kioti warranty

[DrewL]

again, this is no reason for the dealer or Kioti to loose a customer over $75
other manufacturers have faced this thousands of times and I'm guessing other manufacturers saw the light and kept the customer happy..............especially over $75


or not.................keep us informed. This should be a no brainer

 

[Donnyj]

I'm having a hard time keeping my mouth shut on this one. I can't believe you were billed for the remaining balance on a warranty repair. I don't work in the tractor repair business, but I do work in the automotive business. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have lost my butt to a Ford warranty time. Next time I do it, I get faster at doing the repair. That my friend is flat rate pay. I can not imagine our dealership calling a customer and trying to get additional money from them on a covered warranty repair, except for maybe there deductible. I'm sorry, but I don't see how you are responsible at all. I don't even understand how you are liable. If the repair is not covered, sure you are responsible. How do you know how much time the dealer really had in it? We have to time punch every ticket. Ford requires it, the dealership requires it and it gives us something to show the customer if a repair happens to turn cash {cod} and we have to charge the customer. I have to ask. Is this normal repair procedure for the tractor repair industry? Is it just Kioti? I need to hear more about this. Somebody fill me in. I'm still shaking my head. What is the advantage of buying a new tractor? If I were you I know what would be in my local classified ads section come Monday morning...... Tractor For Sale!! Good luck to you. Please keep us up to date on this.

 

[NewToy]

Probably would be cheaper in the long run to grudgingly pony up the money instead of having to travel 70 miles to the other dealer. Sure goes against any warranty policy that I have ever dealt with, cars, tractors, motorcycles, lawn & garden equipment, etc. Most dealers would eat this cost to forge a good relationship with a customer. "Kio" hit it right that your charges are commensurate with the apptitude of the diagnostition. If you had ended up with a truly inept mechanic it could have been a $500.00 bill. Where do you draw the line?
Several different ways to look at this one.

 

[BigAl]

Hi Bob ,
Quote :<Jim, legally you have to pay the bill. Period. You had work performed, you got billed. If you don't pay it is very likely you will end up at the wrong end of a collection agency. >

I don't know about that . My warranty covers "parts and labor" . It doesn't say anything about The mechanic being "deaf, dumb or blind or only so many hours to fix something /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" . It says parts and labor are covered . Period ! There is no way I would pay that bill ! That warranty is figured in the cost of selling the machine . Why am I being asked to pay for something that the warranty says is covered . I understand that the orginal dealer is out of bussiness ,but that does not give any other dealer the right to back charge the customer because some " less than qualified mechanic /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif " could not find the problem . Maybe the dealers don't have to bust their hump doing the warranty repair work on a tractor purchased somewhere else but they signed a contract with the manufacture to agree to the conditions of selling their product and compensation for repairs . The manufacture is side stepping very nicely to say it is the owners problem and the dealer is sidestepping very nicely to say it is not their fault . If this is the way a Kioti dealer is doing bussiness than he should not be in bussiness in the first place . Good ridence !

If any Kioti dealer tried that with me ,I would shove that tractor where the light don't shine . I love my Kioti and I do my own warranty work if necessary . There is no dealer even remotely close to me . This was discussed and agreed to ,in writing,before I purchased my tractor . I have never filed any warranty claim as yet and the way it runs and works I don't think I will be . knock on wood ....
But I am kinda stubborn /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif and if in fact that is the way Kioti does bussiness ,I can guarantee you that come Monday morning there would be a new tractor from another manufacture sitting in my Garage . Oh... and the damage I would do bad mouthing the dealer and Kioti would never end . /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Mavrik02]

Bob,

I'm not sure I see the legal logic in your words.

For Jim to be leagelly bound to pay there must exist a "contract" between him and the dealer that includes Jim being liable for extra charges. The contract can be established many ways (verbal, written, etc.) but it must be established for Jim to have a legal liability to pay. In this case if Jim thought that the warranty covered parts and labor and the dealer didn't get permission to charge extra then I am willing to bet most courts will determine that no contract existed and that Jim is not liable for the extra charges. They will likely cite that Jim had a reasonable expectation not to have to pay and that the dealer should have established terms and conditions and gotton permisson to do the work before they rendered the service.

On the other hand if he reallllly need to work with this dealer then he needs to assess this from a relationship management point of view like everyone else (including you) have suggested. However in my opinion a dealer that would do this work and charge me without being up front with me about it before he did the work wouldn't get my business ever again.

 

[RedDog]

I wouldn't pay period!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif I don't care if it was $2, I still wouldn't pay!!

Just the thought of this is giving me a sour taste about Kioti. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

RedDog

 

[ToadHill]

To me an even more important question remains. If the valve is still leaking just not as fast, what is the charge going to be when this one fails. I'd pay the $75 when he had a valve in that didn't leak down. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[DK35vince]

Good luck finding a backhoe that doesn't leak down to some extent.

