Hydro vs Geared

[thcri]

Neal,

I will ditto that statement.

murph

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Thanks again, I am very glad my wife found you!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )</font> Now there's something ya don't see everyday! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Seriously, thanks for asking, I'm kicking around the hydro/gear thing myself and have found some useful information.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Neal, that certainly has been my experience too. I just checked this post, did not read any except yours because thats where it went when I selected "hydro vs gear" and without getting too caught up in the discussion, I think your quite correct. I own(ed) 2 tractors until just a 2 weeks ago. I had a Kubota L48 and still own a International 454. Ones hydro anf the other a manual 8 speed. My next tractor will be hydro because I just don't do frequently enough, the ripping you describe other then some shallow boxscrsaper stuff. Rat

 

[Darren]

The only reason I bought a hydro was to try to entice the little lady to use the tractor. After riding a Gravely backwards down a hill into a fence after she tried to change gears, I though the hydro might suit her. I had none of the concerns most folks consider.

Well turns out she's never used the tractor. I've put all the hours on it. Having both geared and hydro on the place, I can say I would never buy a geared tractor again. A hydro is so simple to use you can totally concentrate on the work.

Other than occasionally changing the range, you don't think about shifting. Add to that I can creep along slower than most geared tractors and still maintain pto rpm for cutting really tall grass or brush. I've cut grass and weeds with a belly mower that were over 5' high.

The ability to "inch" the tractor means I can ease into something much slower than first gear on most tractors. It also means on treacherous slopes, I can go extremely slow to navigate obstacles. Works for me.

 

[frank_f15]

neal: VERY WELL SAID. <font color="red">I NEED ADD NO MORE </font>

 

[BWS]

i agree with ns in tex.same go,s for a truck on the road.if you haul a fifth wheel down the open highways get a gear trany.more useful power.around the city or short stop and go driving,go with a automatic.cost for repairs??do you consider this when you buy a truck??probably not.jmo bws[ps i have a diesel/gear truck[we tow alot] and a hydro tractor.bws

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Darren, so do you want to give me the Gravely ? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[WVBill]

I'll add another advantage for the hydro, similar to what Darren said about keeping the PTO speed up while creeping - hydraulic actions (e.g. FEL movements) are faster.

With a geared tractor like my Kubota B6100 when doing FEL work like moving a dirt pile I have two choices: I can set the hand throttle to keep the engine rpm up and hydraulic pump making a lot of pressure/flow so that the FEL moves quickly - but that means doing all tractor speed control with brake and clutch and slamming into the pile at full throttle. Or I can use the foot throttle, ease into the dirt pile and back off the throttle - but then the FEL runs slowly unless I take it out of gear and run up the rpms.

With a hydro, as I understand it, you're always running the engine/hydraulic pump at higher speed so you always have max hydraulic flow and FEL quickness.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hands down the Hydro's are easier to use and more versatile. The only operational problems I have heard of occur with some models on steeper slopes, ie One model ( I forget which one ) will quit going when going up a fairly steep slope because of the hydro pickup tube being on one end.
It is VERY probable that the hydro will cost more to repair over long term ownership and require more skilled hands and specialized tools to repair it than the average owner has.

If you plan on trading in your tractor every 10 years or so, and do not use it exclusively for plowing then the Hydro is the way to go. If you plan on keeping your tractor forever and are concerned with the long term operating cost then you might want to consider things a bit more.

I wish there were a way to accurately collect service/repair info on the newer hydro tractors. Of course dealers would not want to do this as every brand of tractor has had a stinker or two /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Above all enjoy safe tractoring.

 

[timb]

The biggest "problem" I see with the hydro vs gear wars is no one has been able to actually quantify the "magic" dividing line. Meaning - most people agree the worst situation to put a hydro in is heavy, steady ground engagement. It's not the horsepower loss per se - it's where it goes. The missing drawbar horsepower doesn't magically evaporate. It's being consumed by the inherent inefficiencies of the hydro transmission - ultimately being turned to heat. Heat is the enemy of most things mechanical. But - since Nebraska doesn't test CUTs - how can that statement ever be qualified? Just how much ground engagement or like work does it take before you're asking for trouble with a CUT hydro?

I was originally convinced I was better off with a shuttle shift due to the mix of jobs I thought I would have. At this point I'm still convinced that those jobs are better served by a gear tranny, I'm just less confident that I had the right job mix "score" for my property.

