Buying Advice In search of a sub-compact tractor

[paulfun9]

Not at all Paul. Why would you think that? I thought my posts on this thread were crystal clear for why I listed 3 manufacturers and not 1 or 8. I don't consider kioti at the Kubota/Massey-Iseki/Yanmar level given the OP's situation as described for geographic location and issues and sub compact theme.

So Paul . . you must already know how many Kioti dealers are within a 200 mile radius of his remote Canada location that makes you think it should be considered. So how many 5 paw kioti dealers are there in that radius to elevate consideration to top tier status Paul ?

I deliberately focused on three manufacturers and not 1 because the OP deserves our best efforts rather than personal brand loyalty . . . in our local U.S. areas. Heck, I'm in Wisconsin and did not consider Kioti because the closest dealer is way too many miles away and any others even 50% farther are still the same operation with branches in tiny towns.

I can purchase from farther distances . . and I did . . but unless you have no choice . . I want backup choices too.

So Paul . . how many Kioti dealers in the OP's radius to justify your recommendation ?

First off I don't have any brand loyalty! Second I don't think he will need a close by dealer with any tractor except for a John Deere as my experience with them is has not been the best at all and most of my friends and family have given up and switched brands even with having their new Kubota, LS, kioti and Massey dealers at a much farther distance to them than JD Third I read your post in the middle of the night and questioned you not him on your insight based on what seemed like the fact that you left out a very well respected engine builder who also makes their own tractor
So since I wasn't giving him advice but rather actually asking you a question there was really no need to be so pissy with your reply! But then again I forgot the general attitude of the poster I was asking a question to and now realize I should have never taken you off the Ignore list. However that will be remedied in short order after I complete this post.
In general for the record with any tractor except for JD, I would not care if the dealer was within a thousand miles as I doubt he will need them for the exception of some mail order filters and such!

 

[Trials]

Trails, I don't think that factory is going to do our friend much good. (See below)
...

maybe he can get a good job there.

 

[paulfun9]

Hi Paul...as a long time "looker" as hopefully by spring an owner...I have been attracted to the Kioti product partly from reading many posts from satisfied owners here on TBN. My problem is that the closest Kioti dealership is 200+ miles from where home base is. Also, they have not done much in my state to add new dealerships.

Are you aware how active Kioti is in adding new dealerships??

I have considered asking the Bobcat/Kubota dealership (30 miles) what he is doing to continue to service the Bobcat/Kioti SCUTS and CUTS he sold under the Bobcat brand. I actually don't think he sold very many but likely just handles service as he needs to. Wish Bobcat had stayed in the Kioti private label game.

The other factor is that I will likely rely whatever dealer I choose to do most of my maintenance...at least the first round. Also, a couple of Kubota and John Deere dealers have a service route where they will schedule planned maintenance with a fairly moderate "on sight" charge. I will likely do that so I can watch and learn as best as I can.

I have slightly considered LS as they have established a dealer about 100 miles away...but it is kind of a secondary product to the new dealer and pretty sure the service could not match Kubota/Deere.

Well TBN posters have sold me on Kioti as a very viable product...not sure Kioti has done what it needs to do to create a quality convenient service network? In my case I will not be a "self sufficient" owner Thanks...Tom R

Sorry I am not aware of any improvements in dealer network that they may have. Seems like they could do a lot better in adding quality dealers.

Not considering yourself a self sufficient owner and planning to have most maint done by the dealer is definitely a good reason to have a close dealer. One option that lots of folks have around here is the little repair shops that are around They in most cases are much closer than any tractor dealership and will come right to you to do regular maint and minor repair if needed.

 

[AxleHub]

A more credible and reasonable answer to the point would have been, "Paul I missed that, good to know".



It is a disservice to the OP to start a brand war in every thread.

Jenkinsph,

I've deliberately been posting about a group of manufacturers . . Not about a specific brand.

I've also tried to use the OP's commentary as a basis.

Why should I respond that l "missed something" that I didn't miss relating to Kioti?

