Kioti or Kubota

[Gittyup]

I keep hearing people talk about weight. I had to buy a smaller tractor to go along with my tractor because it is flat out too heavy! When you buy a tractor that is heavy, you have no option of removing the weight. I won't by a tractor again that limits me so severely when I can use it in my yard. I'll take a lighter, and just as strong, tractor any day and add weight if needed. Pure weight as a reason for buying a tractor is buying into what the person selling that tractor has sold you on. It's not a viable reason, it's a spin used by the salesperson. It really does severely limit your options. Also, why do you think the cheapest Chinese tractors are some of the heaviest?? Think about it. Also, unless you're buying Chinese, I think we've put these $6000, $8000 cheaper for the same thing claims to bed. About 5 years ago I shopped Kioti against Kubota. In my area the Kubota was less expensive than the Kioti! That made it a no-brainer decision for me. I'd have gladly paid more for the historic reliability and durability of the Kubota along with the far superior resale value. Costing less just made the decision process a simple one.

That's fine for your case, but no universally true. For me there was thousands of dollars difference, as it has been for others too. And Kubotas and Deeres were much less tractor, in my opinion.

Adding weight to the rear or front or wheel weights isn't exactly the same as a purely heavier tractor, not to mention that all those add-on weights aren't exactly cheap. What does a thousand pounds cost you, including brackets? Sure, you can make your own weights, but I don't want to bother. Nor do I want to have to store and try to move them. I prefer not to have to add anything I don't have to. But that's just in my case. Everyone's needs and wants are different. But, having the weight in no way necessarily means that somehow the steel is inferior. Sure there have been some Chinese makes that use bad castings and poor quality steel. It's just wrong to lump everything into one category. Korean steel, for example, is considered to be among the best in the world, bar none these days.

 

[art]

That's fine for your case, but no universally true. For me there was thousands of dollars difference, as it has been for others too. And Kubotas and Deeres were much less tractor, in my opinion.

Adding weight to the rear or front or wheel weights isn't exactly the same as a purely heavier tractor, .

That is correct!!!! A purely heavy tractor that has the weight in the wrong places burns more fuel and is just not as economical to run! A purely heavy tractor gives up performance having to carry the extra weight all the time not just when it might be needed.

 

[Gittyup]

That is correct!!!! A purely heavy tractor that has the weight in the wrong places burns more fuel and is just not as economical to run! A purely heavy tractor gives up performance having to carry the extra weight all the time not just when it might be needed.

I'll keep my weight anytime and burn the extra $0.50 in fuel to have the weight there for my convenience, where I want, when I want with nothing extra to buy, store, or install. When I want a lawn mower, I'll get on my lawn mower. I wouldn't even think about using my tractor to mow the lawn. That's not its purpose. Others might use theirs for mowing, and should then consider weight. But, for those of us who don't, or who only use it for bush hogging, being light is no advantage. That's just a false truth that the K & D dealers like to push.

Way too much emphasis is given to fuel consumption anyway. For the average user, at something like 100 to 200 hours a year, it doesn't amount to much. Maybe $30 a year or so, and that's being generous at 100 hours. Certainly not enough to even come into the buying decision process. And if I'm operating a backhoe, setting stationary, how is my weight causing me to use more fuel? I might actually use less fuel, because you can be more efficient at digging when heavy enough to put all the power to the ground. Fuel consumption only makes sense for those putting several hundred hours per year on their machines. The problem is that once you get past the dealer support issue, Kubota and Deere can't really argue they are better. All that other stuff is a real reach. Spec for spec, dollar for dollar K & D aren't as good. Not to leave NH out. They are the same too.

 

[Dargo]

Korean steel, for example, is considered to be among the best in the world, bar none these days.

I assume that's a joke? They are the world's best at recycling steel. They are the best at that, and that is a good thing. However, with much of their steel having previously been a ship or a tank or whatever other large piece of steel they can get for scrap, I most certainly would never consider Korean steel as a high grade steel by any standard. However, when they use more, to provide the strength they need, it's not necessarily an issue.

Still, it is a pure fact that I cannot use my heavier tractor many months of the year due to it's weight. Unless you are pure agriculture or loader work, excess weight you cannot shed is a detriment.

 

[Gil Case]

Dargo- are you suggesting that BOF steel is better (i.e.stronger?) than EAF steel?
If so you are mistaken, as a general rule , BOF is used for sheet goods due to rollability and EAF is used for structural items such as steel beams & rebar due to its superior strength.
How you relate this to tractor parts is up to you.
I think the point is more plastics used in Japanese production.
Both Japan and Korea are heavy into EAF due to their limited availability of iron ore. China is another story entirely.

