Kioti or Kubota

[JoelD]

Interesting how the article is silent to Bobcat.
Joel

 

[jimmyj]

I just read this thread - I have been avoiding it for fear of "partisan" opinions. A pretty good read all said. RSKY, what have you decided?

NOTE: It seems like these sorts of discussions will become harder and harder to have in the future as over time the boundaries become so blurry as companies intermingle technology, sourcing and so on.

I think Microsoft owns all the tractor companies anyhow!:confused2:

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

Interesting how the article is silent to Bobcat.
Joel

I would guess because KIOTI Tractor is a division of Daedong Industrial-USA and Bobcat is a customer of Daedong and is cosidered seperate. Bobcat helps them spread their manufacturing cost over more tractors built and also the Bobcat name carries alot of weight with professional landscapers and contractors in the US. Kioti market covers hobby farmers, small production farms, then contractors and landscapers.
I do like that Daedong is verticaly intergrated with it's manufacturing. Not many tractor companies are still practicing that. Kubota is verticaly integrated as well. John Deere has done both, farm out and build their own. CNH does both, Agco, Mahindra and many others.
From a lean mfg stand point having control of all major componets helps control cost, inventories and quality. You are more in control of revisions of componets and problem solving of problems. It doesn't guarantee succes as you still have to build a product people want.:thumbsup:

 

[kco]

Interesting how the article is silent to Bobcat.
Joel

I think this may just be stating Hoosier's view in another way but, mentioning Bobcat would be a dis-service to the Kioti dealers. Since Bobcat is more widely knowm it could divert sales to Bobcat from Kioti. That would not help building the Kioti brand.

My dealer (a new, small dealership) did not mention the Bobcat connection. I imagine they see the possibility customers may go with Bobcat because of a potentially deeper support network.

Again, in line with Hoosier's view--hobbyists might even feel intimidated by a more "heavy duty" supplier such as Bobcat. When looking in the "Reviews" section of this site a year or so ago I saw Bobcat listed and did not even consider reading the reviews. It was not until I read in these discussions that Bobcats are Kioti's that I became interested. I also became much more comfortable with Kioti because of the Bobcat connection.

I wonder from Bobcat's point of view that they prefer not to point out the Kioti connection because of potential "hobbiest" connotation.

It's best for both to simply stress their own brand.

Another interesting point in the article was Brown's statement about emphasis on the 30 to 40 hp line. I wonder if there is a possibility Kioti may get out of the larger HP models. I notice Bobcats models end at 50hp.

 

[bluechip]

My take is that Doosan/Bobcat is a competitor to Daedong USA/Kioti. Its a separate channel so no reason at all for KIOTI to promote Bobcat at all. Stay tuned, there is another channel coming.

 

[tulenutn2o]

My take is that Doosan/Bobcat is a competitor to Daedong USA/Kioti. Its a separate channel so no reason at all for KIOTI to promote Bobcat at all. Stay tuned, there is another channel coming.

Hey Chip, when will we be hearing about that? Any specifics? 155 hrs on the DK45S now. Can you believe I am dreaming about my next Kioti? Good to see you on the forumn again.

 

[bluechip]

Daedong will be making the compacts for McCormick, 4 models. Most have heard that New Holland has switched from Shibauru to LS, I think 4 models here too. Now Daedong has acquired Shibauru's tractor product line... moving production to Korea....

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

Availible in orange, white and now red. Cool!

 

[RSKY]

WELL

Didn't think about this thread going this long when I started it last year. Have been away from the forum for a while but am back for now.

Things didn't work out as I planned. I am not retired and working six days a week on the afternoon shift. Leave home at 1:00 in the afternoon, get back at midnight. No time to play or work at home on anything.

So what did I buy.

I bought my wife a 2011 Honda Pilot SUV in June of 2010.

Got to keep the wife happy!!!

I researched the small and mid-sized SUV's just as I was researching the tractors and the deciding factor was the ability to place our granddaughters car seat in the middle of the second row and still have room for someone to sit on both sides.

But I have a framed picture of a Kioti DK20S on my desk.

 

[TractorTidy]

Wow, I couldn't begin to read every response but skimmed over many. I personally would like to put in a good word for Kioti. I am a relatively new Kioti dealer having taken them in April of this year. I am not the "fly-by-night" type dealer that maybe Kioti went to years ago and I see them trying to get away from that more and more. In fact I am a former Deere dealer who got caught up in Deere's consolidation 4 yrs. ago.

