hill with this much snow on the ground but I want to try and I need some type of chains anyway. Fortunately the forecast for the next few days is good. No snow and above freezing temps. so I might see ground again by this weekend. Of course then I expect "mud season"!

Dave

 

[DaveM]

Steve- I just went back to my "profile" and tweaked it to indicate that I have the R4's on our B2710. BTW, in case you don't know you can see lots of info about some folks here if you click on their user name's. That will take you to their profile.

I don't think adding more weight will really help much. Could be wrong though! My rear tires are loaded with aprx. 200 lbs. of ballast each and I have the FEL on which should provide enough weight up front. Fact is, I think there's just too much snow (6-8") and it's currently very granular and slippery from so many freeze/thaw cycles. I can move OK on level ground (it's not stuck, it's stranded!) I just don't have enough traction to move up hill. Again in hindsight, If I had lowered the bucket on my way DOWN the hill and removed alot of the snow I might've been able to get back up. Dooh!!

Dave

 

[Boondox]

Dave -- Norse chains are also sometimes called "skidder chains," since they are the type used by loggers on those enormous "ATVs". Very aggressive in mud and snow. This is my first year with them, and I'm impressed both with the traction and durability. They aren't cheap; I spent $550 for mine, but when you depend on your tractor they're worth every penny. They come sized to fit rear tires on the L-series, and can be cut down to fit the B-series.

Last winter I had a B1750 with two sets of tires/wheels. Used ags in the non-winter months, and turfs with 2-link spaced ladder chains in the winter. Toward the end of winter when the snow was wet and heavy they tended to load with ice which greatly reduced traction (as well as making for an exceptionally bumpy ride!), but others who used that setup reported no loading troubles at all.

FYI: I originally intended to get R4s, but during a test drive at a local dealer they completely lost traction in 3" of snow on a very gentle slope. That was enough to send me to ags with chains.

My opinion? Don't bother with two sets of chains. Get one set, but the best you can find. They'll never wear out, and you'll love the additional traction.

Pete in Northern Vermont
www.gatewaytovermont.com

 

[DFB]

Dave,

So just what is the recovery plan?

You may not want tire chains as aggressive as the ones' Pete has, though I probably would have them too if I was that far NORTH. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Something to consider. The more chain on the face of the tire the rougher the ride on harder surfaces. Check out the pics at Tirechains. Maybe a double ring style or the duogrip. Rides high on the tire.
Also here's a link to some other styles Canadianchain.com. Congrats on your new machine.
Good Luck

DFB

 

[DaveM]

DFB- I'm not sure if there is a plan /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. I may just have to wait it out! Chains may be the "little extra" I need or I might try using the FEL to push me inch worm like up the hill. Unfortunately, I have even less experience with an FEL than I do the tractor. And yes I have used the FEL to move SOME snow but it hasn't helped yet and I haven't helped mother earth any in the process!

I looked at tirechains.com and they only offer the basic ladder style chain in my size, 12.4-16. The canadian site seems to have a server problem so I haven't been able to check it out yet.

Dave

 

[hayden]

Dave,

I just went through this with my 2910 which has the same size R4s that you have on your 2710 (12.4-16).

The more agressive chains that boondox has I couldn't find in a size that would fit. Tirechains.com doesn't have them, nor does BB-Chain. Labonville had them earlier in the season, but is out and doesn't expect more 'till next year.

I ended up getting ladder chains from BB-Chain. They are right down the road from me which was convenient. The chains fit, but are too long and need to be trimmed, along with removing 2 of the cross chains. It's not a big deal to do, and I gather is par for the course for most chains. Some people have been understandably frustrated by chains that require trimming when they are alleged to fit out of the box. I'd suggest you simply expect to do some trimming and be happy if you get lucky and don't. Cost was about $170 for the pair, which is much less than the $550 Boondox paid for the higher end chains.

The traction improvement is quite noticable.

Good luck,

Peter

 

[DFB]

Dave,

I've got the same problem finding the type of chain I want listed anywhere for the R4 size(12-16.5) on my tractor. Like you say all there seems to be available is ladder style. Talkin' to the guys at the nearest dealer, they said to get the next closet size in the style you want and make them fit. I guess since they most seem to have to be cut down anyways it wouldn't be that big a deal.