 

[Kiohio]

Like I said, You(dealer) have to explain yourself. It all depends on the problem at hand.
All garages go by flat rate manuals. The flat rate is exactly what it should take to fix it. I climbed all over a tractor for 2 or 3 hrs checking everything electrical. Found a plug in plain veiw that I happened to miss. It was the problem. I charged Kioti for fixing the problem not for my 2-3 hrs checking all the things it wasn't, just because I overlooked something. My fault, and I learned.
Warranty can become shrouded in mystery.
I have paid for more than one thing that I thought warranty should cover and didn't.
BTW it wasn't on a Kioti machine.
Some Dealers do sacrifice to give customers the results they deserve.
The problem with all warrantees in the "motorized world flat rate...where do you draw the line?

The customer shouldn't pay at all. I agree 100%

At the same time think of all the dealers, etc that can see this...
Unscrupulous ones can see Kioti will pay ANY amount of time you put into diagnostic etc
Next thing you know Kioti is being hit with alot more hrs to pay for than what they should....then what?

It is between Kioti and the dealer!
The customer should not be brought into this!

KO

 

[HODAK]

Vince - good point.

As for the warranty issue - PARTS and LABOR!!! That says it all. I would not pay a cent and this should apply to ANYTHING with a warranty, tractor, car, appliance, etc. Now, if the KIOTI warranty said that they cover parts and labor, but the dealer may charge extra because some can't diagnose as good as others, /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif that would be different. Again, it says PARTS and LABOR! Something is not right here. I don't think the majority of dealers operate this way and so far I haven't needed to find out /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I'd find another dealer. Thats simply unacceptable unless they explained this to you up front. There are alot of other places you can go where they intend to charge a fair price rather than suck every dollar from you.

 

[gamble77]

Yeah, we as dealers have to understand that sometimes "flat rate" will not equal "profit" for the dealership. Money can be made on warranty work, but all cases are not equal. The only thing I charge my customers with for warranty work is pick up and delivery. I tell them that the first pick up and delivery I will swallow but the second one is on them, and if they understand that from the start there are never any problems. We can't afford to run a 60K roll back & one employee down the road for free.

I have a tractor in the shop right now that is broke into two pieces and the damage is the customers fault, but FarmTrac has agreed to pay for it! FarmTrac has always helped us and my customers out with warranty, Kioti has too. I am even going to fix the tractor so this "accident" won't happen again...and that will be out of my pocket.

What really bothers me with this whole situation is that we are only talking about $75.00. As a dealer $75.00 is not enough to even worry about, much less pick a fight over! Now if we were talking about $575.00 I could understand, but gosh what is $75.00 in the long run? Especially if you treat the customer good, give him good service, he will be back in...mainly because you are the only game in town!

You should not have to pay the $75.00. I would call your dealer and ask him for the phone number of Kioti's sales rep in your area and see what he thinks of the situation.

 

[bncsauve]

In my opinion, Kioti is reponsible for backing up their warranty. How they deal with their dealers is their problem. If you notice, you can't buy parts directly from Kioti, but only through their approved dealer network. By approving their dealer network (read monopoly) they assume some level of responsibility for the performance of that network. I would expect that Kioti should be responsible for the difference with their remedy being to remove that dealer from their network.

 

[wallace]

Okay, I did not not want to get involved here but I can not stand it anymore. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

First off this matter DOES NOT DOES NOT have anything to do with Kioti.
Kioti does pay dealers troubleshooting time, if this dealer put down it took him 3 hours and he only got paid for 1 buy Kioti o-well next time he will know what is going on.

I am not the smartest out here but I will tell you this, if one of my guys or myself ran into a issue that we were unsure of instead of waisting time I am not proud I will pickup the phone and give the manufacture a call.
We also call just to see if this has been a issue, because keep in mind they deal with stuff like this every day.

Now I don't want to start a war here but Headackers if you priced shoped was this dealer involved?

Maybe the dealer is a little sour over this.

Well anyhow the damage is done or fixed I should say and a lesson learned about a dealer. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The only thing I have left to say is.... This is not a problem for KIOTI this is a problem between Headaker and his maybe new dealer.

 

[bluechip]

We have seen our Kioti sales grow during our first two years as a dealer, and I think the brand has great promise to continue to grow. Two years ago I had people stopping to look at tractors thinking they were some other orange brand because they never heard of Kioti, now people come by specifically looking for Kiotis.
It is true that any manufactures flat rate book is going to seem very unfair to the dealer at times. some of the times I see in there just don't seem possible at all, BUT I would never dream of billing a cusomter, other than for transport and with some manufactures, oils, etc. The reason flat rate exists is to equalize the playing feild for level of mechanic (sorry technicians) skill level. If a guy does a job (complete, diagnose,etc) and it takes him three times as long, he is only worth 1/3 the hourly rate, if he does it in twice the time, his is worth double! Sounds like this guy is trying to get double when he is worth half.

We have only had a very few warranty issues on kiotis and feel we are treated adequately. But even on non warranty work, I don't charge for too much "head scratching" time its my job to know, or have people to know what they are doing.

Kioti will have to raise the bar on dealer conduct standards if they want to get to the next level. If this dealer isn't happy with Kiotis warranty policy, he has to make a business decision wether he wants to stay a dealer.

This type of action reflects bad on the entire network, I hope those reading realize that not all Kioti dealers operate in this manner.