Its hard enough for a new prospect to go from lawnmowers in a foreign country to interest in sub compacts without focusing on a brand in an area where posters don't know which brands are both available and well supported. Which is why my grouping rather than a brand. So I figured Paul knew something about that area that I didn't. So I asked.

My concept is we shouldn't be making it harder for new prospects . . But making it easier.

 

[AxleHub]

This is one of my biggest concerns and why I am trying to start now. As the CAD just took a nose dive, it is likely that the next factory order of tractors will cost say 5-10% more. Any old excuse

North,

Check makes a good point about currency valuations. Personally I've not thought sub compacts or small cuts reduce in price at the end of the calendar year . . but rather more promotions in March and April. However recently I've been surprised at some of the quotes I've heard from TBN posters who just bought or bought in Nov. and Dec..

Most of the bigger names ship to Georgia from overseas for any final assembly or more minor production activities.

Do you or others know if there is a port entry location/destination in Canada similar to Georgia for the U.S.. I would think thete would be as they would be able to advantage their situations better without "pass thru" the U.S.. and its higher currency valuations ?

 

[jenkinsph]

Jenkinsph,

I've deliberately been posting about a group of manufacturers . . Not about a specific brand.

I've also tried to use the OP's commentary as a basis.

Why should I respond that l "missed something" that I didn't miss relating to Kioti?

Its hard enough for a new prospect to go from lawnmowers in a foreign country to interest in sub compacts without focusing on a brand in an area where posters don't know which brands are both available and well supported. Which is why my grouping rather than a brand. So I figured Paul knew something about that area that I didn't. So I asked.

My concept is we shouldn't be making it harder for new prospects . . But making it easier.

Why mention brands when a more helpful discussion would be the size and implements needed first?
The OP hasn't really discussed his needs and intended uses fully. That would help with others suggestions on sizing and implements needed. Getting the right size machine(s) is a lot more important than which brand he chooses.

I will readily admit I have had good service from Deere equipment and like them. But that might not be the best way for the OP to go, may work out great, may not. I have seen that a lot of Deere owners have moved towards Deere specific forums and see a decrease in threads here. I prefer to read about all the brands as there are lots of good tractors being discussed. But getting the right sized machine is still much more important than what brand you buy.

 

[plowhog]

I recently went through this very same search and evaluation process. One decision I came to is that the SCUT market is fairly mature, and there are many good choices to make. In fact, the market is mature enough that the manufacturers are having to scramble to find features to differentiate their product vs. the competition. So, I came to believe that many SCUT tractors will do an excellent job for my needs. I do recognize some have features that are unique or missing in other products, but all in all, for my needs, probably any SCUT would provide good service.

Another limiting factor is the lack of realistic trials on my property, as no SCUT dealer was willing to trailer one for me to try. Another limit was inability to compare side-by-side. I drove a Kubota BX. And a Deere. And a Kioti. And a Massey. All on different days, on different lots, without the benefit of doing same day same location test drives on multiple models.

I chose a Massey Ferguson GC1710. Some folks would likely throw tomatoes at me for making such a foolish choice, others providing applause. For me, I just liked the Massey better. And with my belief that any choice would serve me well, that is what it came down to. I did not ignore the dealer support and proximity issues, but I also didn't assign a lot of weight to that either. If I need tractor service, I will get it-- whatever it takes.

Good luck with your shopping and decision. Shopping was fun-- owning is even more fun!

 

[sd455dan]

(full of stuff, eg. trees, stumps, logs, dirt, cleared brush, etc. eg. when the lawntractor is replaced)
4. Removing trees/clearing brush
5. Landscaping (reshaping land, moving rocks, logs)
6. Replacing a couple culverts
Less likely, but possible:

-Digging an outhouse

-Digging a septic tank
-Building a garage
-Building a cottage


I read some of the things you need to accomplish and it looks to me as if you may possibly be better served with 2 machines- maybe a new 4x4 small cut or scut and possibly a good used full size backhoe or even a small excavator... maybe one of the second 2 choices could be rented for the larger jobs??

