3-Point Hitch Kioti KB2085 Backhoe Attach Point

[Four20]

Hello, sorry if this has been answered before. I have a 2003 Kioti KB2085 backhoe attachment with subframe and self contained hydraulics. It is made by Rhino. It is on a 2003 Kioti DK35. My question is, even though it is a subframe mount backhoe, does it use just the 3-point hitch toplink as a sort of brace to keep it from flexing when you get a really good bite? There is a cover in-between your feet that covers the hydraulic oil reservoir tank. Under that cover, and just above the tank is what looks like an attach point for the top-link turnbuckle. Should I hook up the toplink turnbuckle to that attach point? I took a couple of pictures to help clarify what i'm asking about. Many Thanks!!

 

[DK35vince]

I have the same tractor and backhoe.
I never hook up the top link. It is not needed if you have the subframe.

 

[Four20]

Hi Vince, thanks for the reply. The reason I was asking is because when I get a really good bite, my seat will flex 1" - 2" and I hear loud pops. I know you welded bolts or something on your subframe, but I don't have a welder. Would it hurt my tractor if I hooked it up? If not, which toplink mount on the tractor would I use? Also would it be a special turnbuckle because of the long length. I also have T & T like you. Thanks again.

 

[DK35vince]

Would it hurt my tractor if I hooked it up?

I don't see what it would harm to hook it up. Its worth a try, maybe it will help..

which toplink mount on the tractor would I use? Also would it be a special turnbuckle because of the long length.

Can't answer that since I have never tryed to put a top link on there to see how it works/fits.

 

[wallace]

It does not list to do that in the installation manual.
If you are getting that much movement I would check for loose nuts and bolts or possibly even a broken weld.
Keep in mind that the backhoe is not a ridget mount to the tractor so you will get a little movement.
Have someone stand beside you and watch the subframe move while you put down pressure on the backhoe and they will have a good view on what is moving.

 

[Four20]

Thanks Wallace & Vince, I will have someone stand around & see what's moving. It has always moved when under alot of pressure. I just thought it was the nature of the beast until I noticed the "unused attach point". I was thinking that more bracing couldn't hurt, but I remember back a couple of years ago to that picture on TBN of the Kubota with the broken upper 3 point housing from a 3 point hitch backhoe. On my unit I think it is the actual subframe that is flexing from the exceptional power of the backhoe. Do self contained hydraulic units have more power than quick connect powered units or vice versa? Thanks.

 

[DK35vince]

Do self contained hydraulic units have more power than quick connect powered units or vice versa? Thanks.

It should make no differance in power.(PTO pump vs tractors hydraulics)
The backhoes relief valve is set at around 2100 PSI, a PTO pump or the tractors hydraulic pump should produce more pressure than that.
So the backhoes relief valve is the limiting factor here as far as power.

 

[depratt_equip]

do not hook up that top link when using a subframe backhoe..... it will make it to rigid and break something... trust me....

 

[DK35vince]

do not hook up that top link when using a subframe backhoe..... it will make it to rigid and break something... trust me....

Thanks Jon for the info.

 

[DIRTCUTTER]

Ck30 hst I just noticed that one of the two pins used to secure the backhoe subframe to the tractor was sheared off. The dealer has replacements, but is there something I kind use in the mean time. He told me this was happen alot.

 

[Four20]

Thanks Jon for the advice. The attach point will stay unconnected. I didn't think about it making it too ridgid. I'm glad I asked about it before actually doing it & breaking something!

 

[dfkrug]

Keep in mind that the backhoe is not a ridget mount to the tractor so you will get a little movement.
Have someone stand beside you and watch the subframe move while you put down pressure on the backhoe and they will have a good view on what is moving.

What? I suspect that Kioti INTENDs for their subframes to be rigid
mounts to the tractor. Movement of the hoe independent to the
tractor (occurs with lots of subframes out there) is due to flexing of the
steel and/or wiggling of the pins. The most rigid subframes use a lot
of steel, and bolts instead of pins. Instead of bolts, some integrated
TLBs use a complex mechanical linkage that takes up pin slack so it can
be mounted quickly but not suffer from pin wiggle.

Having someone watch for flex while operating the hoe is how to best
see where the problem is, I agree. Works for loaders, too.

 

[Four20]

So dfkrug, do you think the attach point needs to be hooked up?

 

[dfkrug]

So dfkrug, do you think the attach point needs to be hooked up?

Some subframes make use of the existing toplink attachment point on the
tractor. It seems at least the Kioti 2375s I have seen do not. If an unused
toplink attachment is available under the seat of the hoe, it could provide
a more rigid attachment to the tractor. I differ with Depratt on this one....
I think a more rigid attachment is better for the tractor, hoe, and subframe.
His statement is quite a surprise to me.

If there are any official written statements by any of the CUT manufacturers
stating that more rigidity is bad, I would like to know. It is possible that the
Kioti engineers designed the subframe to flex, but I doubt it. Anyone?

 

[laurencen]

My thaughts are flexing is better than ridgid as it will absorbe shock, my CK20 backhoe flexes lots, I welded the plates and mounts on the subframe as the bolts allways came loose, Not sure if they would have designed it this way, had it been too flexible the subframe would have bent perminently, the subframe does look a little light but as most on this forum we would build heavy not engineered

 

[dfkrug]

It is really a matter of cost. I have been reassembling my Kubota B21
after a complete rebuild, and I just remounted the backhoe subframe.
This is a 2000# tractor, like the CK20, but it is designed with backhoe
use in mind. I do not expect to see ANY visible flex with this tractor.
That said, I have spent 2 hours getting the B21 subframe on, as it requires
exactly 50 grade 8 bolts to attach to the engine and rear axle areas.

 

[VictorW]

I have a KB2375 for my CK30hst. Yes, it does flex and an extra attachment point would be nice but I don't think the 3pt mount on the tractor is strong enough to handle the load that could be put upon it from the bh.

 

[dfkrug]

I have a KB2375 for my CK30hst. Yes, it does flex and an extra attachment point would be nice but I don't think the 3pt mount on the tractor is strong enough to handle the load that could be put upon it from the bh.

Well Woods and others have been building backhoe subframes for a long
time, and their older style features a similar setup to that used by Kioti's
2375 on the CK30, yet the Woods subframes utilize the toplink connection
to further stiffen the hoe attachment. I have attached a typical older
style Woods subframe shot, this one is for a Kubota L3010. The ruggedized
toplink can be seen, along with a fairly beefy ladder-style subframe. Woods
has been gradually moving towards more rigid subframes....their 4-pt
style, but the older style is still sold.

As another illustration, Kioti's 2376 hoe has a more subtantial subframe
than the 2375's, but it only fits one Kioti tractor.

Although I do not favor using hoe attachments on CUT 3-pt hitches, using
a rigidly mounted lower subframe PLUS a beefed up toplink is a proven
and common method of attachment. I have not heard of any broken
tractors using this method yet.

 

[Four20]

Thanks for the input and photo. I was also wondering if the toplink attachment needs to be special like the one in that picture. That looks like a really stout subframe too.

 

[VictorW]

Although I do not favor using hoe attachments on CUT 3-pt hitches, using
a rigidly mounted lower subframe PLUS a beefed up toplink is a proven
and common method of attachment. I have not heard of any broken
tractors using this method yet.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure the back end of the tractor can handle the load but the top link mount itself on the CK30 just doesn't look that strong. It's bolted on well but the flanges appear a little on the thin side. That's the only part I was questioning.