Hydraulic Upgrades

[akadave]

I am looking to put a brush/root grapple on the front of my John Deere CUT in the near future and hopefully a backhoe attachment within the next year. My question is if I upgrade the front end with the 3rd function hydraulics will I end up duplicating any effort/expense if I add the backhoe later and need hydraulics at the back? I would rather spend the money now and get everything I need than go cheaper now but duplicate effort and maybe even remove something I just added with the grapple which would be wasted parts money.

I know my local John Deere dealer should be the place to ask this question but since I have an older tractor and am not looking to buy a new one they aren't too interested in this problem. That is the impression they give anyway and I don't want to waste any more time with them.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[kennyd]

What machine are we talking about here?

In general, the front 3rd function hydraulics and the rear hydraulics to run a backhoe (called "Power Beyond") are very separate things, so the answer to your question is no-you won't be "duplicating efforts".

 

[J_J]

Is your tractor open center hyd or closed center hyd?

What is the model number?

You could install a double solenoid valve , one for the front and one for the rear.

 

[akadave]

The tractor is a model 4200, 2001 model year and it has a FEL that was installed by the selling dealer that has since closed.

Sorry, I don't know enough about hydraulics to answer the open/closed question.

 

[J_J]

JD4200 Hydraulics:

Type: open center
Capacity: 6.3 gal [23.8 L] (gear)
6.8 gal [25.7 L] (hydro)
Pressure: 2125 psi [146.5 bar]
Valves: 2
Pump flow: 7.3 gpm [27.6 lpm]
Total flow: 12.3 gpm [46.6 lpm]

2 of these,

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...12-VDC-10-GPM-OC-DA-SOLENOID-VALVE-9-6136.axd

1 of these.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...2-STATION-DO3-SERIES-OC-SUBPLATE-9-5883-2.axd

 

[akadave]

Thanks, could you tell me in simple terms what those things in the links are? Is the "2 of these" both for the grapple or is one for the grapple and one for the backhoe later?

I know I am asking a lot of questions, sorry. I obviously don't know much about hydraulics and haven't been able to find any websites that are simple enough for a beginner. If you know of any online resources I could understand I will check them out.

 

[J_J]

Yes, one of the solenoids is for the grapple and one for whatever you need at the rear.

The subplate is used to route the fluid.

You can do one unit now and another later if you desire.

You would interrupt the flow path from the loader valve and install these valve in series with the flow to the back.

There is another way to get flow for the BH without using a solenoid by using the PB flow from the loader. There are just different ways to do things.

 

[akadave]

Obviously you know hydraulics and I really appreciated your taking time to reply to my questions.

Will that 12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE from surplus center allow me to still use the loader raise/lower & curl/dump at the same time as opening/closing the grapple or will one of the current functions be shut off to temporarily allow the grapple to open/close?

Also for the backhoe, if I understand right the solenoid you suggested will put hydraulic power to the backhoe attachment but it will have the valves/controls built in that will then divert that flow to the boom, swing, bucket position, etc? If this is right I only have to get two hydraulic lines (or is it one?) to the rear of the tractor and this solenoid does that once I get the lines for it?

 

[J_J]

When you activate the true 3rd, you send all fluid to whatever the solenoid is controlling. Whatever fluid is in the motor or cyl will now flow downstream.

There might be a slight hesitation.

Any solenoid control is instant on and provides a full flow path to whatever, for the time the switch is activated.

For your BH, you need a single supply port QD, and a return line from the BH to the tractor tank.

If your BH valve happens to have PB, I can tell you how to set that up.

 

[akadave]

Would you go with the two valves you originally suggested or the PB? One issue with the PB is JD no longer offers a kit for the 4200. Maybe an aftermarket company does?

Money isn't really an issue as I plan to keep this tractor many more years and I want it done right. However it makes no sense to spend say $600 now and another $600 when I get the backhoe if $800 now takes care of that too. Those numbers are just plucked out of thin air but I'm sure you understand my point.

 

[J_J]

If you are going to get a grapple and a BH, I would go ahead and get the dual 3rd function valves so it is waiting when you get the BH. You could use it for other things.

The thing about the PB, is that if your loader valve has the PB port, then you don't need much more.

 

[footer200]

If you look at the back of your tractor just in front of where the toplink connects. You will see a black steel line that carries the power beyond fluid from the right side of the tractor (loader valve) to the left side (3 point valve). It is just a case of removing that steel line, replacing it with 2 hydraulic hoses (proper fittings to hook into tractor) with quick connects in the middle. You would then unplug the quick connects and connect the pressure side from tractor (right side line) to the backhoe and the return from the backhoe to the tractor tank. The tank can connect on the right side near the hydraulic fill cap on the tractor (see pic). When you unplug the quick connect in this line and connect in the backhoe your 3 point will not work. As with the backhoe attached you will not need use of the 3 point. The pics are from a 4300 but should be the same for your 4200 I believe. Should be about 150 bucks at a local hydraulic shop. Just a note when you remove the steel line take the fittings out of the tractor and get fittings for your new lines to fit right into the tractor case. (they are more common thread) On the left side you will need a 45 degree to clear the tractor case.

 

[footer200]

Here you can see the 45 degree elbow for clearance. And the black steel line you will be removing (Some have a filter in them)

 

[footer200]

Here is a pic of my 4300 and I have tapped into the power beyond line to run 3 rear remotes. You can just see the line on the right (#3 pressure) going up to the remotes. Power beyond going into the 3 point control on the left (#1) and the tank return line from the valves going in the side of the case near fill plug.(#2)

If you can picture in your head my 3 rear remote valves are plumbed in that original line with a 3rd line to tank.

Is this making any sense for you? I have more pics and info but trying to make it simple for you to digest.