KL120 Loader Flexing

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( But share with us your drink recipe. Obviously been having too much fun this morning. )</font>

Can't do it. I drank every last drop and then ate the recipe for kicks. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif And, the recipe didn't get caught on my toothbar.

 

[5030]

Steve:

Took a couple of minutes and tested the M9 with the LA1251 loader. This is a much bigger unit than what you guys are fooling with here, but I wanted to see just how much flex there was. It's not apparent in the cab at all but is when viewed from the front. I believe the QA is contributing somewhat. I can't get the tractor on a concrete surface, It won't fit in the pole garage, it's too big so I settled for the gravel drive and a level spot. I used a heavy cinder block so I have 12" of height. Actually, the weight of the tractor sunk the block somewhat so probably about 10". You'll get the idea.

Specs:
Loader:
LA1251 with QA and 84" bucket
ASAE Rated lift capacity: 2,755 pounds
Loader weight: 1984 pounds

Tractor:
M9HDCC3
Weight: 6175 pounds + Loader=8159 pounds (4+ tons)
3ph Cat II lift capacity at ends: 5560 pounds

I had nothing on the TPH and the brakes were locked.
I lifted the front wheels off the ground and you can see the flex. I'd expect some. This is a heavy (compared to you guy's) unit. However, the bucket at the opposite corner isn't touching the ground.

I have 41 hours on the unit, all FEL work including popping stumps last weekend and destroying my neighbors yard.

Yes, those tires are big compared to my old 5030. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[5030]

Here is another picture:

I took this one a little lower down so you can see the angle of the crossmember on the loader in relationship to the grille.

 

[5030]

Another one:

This is from the left side of the tractor so you can see the wheel is well off the ground. You can also see the bucket lip is off the ground on the right side.

 

[5030]

Another one:

This is the right side of the tractor looking across at the left wheel. You can see the bucket flex. I believe some of the flex is in the bucket itself and some in the QA. If you look back to the previous pictures, you will note that the loader arms are parallel to the tractor at all times. There is a lot of weight bearing down on the bucket and concentrated in the corner. You don't need a toothbar to dig with this puppy. Late last fall I dug a 8' wide x 8' deep hole in the pasture for an expected loss that never happened. That was in clay, but it seemed like sand.

This sucker is big. I worry about a nosebleed while riding so high. It rides like a car with the air ride seat.

My crossmember is like the 5030, round, with no interruptions anywhere. The hydraulic lines across the crossmember are solid steel lines. My 5030 had a cover on them , my M9 don't.

This loader has a cross bar right in front of the cab. If I remember correctly, the 5030 didn't. It's still a 2 pin loader though I haven't had it off yet. I will when I'm running the hay tools.

 

[KiotiJohn]

I worked the CK20 again today, taking out some more stumps, and using the toothbar to clean out roots roots and more roots, and load them for disposal, and just didn't have the time to take any pictures, but I don't really need the test to be able to detect the flexing.

I imagine that I would get the same results as Steve did on his were I to put a block right on the corner and power down onto it.

I'm not sure if this is good or bad, as I've said, the loader works great, and so far so good as regards the cracks, none.

I figure that some of the flex is coming from the natural spacing in the bushings in the loader. Of course, if they were completely tight, there would be no room for all that grease I pack them with!

Where the rest of it comes from, I don't know, and I hope it continues to not be a cracking problem.

Daryl aka 5030, that new tractor is just too nice. When did you get rid of the 5030? It didn't have a lot of hours did it?
John

 

[5030]

KiotiJohn:

I traded the 5030 in late last fall. I looked at Kioti's (there is a dealer in Manchester, Michigan about 30 miles from the farm). I even went there twice and fiddled with a DK65. I love Perkins engines. They are real fuel efficient and have a good torque rise (My 1085 Massey has a 318 Perkins) but the DK65 wasn't quite big enough in the PTO power department. I'm looking at a side mount hydraulic Woods ditch mower and a township contract for roadside and ditch mowing in the future in addition to making hay (so much for retirement).

Anyway, I listed the 5030 here on TBYNet classifieds, got a few bites, but nothing solid. Meanwhile I priced a NH TN90 against the Kubota and the Kubota came in at around 3K less and the NH was "A" plan.

I settled on the M9 because it's turbo'd and charge air cooled but I didn't want the new M95S. I don't particularly like the sloped hood. I ordered the M9 on Kubota's promo 4.99% plan in November last year. It came in in January and it's been here ever since.

It's way more tractor than the 5030 in every way including size and somehow, I wound up with the M95 engine. Funny thing, my wife is very intimidated by the M9 but runs the 1085 which is physically bigger than the M9. Both have the same size rears but the 1085 is TWD instead of FWA and no loader. Maybe it's the loader that bothers her.