 

[Gittyup]

I assume that's a joke? They are the world's best at recycling steel. They are the best at that, and that is a good thing. However, with much of their steel having previously been a ship or a tank or whatever other large piece of steel they can get for scrap, I most certainly would never consider Korean steel as a high grade steel by any standard. However, when they use more, to provide the strength they need, it's not necessarily an issue.

Still, it is a pure fact that I cannot use my heavier tractor many months of the year due to it's weight. Unless you are pure agriculture or loader work, excess weight you cannot shed is a detriment.

No joke. I stand by it. Read the reports out of the steel industry. Korean steel is considered excellent by those who know steel, recycled or otherwise.

I have no need to put my tractor anywhere it can't go due to weight. And this hasn't ever stop me from doing what I need to with it because its weight won't let me use in certain weather conditions.

If you can't use yours certain months of the year, maybe you need a lighter tractor (now this is joke).

 

[Mousefield]

I assume that's a joke? They are the world's best at recycling steel. They are the best at that, and that is a good thing. However, with much of their steel having previously been a ship or a tank or whatever other large piece of steel they can get for scrap, I most certainly would never consider Korean steel as a high grade steel by any standard. However, when they use more, to provide the strength they need, it's not necessarily an issue.

Still, it is a pure fact that I cannot use my heavier tractor many months of the year due to it's weight. Unless you are pure agriculture or loader work, excess weight you cannot shed is a detriment.

That's why people buy different tractors; it's what they need for their particular use and ground conditions. One size or weight does not fit all and never will.
Perhaps you need a lighter tractor for those many months you can't use :confused2: your heavier tractor. Sounds like your heavier tractor is not sized/weighted for the correct application and/or ground conditions.

 

[TBDonnelly]

I keep hearing people talk about weight. I had to buy a smaller tractor to go along with my tractor because it is flat out too heavy! When you buy a tractor that is heavy, you have no option of removing the weight. I won't by a tractor again that limits me so severely when I can use it in my yard.

Maybe you just need to relocate to higher, dryer ground......

-or-

A rice paddy tractor with the paddle wheel tires might fit the bill. :laughing:

Don

 

[Dargo]

If you can't use yours certain months of the year, maybe you need a lighter tractor (now this is joke).

I did. I have a lighter tractor that gets used more than the heavy tractor. It has much more versatility and can be setup for more applications. That's why I said if I had to buy just one tractor, it certainly wouldn't be the heaviest one I could find in any size class. Using the simple Ben Franklin side by side chart, there are many more positives for the lighter weight tractor than the one that is hampered by always being heavy. I have both and know this is a fact.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I did. I have a lighter tractor that gets used more than the heavy tractor. It has much more versatility and can be setup for more applications. That's why I said if I had to buy just one tractor, it certainly wouldn't be the heaviest one I could find in any size class. Using the simple Ben Franklin side by side chart, there are many more positives for the lighter weight tractor than the one that is hampered by always being heavy. I have both and know this is a fact.

This is a fact for you and your circumstances. Not everyone has the same conditions, I know for a fact that a lighter tractor would have been a poor choice for me and my working conditions and what I need to get accomplished.

I think that most all of us have our own individual situations and conditions to deal with. It is foolish to think that what positively works for one person and their conditions is simply fact for someone else and their situation.

 

[Dargo]

I think that most all of us have our own individual situations and conditions to deal with. It is foolish to think that what positively works for one person and their conditions is simply fact for someone else and their situation.

I agree. That's why if I only had one tractor there would be no choice. I'd buy one that can be heavy when needed and lighter when needed. I'd not box myself in to something that is not flexible in the way it can be used.

 

[crazyal]

I'm not sure why you guys are arguing over Koren steel quality. Unless you know what Kioti specifies in it's alloys it's pointless to talk about it. Tools from China aren't junk, tools with a poor choice of steel are junk.

I use to do work for a large valve company. I inspected numerous valves from most parts of the world. I can't say any came from Korea though. I would have to say India was the biggest. Of course with it's ship breaking and lack of any regulations or worker protections it's no wonder.

Usually there were two reasons why a part was made with thicker steel. One was because it was rated for higher pressure. The other was it was a lesser grade of steel and needed to be heavier to be equal strength to a more robust alloy.

 

[Gittyup]

All good points. I just want to add that the Kiotis are heavier, at least in part, because they use bigger front and rear ends. It's not that they necessarily use thicker steel (which they may or may not be), but they are just much bigger all the way around.