The wife's stepdad keeps reinforcing to me the big difference having chains make. He's been plowing snow for years without problem using chains on a 2WD Ford. Did you try using the differential lock? Keep us posted. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

DFB

 

[DaveM]

DFB- Yes I tried the diff. lock. It just makes the back wheels dig an even deeper hole! I will let everyone know what eventually works.

In the meantime, I'll TRY to attach a few photos. This first one is "delivery time"!

 

[DaveM]

Hey, I think that worked. Someone please let me know if these files are too big or if there's any other problem I should be aware of.

Second photo sort of shows the big picture I gotta deal with!

 

[DaveM]

I've got a few more but this photo shows the most detail. The path I need to get up is just ahead and to the right. To the left is the woods with a steep 4' drop and then another 100' of gentle slope before it gets REAL steep all the way down to a creek! I definetely don't want to get in the woods!!!

Note all the snow I abused with the FEL and all four tires /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

 

[Bird]

Good pictures, Dave. You're just getting into that learning curve like the rest of us have done./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[gerard]

Dave, FYI I have an L2500 w/ R1's and a 7ft backblade I use for plowing. I live in Syracuse NY up in the hills so we get a lot of snow. Just picked up a set of the duogrip chains from tirechains.com and am very pleased. Cheapest I could find (gemplers had same set for $260, I paid $160 + shipping) and they fit fine. Made a BIG difference with the wet heavy snow, especially on grades. I'd stay away from the ladder type because they tend to fall between the lugs. Those norse type diamond pattern would be the mercedes of chains but for $160 vs $500 I can make do with the duogrips!! FYI tirechains advised me I got the last set (in my size) and they wouldn't be getting more until next season. You can also consider modifying the ladder chains yourself. (Once you get a basic set you can use quick links and loose chain running down the center of the tire and attaching to the middle of each cross link. By doing this you could kind of make a cheaper version of the norse link style, just without the carbides (which you may not want on a paved driveway anyway since you'll do a hell of a job if you spin the tire)

 

[hayden]

Try to dig out as much as you can with the loader. The more the tractor is on hard ground the better off you'll be. Deep soft snow will get you stuck real fast, but once you scrape it down to get a solid surface for the wheels, I think you'll find you can plow through good chunks with the loader. Just keep pushingthe snow out of the way and off to the side.

Good luck,

Peter

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Dave,

Look at this way, at least it's not mud. Still looks like a new tractor. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Nice looking place also. I'll bet it's pretty in the spring and fall.

 

[JohnT]

Dave,

I run a NH FWD TC45D with hydro, R4's, FEL and 7 foot box scraper - no chains or tire ballast. This winter I ran it in 2+ feet of snow in the field and woods with no problems. You do need to clear snow with FEL whenever depth of snow meets or exceeds tractor ground clearance.

 

[Boondox]

Dave -- Is that where you're stuck? How deep is the snow under those tires? Granted you have no weight on the back of that baby, but have you tried laying pine boughs on the ground behind those tires for additional traction? The snow still looks fairly firm, and under those conditions I've gotten myself out of trouble several times using branches...

Pete in Northern Vermont
www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[DaveM]

Everyone- Whoohoo!! With alot of luck and a little elbow grease I parked the tractor in the garage about 1.5 hours ago /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif! I'll try not to ramble on too much.

Last night it still seemed hopeless w/o chains. I tried going forward and in reverse with no further progress than the night before. The top 2-3" was hardpack snow and below it was that slippery, granular snow I mentioned before. The snow shovel I took couldn't cut through the top layer at all. This slope is east facing and down wind so I expect this snow to stay around here longer than the hill top and the south facing slopes. This morning I went down with a stout garden shovel thinking I at least needed to get down to the ground for the first 8-10' The hardpack was now solid all the way down to the ground. It was actually 10-12" deep! With the shovel I was able to break away pumkin size "snow boulders". I then used the shovel to carve a gentle ramp from the ground to the top of the hardpack. Lo and behold I was finally able to get all 4 wheels on the slope with a few extra feet of cleared ground in front and away I went! The snow was so hard that I was riding on top now and the frozen tread marks from my trip down added something for the tires to grab on to.

Many lessons were learned and some of them weren't even tractor related! I think the eskimos have something like a dozen words for different kinds of snow. I just experieced the difference in at least a couple of them /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

Again, I'd like to thank everyone for their support, advice and opinions. Now I have some time to get a good set of chains which I will have BEFORE I go on any more "joy rides". /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Dave