 

[Trials]

… port entry location/destination in Canada similar to Georgia for the U.S….

That would be Vancouver B.C. which is more than four and a half thousand kilometres to the west of us, unless you take a shortcut through the U.S. :|

 

[northtractorsearch]

Some people have asked me a couple questions about my thoughts. Overall I am definitely leaning towards the 2 machines or 1 + contract/rent approach, with the small (SCUT or CUT) being the choice for now.

I examined the used market as much as I can and I shall continue to watch it. For the most part (in my opinion anyway) it does not seem like a used small tractor would be the way to go. They seem to hold their value well enough that I think I may as well go for a new one and avoid any issues with an unknown machine. Time permitting I am going to try to get to my nearest Kubota dealer tomorrow in person. I will at LEAST give them a call, as well as Kubota North, the 2 most likely dealers I would deal with for Kubota.

 

[wcampbell47]

I re-read your wish list of things you want to do. I bought my first 21 hp Kubota thinking that would be all the tractor I needed. 4 wheel drive, front loader, pto and 3 point hitch. I did a lot of cleanup, mowing and gardening. I bought a 32 hp with same equipment to do more serious work - like moving truck loads of material and grading driveways. I wanted the tractor to be light because I work on a lot of yards. Both were B models. Recently I traded the B3200 for an L3901. A little more weight but a lot more tractor. I am still on a lot of lawns with no detrimental effect. I remove the FEL to do mowing. Makes the tractor more maneuverable and lighter. The L model is way better for grading roads and drives than either of the B models. The thing is I never thought I would need a bigger tractor. I have not regretted moving up in power - just regret I did not buy the L model to begin with. But then I did not know how big my tasks would become. I still have my 21 hp B7510 and use it to mow with a mid mount mower. I say this is my lawn mower on steroids. I moan and groan every time I think I need to remove the MMM or put it back on. Getting too old to do that often so I turn to the L39 with a 72" 3 point mower. The L39 handles my 60" brush cutter much better than the B3200. If it is in the cards to do some septic system work in the future I doubt that the B model will be up to the task or will struggle. My B3200 handled a 4 foot concrete culvert, but just barely. The L handles them much more easily. The B7510 is 48" wide, the B3200 was 54" wide and the L3901 is 58" wide. I have no regrets on being 4" inches wider. The L3901 is less than 400 lbs heavier than a B3350. Just thought I would give some real world experiences with different sized tractors. Don't get me wrong, I did some serious work with the B models - but the L model is very sweet. It is 4WD, HST and I have added the cruise control option for mowing. The operator's station is much more comfortable than the B's and I can stay on the tractor for 5 or 6 hours without getting to beat up. Strongly suggest you sit on different models and compare creature comfort as well as mechanical attributes.

 

[drajj5]

Hello everyone,

This is going to be a bit longer than I think I would have intended. I have posted a short version if you cannot go in depth, but I value your opinion, as I am certainly a novice.

Short version:

I am looking for sub-compact tractor, valuing long-term reliability/repairability and versatility for small jobs around a 20 acre cottage property that has not had any "outdoor" (or indoor )maintenance in my adult life. I feel as though I need something that can lift more than 1 30-year old man and 1 60-year old man. What I would REALLY like, would be to have someone say Subcompact Kubota vs Deere Vs MF vs NH vs etc. for various tasks, like a consumer reports, but I cannot find one. While it seems like there are a lot of 1v1, there is not much 1v1v1v1v1v1 that I can find.