I was at the JD dealer yesterday picking up some parts and took a good look at their 2720. Nice little tractor. But everything about it was smaller than my CK25, from the axles to the 3PH, to the fenders and tires. Some plastics where the the Kiotis use steel too. Then when you look at the specs, the CK out specs it accordingly: weight, hydraulic pump, lift capacities. Almost like the CK is just in a bigger class. I've been looking at the 2000 series JD as I'm considering "down sizing", replacing two tractors with one. But, everytime I look close at them they are too big for ideal mowing and not big enough for serious ground engagement. So, I come back to deciding to keep what I have: a good mower and a good digger. I come to the same conclusions when I look at the Kubota B's and BX's. There's no one ideal tractor that can do it all with excellence.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm not sure why you guys are arguing over Koren steel quality. Unless you know what Kioti specifies in it's alloys it's pointless to talk about it. Tools from China aren't junk, tools with a poor choice of steel are junk. .

Exactly.

Recycled steel is not the issue either. Apparently about 95% of the structural steel (most critical strengthwise) used globally is recycled. About 30% of rolled steel is from recycled material too. And, the largest Korean steel maker is not only number three or four in the world volumewise but they also operate a joint venture with US Steel in California. Doesn't sound to me like a fly by night operation.

Finally, steel import patterns are pretty wild. Korea imports some steel from Japan, some from China and exports to both markets too. You'd really need to do an analysis of exactly what steel in what component came from what manufacturer to make any comment on tractor steel quality.

 

[Yota_85]

Back to the original poster's question:
I have owned both a Kubbota B7610 24hp and a Kioti DK35se.
The Kubota is a great machine. It is phenomenal in performance for that size machine.

The Kioti has been great so far. It is much heavier than my B7610. It is truly a beast. (put 350 hrs on kubota compared to 90 hrs on the Kioti.)

Slight issues I have with the Kioti........ Trim not quite up to snuff compared to the Kubota. Still great, just very little things...paint imperfections, stickers funky, rattles on ROPS . Also, the Grand L compared to the the DK series, Grand L is superior. But 3-5 K more. The dual 3-speed tranny (6-speed) of the Grand L is superior to the DK tranny. I miss that EVERY day on my hilly property. Med is too slow, and High wont move on the hills. So I have to shift gears constantly with my DK. I thought getting a HST meant NOT having to shift gears. Also, I bent my bucket edge in less than 40hrs on the DK. My bucket looked (almost) new on my Kubota B7610 when I sold it. And I beat the crap out of that bucket. Not sure what's up there. Maybe I grabbed a rock the the wrong way with my DK, but donno? Not sure if the metal on the Kioti is inferior to Kubota's or not.

However, I did choose the DK over my obvious upgrade to a Grand L.
I did so because it was a solid machine for 4K less, though if I had the extra 4K I woulda got the Grand L

Kioti offers great tractors for much less $$$
For example, for the same $$$, I'd take my DK35se over a Kubota B2630 any day. Not even a fight. However, not sure you can put my DK35se and a Grand L-3940 in the same league. Of course, we all have pretty shallow pockets, so the bang for the buck factor ranks very high, as well as reliability and parts availability. And for that, Kioti is king of the hill.

 

[art]

Back to the original poster's question:
I have owned both a Kubbota B7610 24hp and a Kioti DK35se.
The Kubota is a great machine. It is phenomenal in performance for that size machine.

The Kioti has been great so far. It is much heavier than my B7610. It is truly a beast. (put 350 hrs on kubota compared to 90 hrs on the Kioti.)

Slight issues I have with the Kioti........ Trim not quite up to snuff compared to the Kubota. Still great, just very little things...paint imperfections, stickers funky, rattles on ROPS . Also, the Grand L compared to the the DK series, Grand L is superior. But 3-5 K more. The dual 3-speed tranny (6-speed) of the Grand L is superior to the DK tranny. I miss that EVERY day on my hilly property. Med is too slow, and High wont move on the hills. So I have to shift gears constantly with my DK. I thought getting a HST meant NOT having to shift gears. Also, I bent my bucket edge in less than 40hrs on the DK. My bucket looked (almost) new on my Kubota B7610 when I sold it. And I beat the crap out of that bucket. Not sure what's up there. Maybe I grabbed a rock the the wrong way with my DK, but donno? Not sure if the metal on the Kioti is inferior to Kubota's or not.