I "plan" on running a (single shank) sub-soiler pretty extensively to break up old hardpan over time over about 10-12 acres - but most is likely a one-time deal. I "plan" on plowing/disking several acres (at most) every year. Is that too much for a big CUT hydro or well within their limit? Dunno. Pretty much all the other jobs I have shouldn't be an issue and there certainly are plenty of times when a hydro would be a lot more "user friendly".

Sure be nice if the mfgs. would include a transmission temperature gauge with appropriate acceptable temperature ranges - you'd know then if you needed to back off (or add an auxilary cooler).

I recently realized there is one last angle I never anticipated. We've been looking around for a decent lawn/garden tractor to handle the small work and lawn mowing. Looking at the current JD riders - their two-pedal set up mimics the 4000Ten controls. The light bulb went off that if we do buy a new one with that set up - it might be a lot more comfortable transition for the better half if she ever wants to use the bigger tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

Sounds like that garden tractor system didn't have a relief valve.. or it was improperly set...

As for longevity.. at the 50 year point. The big thing I see is that metal is gonna have a better chance of still being there in 50 years.. as opposed to some oring. I'm skepticle myself about how long a hydro will run without a rebuild v.s how long a gear will run without a rebuild.. perhaps we can get some insight from some of the cubs with hydrs'.. what vintage are these? 70's.. still a long way to go begore they hit the 50 year mark.

I do know one thing.. My stepfathers JD 2040 with indepentent pto , the pto gave out du to an oring leak... was 700 in parts by the time we got it tore down, replaced the seals, and put new friction material in ( just because it was already open ).... I would rather have a 2 stage clutch like my 1920 does... seems it would be easier to fix than the indepentent pto setup...

just my .02$

Soundguy

 

[TurboSonic]

Hello Everyone,

Well I feel like I got to jump in cause I have had bit of "experience" with a hydro tranny on my Ford LGT145 for the last 15 years or so /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif This LGT145 is a ~14HP garden tractor and have the MMM, Tiller, Front Blade, various hand made gardening implements, trailler and use to have a snowblower. Most of what I do with this tractor is lawn mowing gardening, snow plowing and hauling stuff like wood, rocks with a trailer. The gardening work is probably the thoughest jobs for the tractor . I also am loading up that trailer pretty much to it's capcity and never had any problem pulling it (except when running out of traction /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The LGT145 dates from the mid 70s (72-74). It has a two range hydro trans which works with two pedals that are linked like the kubota BX series. During the years, the transmission was changed onced ( I still have the old tranny around somewhere). In the last 10 years we had no problems with the new trany. The hydraulic system has been reworked cause of a failling cylinder. I have always considered this tractor ahead of it's time because of it's trany. Mowing is just a blast.
I'm no mechanic so the maintenance I do on this troctor is very basic.
I'm consedering that it has been a though little tractor for all these years. My neigbhoors have been buying tractor after tractor for years now. We still used this old trusty Ford! (Althought now I'm looking for a bigger machine /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
For me hydro is just plain and simple what I need!

Sylvain

 

[Darren]

I could be talked into selling it. It doesn't run. It's been sitting out by the barn since I rolled it off the ramps. I was going to take it back to a dealer that screwed up the rebuild. I've since decided to stay away from the dealer and bad mouth him like everyone else I've met. They also defrauded me on repairing a walk behind Gravely.


FWIW, I don't recommend the JD dealer in Fairmont, WV. Folks will buy from them and then after the first repair experience go elsewhere.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The LGT145 dates from the mid 70s (72-74). .... During the years, the transmission was changed onced )</font>

Well.. 2 trannies on this unit already... Not sure if that is really a 'plus' message for the hydro's... Anyone else have vintage hydros?

Soundguy

 

[PhilVA]

I'll just give you my $0.02 since I own a L3000DT. First I went through the same thought process as you, gear versus hydro, since I have about the same land that you have. To make the final decision, I listed all the tasks I envisioned doing with the tractor and at the top of the list was pasture mowing. For me, pasture mowing is the one task I would spend the most time doing, so the easy choice was a geared tractor. I figured I'd mostly be going in one direction while mowing and not having to make gear changes while doing so.

All in all the decision comes down to what works for you and your situation. For me, geared was the way to go. Do I wish I had a hydro? I've not given it a second thought. Good luck in your decision.

Phil