If the one guy sees Kioti dealers disappearing, it could be the company cutting substandard dealers or that the dealers were too small to succeed.
Kioti is wanting to build a better dealer network w/ stronger dealerships.
The day of the little guy operating out of his garage or a building on his farm off the beaten path are going away. Yes, many of the guys that didn't want to make money but just move iron have since vanished. You've got to make money to survive.Profit is not dirty, it is MANDATORY to survive.

I took Kioti because I consider them #4 or 5 (if you count Massey) of the top manufacturers and in fact I can outsell Kubota and New Holland on value, durability, weight and loader capacity as well as dependability. I REALLY like the Kioti brand. I have sold 8 tractors in 8 mos. in a brand new market. Not bad for a new start and a JD dealer 1 mile down the road.

I also looked at Massey, but their and my expectations were too different plus they are way too expensive to do business with plus their $8500 sign.

Yes, Kioti has signed an agreement w/ Argo to produce some models of McCormick and they aqcuired the "subcompact" line of Shibaura and yes, now LS (Korea) will be building New Hollands. Watch though the dependence on Bobcat. That was a 3 yr. agreement which expired this last summer and to my knowledge has not been renewed. So Bobcat tractors may be no more at least by Kioti. Bobcat just cut the heck out of pricing because maybe they weren't real successful in the compact market. To sell, they had to cut price and no one wins then, just the consumer. Not that the product was not good, but because Bobcat is known for skid loaders and the construction market not tractors and the consumer market. I'm sure there were some exceptions though.

So, I think Kioti is a very legitamate brand and is definitely up and coming. Just watch them grow in the next several years and the way to help them grow is for you readers to promote and buy the brand. Just look at the Korean car makers.
So please support Kioti and give them a good look, I think you be glad you did.

 

[Mousefield]

TractorTidy, Looks like you are talking yourself into trading in your JD 3203 for a new Kioti. :licking: :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

TractorTidy, nice to have you aboard.

I appreciate your perspective as a new Kioti dealer with lots of industry experience. Your point about Kioti's efforts to prune it's dealer network of the backyard low volume dealerships is at least partially on target. That some pruning was necessary is true and I imagine Kioti has accomplished that. However, many of us have seen another side of Korporate Kioti that suggests the leadership is composed of bean counters more than good customer focused businessmen. As many of the TBN Kioti owners will tell you, we have experienced very fine dealerships, not side of the road farm sideshows, essentially being pushed out of their dealerships by rigid Kioti policies. It doesn't help the brand to have excellent dealers terminated or put into untenable business situations by Kioti. I've purchased two Kioti tractors in the past five years and both dealerships were pulled out from under me by Kioti. One was a very decent dealer and the other was frankly legendary here on TBN. My point is that you will find that the Kioti owners here are very very positive about their tractors and the vast majority like their dealers but you will not find a lot of love or admiration for the US Kioti corporation here. I wish you best of luck with your new enterprise.

 

[TractorTidy]

Well, time will tell on how I view Kioti corporate, however; I think I've experienced the worst in corporations having been w/ Deere and being pushed out. Why do you think I'm Kioti now?

I think if there have been past problems w/ Kioti corporate, I would hope those things would be improving. If you perform and and are in an area where a dealer is needed, I would hope there would be no problem. We'll see I'm sure.

As far as my 3203, one of these days when I can afford. I have a lot of upgrading to do since all my equipment is Deere.

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

Well, time will tell on how I view Kioti corporate, however; I think I've experienced the worst in corporations having been w/ Deere and being pushed out. Why do you think I'm Kioti now?

I think if there have been past problems w/ Kioti corporate, I would hope those things would be improving. If you perform and and are in an area where a dealer is needed, I would hope there would be no problem. We'll see I'm sure.

As far as my 3203, one of these days when I can afford. I have a lot of upgrading to do since all my equipment is Deere.

Welcome aboard! How far from Indy are you?

 

[gerard]

Don't look for the rated lift capacities of a loader but the amount of lbs at breakout! That is the only tell tale you will have as to when you have a full load unless you have a scale handy! You might not find so much of a difference at this point as many bring up!
Best part is you can feel it! The next part is balance!

Not sure I understand this post. I thought breakout was a function of the curl cylinders when "breaking out" while digging, while lifting capacity was the weight the loader can lift. Two totally different things and measured on two different sets of hydraulics. I lift large hay bales (750-800 lbs) so to ME lifting capacity is important as I stack them two high and need the capacity to get them up here. Am I looking at "breakout force" incorrectly?