However, I did choose the DK over my obvious upgrade to a Grand L.
I did so because it was a solid machine for 4K less, though if I had the extra 4K I woulda got the Grand L

Kioti offers great tractors for much less $$$
For example, for the same $$$, I'd take my DK35se over a Kubota B2630 any day. Not even a fight. However, not sure you can put my DK35se and a Grand L-3940 in the same league. Of course, we all have pretty shallow pockets, so the bang for the buck factor ranks very high, as well as reliability and parts availability. And for that, Kioti is king of the hill.

Alright so at forty hours you bent your bucket on the kioti and have lowered the value for resale as well as hindered the ability to grade well unless you have had it fixed! COST
You have settled for less convience as you have to keep shifting the kioti when the kubota wouldn't need to be. inconvience? cost, and time?

On the parts availabilty for the kioti? How many parts have you needed in ninety hours to claim they have a good parts system? cost, inconvience?

I keep seeing less of the four thousand dollar difference the more the two are compared!

Ah, I have some customers that we take care there 8N fords and farmall cubs, they are very happy to use them and pay the repairs and use them from time to time with out a payment at all. So to speak! They have paid for several with some of the repairs! They know the tractor, know what it is and how to operate them. Do they take longer to do the work, yes! Do they talk of the effort to operate them, yes they do. They also know they can't do what many of the new tractors can. They have made the choice to kewep what they have with it's short comings and not change.

When you look at the posts here, and think that Kubota has about 1/3rd market share in this country and has for thirty years and kioti has? 5 maybe 10 tops and in just the last 15 why are there so many repairs, updates?

The difference is what you really need and how you want to do it and when you want to pay! It can be up front, or possibly never end.

 

[DK35vince]

The reliability on my Kioti DK 35 has been excellant for me so far.
In 9 years and 1440+ hours I have replaced a tachometer cable ($8) and a fuel filter bowl ($10). I'm still even running on the original battery.
Hard to do much better than that.
No sign of any wear or weak areas anywhere on the tractor.
Still looks and performs like new.

 

[IslandTractor]

Alright so at forty hours you bent your bucket on the kioti and have lowered the value for resale as well as hindered the ability to grade well unless you have had it fixed! COST
You have settled for less convience as you have to keep shifting the kioti when the kubota wouldn't need to be. inconvience? cost, and time?

On the parts availabilty for the kioti? How many parts have you needed in ninety hours to claim they have a good parts system? cost, inconvience?

I keep seeing less of the four thousand dollar difference the more the two are compared!

Ah, I have some customers that we take care there 8N fords and farmall cubs, they are very happy to use them and pay the repairs and use them from time to time with out a payment at all. So to speak! They have paid for several with some of the repairs! They know the tractor, know what it is and how to operate them. Do they take longer to do the work, yes! Do they talk of the effort to operate them, yes they do. They also know they can't do what many of the new tractors can. They have made the choice to kewep what they have with it's short comings and not change.

When you look at the posts here, and think that Kubota has about 1/3rd market share in this country and has for thirty years and kioti has? 5 maybe 10 tops and in just the last 15 why are there so many repairs, updates?

The difference is what you really need and how you want to do it and when you want to pay! It can be up front, or possibly never end.

Art, you are getting kinda loose here with your logic. First, anyone can bend a bucket. There have been very very few reports of that with Kioti's and I'm sure we could find a few Kubota's with bent buckets too. Gotta think about denominator not just a case report if you are interested in making statements about the incidence of a problem.

Same goes true for what you refer to as "so many repairs, updates". There are lots and lots of problems, failures and repairs not to mention updates (plastic fenders on a BX or PTO on a L2800 anyone?) on Kubota's as well. You cannot seriously make a comment about reliability of either type of machine based on TBN reports. Kubota and JD buyers are more likey to be looking for a turn key solution and would go directly to their dealer with a problem. Kioti owners do not have the dealer network that Kubota or JD have so more owners do their own maintenance and hence post questions on TBN looking for advice.

Denominator Art, Denominator.

 

[ethiojazz]

So I am not sure we are helping anyone except stating some hard held dogma's.

Here is what I know... Kubota's are good tractors... the newer ones and the ones especially targetted to the "luxury" market are no different than the Lexus vs Toyota... I truly believe there are differences in the "features" sure.. But this is not comparing a farmall to a new tractor... that I think definitely misses the mark...

GL series are I am sure great tractors... But a tractor is a machine of utility as I previously stated, So does the 2 stage hydro work better than a three range hydro on a DK? sure... is it worth 4K? personal decision...

 

[gauthier]

Buy Kioti cause thats what I have and I'm smart:laughing: