International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going

[FlyFishn]

Ive been back at it this weekend. I got the start and ignition circuits re-wired.

The ignition coil has power to it.

I wired the ballast resistor in the circuit as described in the schematics.

The spark plug wires and coil to distributor wire needed replaced. So I went to a parts place and picked up a set. It says "points compatible", however thr wires have between 5-20k ohms resistance. They are not copper - they are some kind of composite.

I will do some more work today - like cleaning the spark plugs a bit and firming up the plug wire connections to see if that will get things to "go". However, I am not too sure on the composite "wires".

I did polish up the points etc a bit too.

Thoughts?

 

[DJ54]

I'm not fond of composite wires but that's me. NAPA has a kit you can make your own, cut to fit, and put ends on. Just remember to slide boots on first. Some silicone spray helps them slip right on. Since you already have them, might as well run them and see how long they last. If they ever give up the ghost, find a set of copper core. I have a couple tractors here with copper core wires that have been on for 40 & 50 years. Still going strong.

 

[FlyFishn]

Here are some more pictures from this weekend.

This weekend's progress:
Ran new wires to new key switch - starter and ignition
Ran new spark plug wires between distributor, ignition coil, and spark plugs
Cleaned all contacts/points in the ignition circuit

I put a resettable 10a fuse on the battery side of the key switch so all the new wiring is protected with it.

I did not mess with the alternator. At some point I will need to wire that, and the voltage regulator, back up to the battery but I didn't mess with it at this phase.

Ignore the wire colors. I used what I had. I did label things as I went, but the colors aren't of much meaning.

Where I am with it is I am not getting power to the spark plugs. The breaker contact sparks when we crank it. I had an indicator light that I put in line with one of the plugs and it only faintly dimmed when I blocked the light and got it as dark as I could see it. When I grounded out a spark plug outside of the cylinder (without the indicator light - straight plug wire only) there was no spark.

So at this point we are down to replacing the distributor guts.

After striking out at 2 auto parts places in town we got a lead on an old equipment shop further out that might be able to help us.

We did swap the 12v ignition coil to see if that would help, but nope. The place where the machine is right now had several of them around (they work on old cars). I still think the original one we had off the machine is still good - just the condenser and breaker contact/lifter are what need replaced.

Thoughts?

Also - a bit of a bone head move - I took pictures of all the stages of the distributor coming off. That saved me initially with clocking it after cleaning the contacts. However, when I pulled it off later to take it with us (after cranking it to try it) I did not do the same - I just took it off. So now I don't have a visual way to clock it back to how it came off. I'll have to find some other method. Hopefully one that doesn't require taking the rest of the tractor apart to get to see marks on a gear I can't see unless I take it apart?

 

[DJ54]

Pretty easy to do, but you may have to remove the white side panel on the left side to see them. There should be 2 timing marks on the crankshaft pulley. First mark should be the advance mark, second one should be TDC. From the front, engine should turn clockwise. If you can find those marks, it'd be an idea to mark that second one with a white mark, either chalk, or paint pen to make it permanent. There should also be some sort of pointer mounted on the timing gear cover.

Remove #1 plug (plug closest to the front) with a finger over the hole bump starter until you feel compression. You may be able to bump the starter a couple times to get it closer to TDC or turn by hand to get the second mark aligned with the pointer.

Might be an idea to pull the dist. cap before doing so and note rotor button rotation. Some turn CW, others CCW. This is important when installing plug wires.

Pull distributor (I'm assuming this has a 2 lug connection into the timing gears) and engage distributor with rotor button pointing to #1 cyl. on the cap. On a 4 cyl. #1 is top right looking from the back. A mark on the outside of the distributor lining up with #1 hole on cap. A felt pen is quickest/easiest. On most 4 cyl. distributors the top 2 holes should be pretty close to being level/straight across. Distributor should engage lugs pretty close to this location. Snug bolts just tight enough to secure, but still rotate the distributor.

At this point, turn ignition switch on. With #1 plug grounded out on block, rotate distributor slowly until you see a spark, or hear it snap. Snug distributor down and turn off ignition switch. You should be at dead nut TDC.

Noting rotor button rotation, check plug wire installation by rotation 1-3-4-2. It should be close enough to start/run. From that point, you'll need a timing light to set the advance, have no idea what that is, but should be in your service manual.

Looking at the picture showing the cap & wires, it looks to be 30º to 45º out of time. Stud from coil should be sticking nearly straight out. You may want to try dressing the points, re-gap, dress the rotor button, and definitely check the lugs inside the cap. They can get a buildup from ionization and cause a weak spark or miss-fire. You can scrape that off with your knife to get by for now.

As for points & condenser I'd highly suggest either OEM, or a set from NAPA (Echlin). I've seen numerous threads and experienced it myself on a Ferguson 35 I recently acquired. The rub blocks have a tendency to bend/wear after a while changing the points gap. It was so bad on this Ferguson you had to really look close to even see them moving.

One other thing, a short screw starter w/magnet is a very handy tool for installing points & condenser to get all of the screws started. Once started you can snug with a stubby screwdriver. On some models the oil filter canister is pretty close to the distributor and a long screw starter won't quite fit. One with a magnet on the other end comes in handy when a screw comes off and if you're lucky drops to the bottom inside the distributor. It does happen.

 

[FlyFishn]

I got a tip from a friend that has been bouncing some ideas off another guy he knows that works on old tractors also that Tractor Supply may have some "tune up" or "refresh" kits for various ignition systems.

It appears they have one for some early IH machines. See link. From the parts I have - it does appear this will work. The cap and the points look very very close, if not identical. However, the kit shows it goes to 1962 model years - our machine is a 1968.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tisco-master-tune-up-kit-1238096

 

[DJ54]

I believe this is one of the brands I mentioned where the quality may be questionable. Not sure if TSC sells any other brands though. I have read in numerous threads where the rub blocks get soft and bend after running a while, but not sure how long. I did have that experience on the M-F TO-35 I acquired last Spring. The rub block appeared to be softened by the grease you get in the small capsule to lube it.

For giggles I ran the part numbers using the Case/IH online parts store and actually other than the spark plugs, the OEM set is less expensive, being you get the spark plugs (Autolite 386's) through and auto parts stores. Advance, or Auto Zone has them for $2.49 ea. Good ole' Wally World has them for $1.98. A set of 4 at TSC alone is $34.99 which is ridiculous. I also checked Rock Auto and they have a really good price on the 386's for $1.01. ea, but shipping would bite you there for one set. Being I have 10 tractors that use that plug, I'm tempted to buy a couple boxes myself.

Bane Welker at Plain City shows having tune-up parts in stock, although they have superseded part numbers. Case IH | BREAKER | 407018R91 | MyCNH US Store

As mentioned, you can call them and set up a credit card account, and they will ship to you. Here they ship UPS and usually have it in a day or two depending on what time of day you call. With gas prices bouncing around you can't hardly drive to get parts for what they can ship for, unless you need them asap. If I'm in a pinch like with hay down, and rain in the forecast yeah, I'll make the trip.

It's not so much on the price, but quality. Tough to beat OEM parts, at least from what I've gotten in the past, but it's been years since I've bought a tune-up kit. Last set I put in one of the Super C's has been 8-10 years ago. But had a new set in the parts cabinet for in case something happened when making hay, which is what happened. I did get a new set to replace them, but costs have gone up since then like everything else.

But get what feels right for you, I'm just speaking from past experience.

 

[FlyFishn]

Well I ordered all the parts for the distributor (cap, condenser, rotor, points). The dealer had 2 of them and 2 had to be ordered. We should have them by the end of the week. Overall they are about $105 minus plugs. The kit from TSC with plugs is $70. So they are a good bit more expensive for OEM's, but we need the machine as reliable as we can get it so I think the extra is worth it here.

 

[FlyFishn]

being you get the spark plugs (Autolite 386's) through and auto parts stores. Advance, or Auto Zone has them for $2.49 ea. Good ole' Wally World has them for $1.98. A set of 4 at TSC alone is $34.99 which is ridiculous. I also checked Rock Auto and they have a really good price on the 386's for $1.01. ea, but shipping would bite you there for one set.

The plugs I have now are Champion UD16's. Is there any merit to sticking to the same? Switching to the Autolites you mention? Or something else? On my small engines I am converting to NGK ruthenium's as they are supposed to be better for natural gas (generator engines). But other than that, in a gas engine I'd think a plug is a plug for the most part.

 

[DJ54]

Well I ordered all the parts for the distributor (cap, condenser, rotor, points). The dealer had 2 of them and 2 had to be ordered. We should have them by the end of the week. Overall they are about $105 minus plugs. The kit from TSC with plugs is $70. So they are a good bit more expensive for OEM's, but we need the machine as reliable as we can get it so I think the extra is worth it here.

Prices must be different than what is posted on their site.

 

[DJ54]

The plugs I have now are Champion UD16's. Is there any merit to sticking to the same? Switching to the Autolites you mention? Or something else? On my small engines I am converting to NGK ruthenium's as they are supposed to be better for natural gas (generator engines). But other than that, in a gas engine I'd think a plug is a plug for the most part.

The only problem I've had with Champions is they will carbon up after running a while due to a coating they put on at the factory, at least they did. We had a member of the tractor club that was a mechanic for South Central Power, he told us to get a sandblaster style plug cleaner, clean them up and you'll not have any more problems, unless you're burning oil bad. He was right, I've been running the same set of D-15Y's in my one Super C for 20 years and it gets used maybe 50 hours a year, just enough I change oil in the Spring. While I'm at it, I pull the plugs clean, re-gap and reinstall. Just preventive maintenance I do on several here in the Spring when it's too muddy to do anything else. My go to tractors for most chores here. When I go to use one, I'm 99% sure I can get on anyone and go do what I need to do.

I bought my cleaner from TP Tools here in Ohio 40+ years ago, and still use it. I didn't mount it to the wall, although you can. I use then put back in a tool cabinet to keep it clean for the next time. I think I gave $10-$11 for it then, they're around $33 now. Mine had paid for itself many times over.