Foreseeable Frequent Tasks:
A list of the projects that we may end up doing in order of frequency/likelyhood are below:
1. Mowing (I have read a few threads here that say you probably shouldn't mow with a TLB, but right now we use a 30 and 15 year old craftsman in tandem)
2. Forking pallet-like objects - actually 80lb 2'x6'x2" trex dock boards
3. Towing a trailer (full of stuff, eg. trees, stumps, logs, dirt, cleared brush, etc. eg. when the lawntractor is replaced)
4. Removing trees/clearing brush
5. Landscaping (reshaping land, moving rocks, logs)
6. Replacing a couple culverts
Less likely, but possible:
-Maybe snowblowing in the future?
-Digging an outhouse
-Clearing a driveway
-Digging a septic tank
-Building a garage
-Building a cottage

QUOTE]

I typically don't comment on the:" Which tractor to buy Threads"... but want to comment on yours- odd. Perhaps it was the 2 guys lifting heavy objects you commented about, that struck home to me.

Personally, I can understand that you want more versatility than those old faithful Craftsman lawn tractors you are currently using. You want to take the second person out of the equation and be able to perform more tasks on your own without the use of - a sometimes non-existent (helping hand). I understand completely...... You will receive lots of advice here; a good thing, but ultimately the choice of choosing a tractor is yours to make.

I will base most of my, "advice" on your short version quoted above. Sub compact tractors will do far more than you thought possible, way more work than those Craftsman lawn tractors - Period. They have loaders, back hoes, snow blowers, and endless attachments to serve one purpose; to make your life easier. I "think" any manufacture that produces these types of tractors today are......are, close to 'on par' with one another. Regardless of brand, their loaders will lift more than you and another person could, and their 3pt hitch will adapt to lots of implements equally. Small and nimble, "like a lawn tractor" they should have no trouble navigating walking trails and if you get it stuck; much easier to extract because of their weight. If you decide that this fits your situation, go try one on and take the plunge. The tires on these tractors are close to the same size found on your current lawn tractor.

If you "step up a size" such as my Mahindra Max 28, the tires are a bit larger and will offer more ground clearance. I think the Kubota B series has tires equivalent to my Max. This type tractor has a higher lift on the loader, and has a larger 3pt hitch for cat 1 attachment's. I guess because they are taller and wider this tractor will accept a broader array of (stuff ) you can mount out back.

Lastly if you bump to what I call a "normal tractor" the rear tires are much larger than the two previously mentioned. Lots of folks here use these and are quite happy, however getting down to lake though a 'walking trail' isn't gonna happen. But with a tractor like this you will certainly make the trail larger to sustain it - the fun part! Size of this tractor would be an Kubota L series.

In summary I think you would find useful; anything larger than the Craftsman you currently own. Certainly a loader attached, and a back hoe. Yes a back hoe, to break up stubborn ground, dig an out house, plant footers, install underground water pipe/electric wire. The uses go on and on.... I find my tractor falls short some days and exceeds my expectations on others, (There is no perfect tool for the job, but any tool certainly beats nothing).

Good luck

 

[check]

Some people have asked me a couple questions about my thoughts. Overall I am definitely leaning towards the 2 machines or 1 + contract/rent approach, with the small (SCUT or CUT) being the choice for now.

I examined the used market as much as I can and I shall continue to watch it. For the most part (in my opinion anyway) it does not seem like a used small tractor would be the way to go. They seem to hold their value well enough that I think I may as well go for a new one and avoid any issues with an unknown machine. Time permitting I am going to try to get to my nearest Kubota dealer tomorrow in person. I will at LEAST give them a call, as well as Kubota North, the 2 most likely dealers I would deal with for Kubota.

nts, another consideration when comparing a BX25 with a B2650 is that, suprisingly, with the ROPS up the B2650 is shorter (78 1/2 inches) than the BX25 (86.2 inches). So, do you have a garage, and if so what is the clearance under the OH door? (I made my garage door higher than normal, in order to accommodate my BX25 without folding the ROPS down every time.)