If you look at my photo's you can see the apparent weight on the bucket. That is a HD bucket and if you look at the cutting lip, it's got a curve to the left as it takes the weight of the tractor. I was surprised it didn't crush the cinder block!

It's a beast with a flexible FEL.

I was somewhat disappointed when I heard that Kubota was discontinuing the M9000. I always considered the M9 to be the 4020 of the Kubota line. The M9 has been in Kubota's lineup for many years and has (in my opinion), been refined and improved to an ideal utility/ag tractor. I was just on Kubota's website and I see that maybe they had a change of heart. The M9 is still listed along with the 85 and 95 new style tractors.

John:
I'm sorry. I re-read yopur post and I forgot to put the hours in. The 5030 had 625 hours when I traded it. It offset the M9 at 24K

I considered changing my signature picture as well as my forum name but the 5030 picture looks like the M9 only I sit much, much higher and I've used 5030 for so long, I'll just leave it. Sort of like tradition. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Steve_Miller]

Daryl,
That things a brute, I could put my little Kioti in the bucket of that thing! Like someone else said, you need some dirt or dust on it to make it look more at home. As far as roadside mowing, do you need extra insurance to do that?. I know an older fellow who use to do it and the insurance (if I remember he said about $1500-2000 extra to cover for liability), made it not feasible to do unless he got 20 or more hours a week through the summer to make it a break even venture. The DOT (highways division) states that insurance is mandatory to be able to bid on the work.

John,
Your right, the test proves nothing, but it was interesting to see some results. It is something to watch for (the cracking). Did you notice in the picture Don posted that his loader has reinforcing around the access cover. I found that as maybe a suitable fix when the time comes.

Steve

 

[5030]

Steve:

Is that reinforcement factory or added?? All those hose ends in there, not much room for tightening up things.

You should have seen it last Sunday. I destroyed my neighbors yard popping stumps. It was covered in wet sticky goo. Couple of times I had to lock both diff's and even then thought I was getting the Massey to pull it out. It took 3 hours to get the mud and goo off.

Finally, yes, I need contractural liability insurance over and above the limits of my farm policy, but the contract is pretty lucrative. It's a 4 year contract and I calculate a break even in 2 years. Folks around here will do a double take. They are used to seeing only Deeres doing anything.

I think next week I'm going to borrow my other neighbors Michigan 12 yard articulated quarry loader and do the flex test on it. I have a chunk of 12" thick x 12" wide die plate that will stand the strain. The loader weighs around 35K and I can park my car in the bucket. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That will be the ultimate flex test.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I considered changing my signature picture as well as my forum name but the 5030 picture looks like the M9 only I sit much, much higher and I've used 5030 for so long, I'll just leave it. Sort of like tradition. )</font>
Hey, I'm glad you didn't change your name. I might not then have been aware, and wouldn't have been able to be civilized with you after such a long time since we loved to hate on another! LOL

I'll be keeping my name even if I buy another brand. After all, I can be obstreperous no matter what color I own, so may as well keep my first TBN handle.

Believe it or not, around here, I rarely see a Deere with the power cutters, you know, going around cutting limbs out of trees and majorly tearing up the roadsides? They are usually bit NHs. I see a lot of Deer on the interstates hogging though, and some Kubotas, but contractors around here seem to be favoring the NHs.

I understand completely about the DK65. You have to have what will do what you need it to. While the DK65 is a "hot" tractor to me, if it doesn't do the work you need, it's not too hot.

Anyway, I was surprised to see any flex in your loader, and still thing some of it comes from the articulations, bushings etc.

STEVE: I think I said that I'm not sure it proves anything, at least that's what I meant, and didn't at all mean to belittle your thread. I find it interesting, and only wish I knew more about engineering as regards loaders.

I haven't pulled my loader cover to see what's inside yet, but I see no cracks at the borders. I could see how a lot of flex could cause some cracks in that area, twisting right in the area of openness and just letting go.

I don't care what anyone says, steel of the like that used to come out of US Steel MFG was the best there was, and nobody makes it that way any more. The man I did a job for yesterday and today gave me an old Kerosene tank that I'm going to use for my diesel fuel. When we went to cut the legs at the ground, just beneath the surface, that steel was as shiny as the day it was made, and it had been in the ground for nearly 40 years.

The tank has no rust through, not even close, and the saws-all went through two new blades before we could get all 4 legs cut. Hard as steel as it used to be is no longer as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, we cut the legs because there was a 4" concrete pad holding it in the ground that we didn't feel like destroying.
John

 

[RedDog]

<font color="blue"> I believe some of the flex is in the bucket itself and some in the QA. </font>

And I agree!

While putting my tractor away today, I decided to do the flex. I did not take any photos, but it looked like 5030's. I had a 4x6 piece of wood with the 6" facing up, and put at the corner.

RedDog

 

[MotorSeven]

Steve,

sorry, i already posted on the other thread ref Bob's mis management of his blocks( /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). And after reading all these responses i am quite dizzy. I will run into the barn when i get to TN and "inspect" my loader..........!

RD

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Steve,

sorry, i already posted on the other thread ref Bob's mis management of his blocks( /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

RD )</font>

What is it pick on Bob day? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I don't see that on my calendar!

Seriously if you go back a page or two you'll see I did agree that my blocks were in the wrong place and I will retest. I was not able to test all weekend and I work late tonight but should be able to get out there Tuesday night to retest.

But in the interest of accuracy, we need to look at several things.
1) Any weight/implement on the 3pt hitch will act to lighten the front end using the rear tires as a fulcrum point so the test must be done without anything on the 3pt hitch.
2) We should measure the spread of our loader arms, wider spaced arms will exert torque twist differently than arms held closer to the center of the bucket.
3) We should measure the distance from the loader arm to the end of the bucket (see point #2 for similar logic)
4) Any QA system will add additional flex, so buckets with QA systems attached should not be compared to buckets that do not have a QA system
5) Buckets of different widths should not be compared each other. 54" buckets should be compared to 54" buckets. 60" to 60" etc.
6) We should compare loaders with similar # of hours (give or take 50?) to other loaders with similar hours because a new loader should have less play/slop/wear than a loader with 500 hours.
7) We should compare loaders with similar load capacity.
8) We should compare loaders with similar construction (curved arms vs curved arms, dogleg vs dogleg).
9) All tests should be done on a similar hard/smooth/flat surface (concrete or asphalt)
10) Comparing a loader with stress cracks to one that does not have stress cracks probably will show that the loader with stress cracks flexes more, but still won't give us any indication as to WHY the loader has stress cracks!


Now if we were to actually get some accurate results for each class/size/type of loader we could run a matrix and then we would have some real results. It would be interesting to see all that. I wonder if the moderators of the site would move this thread outside of the Kioti forum and into a general discussion area to get more participation?

 

[Steve_Miller]

John,
I didn't consider it belittling at all, its just one of those times where what I typed and what I meant could be taken a number if different ways. I seem to be proficient at that for some reason or other. Sorry.

Steve

 

[Glen_Ippolito]

Bob,
I disagree. I think a lot of people misuse toothbar's they are not for digging.... when I say digging I mean compacted dirt not dirt piles.
Thanks
Glen

 

[450EXC]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Tomorrow is race day. Our first enduro motorcycle race of the year with 74 miles in the saddle of a dirtbike. I'm getting geared up for that today.
)</font>

Could we take a short break for a race report?

How about it Highbeam?

Any mud over there?

What is the ratio of hight the front wheel is off the ground to the width of your smile? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[TBDonnelly]

<font color="blue"> Steve:

Is that reinforcement factory or added?? </font>

5030,

I'm not Steve, but I think you were asking about the attached picture from my KL130 FEL. The reinforcement is factory.

Don

 

[HODAK]

All good points Bob. Even on the same width buckets, you should have the same width block at the exact same point on bucket. Cracks? That is why I wash the tractor now and then. Gives me an opportunity to look everything over a little closer.

 

[Highbeam]

It was a day full of the beautiful smell of black organic mud burning on a hot exhaust pipe. The smell especially strong when the 300 lb bike, and 150 lb rider, are forced to climb a staircase of bare, shiny, wet roots after the 100 or so riders ahead chewed out any dirt between the roots.

The enduro is a timekeeping event where you get a list of times and corresponding mileages that you need to keep up with. The event guys made this a race of speed since only a bike god could keep up. By the end of 4 hours of 12-18 mph sections I was only 11 minutes behind the clock. Won't know the results for a few days but had a great time.

Lots of mud and lots of puddles with roots under the surface just waiting to kick your front wheel to the side for a not so gentle get-off.

Next weekend we go out to central washington (Odessa) for the Desert100 which is a real desert race. A mass start of several hundred bikes to see who gets across the finish line (100 miles later) first. Wide open sage and rocks type desert. Not a sand dune at all.

I did manage to stop on my way home from the enduro to plant 35 lbs of grass seed over a newly cleared wet area. The bare soil should be green in a few weeks and green is good.

 

[Highbeam]

TBDonnelly:

This is huge!!! I thought, and I think others thought, that your loader was beefened by you. What I am hearing is that this is in fact a redesigned Kioti loader, improved to add strength to the access hole. Are you positive that this is how it came from Kioti? and not a dealer addition? When did you buy your tractor?

This is very important since I will require that the replacement loader be the "New and improved" version.

Thanks