Even as a dealer, I say Kioti has a responsibility here and that is to maintain an acceptable code of business practices for all Kioti dealers, But at the same time must provide a fair warranty program.

I am located in a buyer's market when it comes to tractors, and I leave no money in the deal to subsidize warranty work. The warranty should be adequate to cover the costs and overhead of the job. This way it doesn't matter where a tractor is purchased, a customer will get good service by any branded dealer.

wow. gotta stop, cant solve all the worlds problems in one post /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only thing I have left to say is.... This is not a problem for KIOTI)</font>

It's not?! If the customer called the manufacturer and the manufacturer brushed them aside and told them that it is just an issue with the dealer, there is certainly a problem. Every manufacturer that grants a franchise that I am aware of would certainly be concerned about how their customers are treated by their dealers! You want to talk about killing a reputation, just let the little roadside dealers tick off your customers. That is a problem. By reading on this site, there is already a perception issue since Kioto has in the past been somewhat less than selective on who they will franchise. If you don't think customers who get shafted won't talk to other people... Whether they technically are right or wrong, haven't you ever heard that the customer is always right? I think saying that "This is not a problem for KIOTI" just shows a fundamental failure to grasp the real issue here.

One of my business partners was a franchising agent for Ford for almost 20 years. Besides the obvious, one of the biggest issues to approving a franchise application was how the prospective dealer was going to treat Ford's customers. Yes, Ford's customers. When you sell a new Ford, you represent Ford Motor Company. The same would hold true for dealers who sell new tractors. They represent the tractor manufacturer. I know that all auto manufacturers and most larger tractor manufacturers closely watch their CSI (customer satisfaction index). If a dealer allows that to drop too much, there will be all sorts of sanctions and could ultimately result in a franchise being pulled. Kioti makes way too nice of a tractor to have jerkwater dealers short change them and kill their reputation. Customer issues like this most certainly is a problem for them. Some people just flat do not need to be a dealer for them if they intend to continue their growth pattern. As someone else mentioned, just call the regional Kioti sales manager and ask him about the situation. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't just brush it under the rug and say that it's not his problem.

As a business owner, I realize that I can't make money on every single thing I do. It would be nice to do so, but it is irrational to even think I will. My reputation is much more important to me than $75. I wouldn't consider such a thing. As a matter of fact, I love it when someone competing with me makes such a bonehead decision. Their customers soon become my customers. Unless you are in a very unique business, others will be offering the same thing you offer. Your service and reputation is the only thing in the long run that makes you different. Every one of my people know that is how I run my operation. Therefore, every one of my customers know that is how I run my operation. If his dealer is hitting him up for $75, I personally think it is a bad business decision and I wouldn't bet on that dealer being in business over the long haul. My opinion is that is a bad decision on his dealer's part. But to say that it isn't a problem for the manufacturer, that would just be incorrect.

* I just saw bluechip's post. That is exactly what I'm talking about. He is a dealer who sees things exactly the way I do. He is a dealer that I would do business with. Not because of any one particular issue, but because of how he sees the importance of reputation for both the dealer and manufacturer. Not everybody can be a dealer for a first class manufacturer. Some apparently need to be culled from the network.

 

[depratt_equip]

All I'll say is I have done warranty repairs on tractors that I did not sell... Some I ended up eating a little labor.... won't happen if I do that same repair again. Kioti will reimburse for diagnostic time but only a reasonable amount and the dealer needs to know how to properly write it up on the request in order to claim diagnostic time... you have to be very specific about the steps you performed and did...

I feel the dealer should have told you before it went in the shop that you may be charged for some, I make it a point to tell all my customers when they will be charged. I do not however charge a dime on warranty repairs unless there is a deductible.

I have gained customers with this policy….

 

[wallace]

I can not see how some people think this has to do with Kioti.

Kioti paid the allowable time on this warranty.

If the dealer could not complete this in the allowable time then that is the dealers problem.

 

[ocaj11]

It's Kioti's response that I CAN NOT STAND. Why would they risk the happiness of a customer for $75.00?? That decision has already done way more harm than it would have for Kioti to call the dealer and work it out. This is just flat bad service from both sides. It's the reputation of Kioti, not the dealer, that is being tarnished in this thread.

The warranty is for parts and labor from any dealer in the network, right? Does the warranty explain that you must return your tractor to the dealer you purchased from in order to get good service? This was a perfect opportunity for this dealer to pick up a satisfied customer and he blew it. Kioti could have offered a helping hand. They blew it.

Simply Unacceptable.....

 

[gamble77]

Agreed Wallace. Kioti Corporate has paid their part, they have given the dealer the amount that they give all dealers, no more no less.

What should be done however, is what I suggested in my first (or second really) post on this subject...the customer needs to call the territory rep, explain the situation, and let him handle the dealer. Corporate Kioti will do nothing more than they have already done and they should not be expected to, the dealer rep on the other hand can look into this further and figure out exactly why this dealer is wanting $75.00. I would even bet the dealer rep would frown heavily on this practice.

All problems are solvable, you just have to go through the right avenues to solve them...and in this case the right person is the territory rep.