 

[check]

I re-read your wish list of things you want to do. I bought my first 21 hp Kubota thinking that would be all the tractor I needed. 4 wheel drive, front loader, pto and 3 point hitch. I did a lot of cleanup, mowing and gardening. I bought a 32 hp with same equipment to do more serious work - like moving truck loads of material and grading driveways. I wanted the tractor to be light because I work on a lot of yards. Both were B models. Recently I traded the B3200 for an L3901. A little more weight but a lot more tractor. I am still on a lot of lawns with no detrimental effect. I remove the FEL to do mowing. Makes the tractor more maneuverable and lighter. The L model is way better for grading roads and drives than either of the B models. The thing is I never thought I would need a bigger tractor. I have not regretted moving up in power - just regret I did not buy the L model to begin with. But then I did not know how big my tasks would become. I still have my 21 hp B7510 and use it to mow with a mid mount mower. I say this is my lawn mower on steroids. I moan and groan every time I think I need to remove the MMM or put it back on. Getting too old to do that often so I turn to the L39 with a 72" 3 point mower. The L39 handles my 60" brush cutter much better than the B3200. If it is in the cards to do some septic system work in the future I doubt that the B model will be up to the task or will struggle. My B3200 handled a 4 foot concrete culvert, but just barely. The L handles them much more easily. The B7510 is 48" wide, the B3200 was 54" wide and the L3901 is 58" wide. I have no regrets on being 4" inches wider. The L3901 is less than 400 lbs heavier than a B3350. Just thought I would give some real world experiences with different sized tractors. Don't get me wrong, I did some serious work with the B models - but the L model is very sweet. It is 4WD, HST and I have added the cruise control option for mowing. The operator's station is much more comfortable than the B's and I can stay on the tractor for 5 or 6 hours without getting to beat up. Strongly suggest you sit on different models and compare creature comfort as well as mechanical attributes.

Excellent post, wc - and nts, note as well that the B3350HST and the L3901HST are almost the same price. (A bit of a surprise to me - I wonder why?)

(Later: I looked at the kubota.ca website again and noticed that the B3350 is a "deluxe" model, whereas the L3901 is an "economy" model, so you will have to check out the exact details of the features, etc. to see what the deal is. Also, make sure to compare the lifting capacities of the B2650, the B3350, and the L3901, both in terms of the PTO and the FEL - the results may surprise you. Finally, it seems that all 3 of these tractors use the same BH77 backhoe.)

 

[buickanddeere]

Something from an estate sale with a Tier II or earlier engine and a few hundred hours on the clock.

 

[Grandad4]

I typically don't comment on the:" Which tractor to buy Threads"... but want to comment on yours- odd. Perhaps it was the 2 guys lifting heavy objects you commented about, that struck home to me....

Excellent commentary!

 

[northtractorsearch]

I typically don't comment on the:" Which tractor to buy Threads"... but want to comment on yours- odd. Perhaps it was the 2 guys lifting heavy objects you commented about, that struck home to me.

Personally, I can understand that you want more versatility than those old faithful Craftsman lawn tractors you are currently using. You want to take the second person out of the equation and be able to perform more tasks on your own without the use of - a sometimes non-existent (helping hand). I understand completely...... You will receive lots of advice here; a good thing, but ultimately the choice of choosing a tractor is yours to make.

I will base most of my, "advice" on your short version quoted above. Sub compact tractors will do far more than you thought possible, way more work than those Craftsman lawn tractors - Period. They have loaders, back hoes, snow blowers, and endless attachments to serve one purpose; to make your life easier. I "think" any manufacture that produces these types of tractors today are......are, close to 'on par' with one another. Regardless of brand, their loaders will lift more than you and another person could, and their 3pt hitch will adapt to lots of implements equally. Small and nimble, "like a lawn tractor" they should have no trouble navigating walking trails and if you get it stuck; much easier to extract because of their weight. If you decide that this fits your situation, go try one on and take the plunge. The tires on these tractors are close to the same size found on your current lawn tractor.

If you "step up a size" such as my Mahindra Max 28, the tires are a bit larger and will offer more ground clearance. I think the Kubota B series has tires equivalent to my Max. This type tractor has a higher lift on the loader, and has a larger 3pt hitch for cat 1 attachment's. I guess because they are taller and wider this tractor will accept a broader array of (stuff ) you can mount out back.

Lastly if you bump to what I call a "normal tractor" the rear tires are much larger than the two previously mentioned. Lots of folks here use these and are quite happy, however getting down to lake though a 'walking trail' isn't gonna happen. But with a tractor like this you will certainly make the trail larger to sustain it - the fun part! Size of this tractor would be an Kubota L series.

In summary I think you would find useful; anything larger than the Craftsman you currently own. Certainly a loader attached, and a back hoe. Yes a back hoe, to break up stubborn ground, dig an out house, plant footers, install underground water pipe/electric wire. The uses go on and on.... I find my tractor falls short some days and exceeds my expectations on others, (There is no perfect tool for the job, but any tool certainly beats nothing).

Good luck

Thank you for your response!

I went to my local Kubota dealer today and priced out a BX25 - NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE 26 - the price is significantly cheaper than a Deere with a mower. Around 22 (vs 31 including mower and 500$ pallet fork, ~28 without that stuff). Having seen the size of the deck, I think it's probably best if I don't go that route for cutting. They are rather industrial units. From examining the used market (over the last few days as best as possible in such a short time), it seems that the units of that size in good shape in this area do hold their value quite well. Both the Deere and Kubota salesmen were enthusiastic towards that point of view. As far as Kubota, they said they would hold the price until the end of this month. There was a certain degree of certainty that the price would likely change next month towards the more expensive.

As far as the tractor goes... I think that the sub compact is really as far as I am going to be able to use effectively at this time. Certainly an L3301 which was right beside the BX25 in the showroom was massive in comparison. I'm going to speak with the 60 year old and see where we go from here

 

[AxleHub]

Thank you for your response!

I went to my local Kubota dealer today and priced out a BX25 - NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE 26 - the price is significantly cheaper than a Deere with a mower. Around 22 (vs 31 including mower and 500$ pallet fork, ~28 without that stuff). Having seen the size of the deck, I think it's probably best if I don't go that route for cutting. They are rather industrial units. From examining the used market (over the last few days as best as possible in such a short time), it seems that the units of that size in good shape in this area do hold their value quite well. Both the Deere and Kubota salesmen were enthusiastic towards that point of view. As far as Kubota, they said they would hold the price until the end of this month. There was a certain degree of certainty that the price would likely change next month towards the more expensive.

As far as the tractor goes... I think that the sub compact is really as far as I am going to be able to use effectively at this time. Certainly an L3301 which was right beside the BX25 in the showroom was massive in comparison. I'm going to speak with the 60 year old and see where we go from here

North,

Note that virtually none of the dealers will guarantee prices past the last day if the month. As an example, every single month the Massey promotions can change (dealer rebates, buyer rebates, interest rates, finance programs etc.). Likely same story with most brands.

Literally . . dealers don't know or have any advance warning. Its done deliberately so dealers don't "stufg the channel" one month and none the next.

It will be interesting to see hiw quotes from other brands compare to your bx25 quote. I found a significant variation in pricing on the very same brand and model when I did my searches.

Again . . a good subcompact will be a big change in ability and capability vs. the lawn tractors. Whem you get one . . your face will hurt from smiling too much while operati g it. Lol

 

[Gittyup]

All of the SCUTs are just glorified mowers. If that is what you need, then go for it. You'll be back buying bigger very soon. The Kubota B's are nice and light: easily towed, nice cabs. The Kioti CUTs are heavy, dirt moving beasts. The Mahindra X28 is a lot of power in a small tractor. The MF 1700's (not GCs) are very nice. There is nothing wrong with LS (or new holland clones), or Branson, or Yanmar either. What about McCormick? They re-badge Kiotis. Maybe there is a bigger McCormick presence in Canada, dont' know. LS is your best value right now. John Deere's are nice but too pricey for the capable ones.

If it were me, I'd being looking 35-45 HP, as heavy as I could find with good hydraulics and remotes. There is no substitute for weight. Then get a cheap mower for the lawn part of things.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

OP, consider a zero turn lawn mower and a small skid or track loader with less than 1000 hours on it instead of a tractor.