HST vs Manual trans

[Sawyer Rob]

You guys that complain about the whine of a HST should operate a Cockshutt 30 for a bit! :d

WHY? I'd rather NOT torture myself with either one!

My neighbor lost the pump ($1,000.000 repair bill) on his hystat tractor and was told it was because he wasn't running the engine fast enough as he used it. He likes to run at lower rpms... I told him when he bought it that he needed to keep the rpms up, but he didn't listen...

I'm the same way, I prefer to keep the rpms down, and I've never had that cost me any repairs on a gear drive tractor...

SR

 

[bckskin2]

The reason I asked is the 3X3 are getting harder to find. I have been using a NH TC30 with a 3X3 since '04 before I had a 4 speed Ferguson. I use my wife's JD with a HST to mow some and do not care it. I just get the "cruse" set and it is time to change. I love my ZTR with HST .

 

[LouNY]

I like both gear and hydro's for different reasons, I can remember when we got our first hydro a IH 656 gasser, real nice for light work, wasn't very good for drawbar working, used more gas the the Ford 8000 used fuel per hour. Then a IH Hydro 100, really nice for PTO working, not so nice for drawbar use. Presently the only hydro's we have are on lawn tractors, my 8050 has a power shuttle which is nice. On a sub compact or compact used for light drawbar loads and generally light work with considerable loader work use the hydro's. Just be sure to perform the proper maintenance, fluid and filters because that hydro is going to be one heck of an expense when it goes, a lot more then a clutch job.

 

[oldpilgrim]

As the last guy said hst is no good, weak and expensive to fix as they break all the time.

That's why commercial skid steers, dozers and excavators use them, so there can be a lot of expensive down time for the businesses that own them.

That was sarcasm.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I have to agree with your dad on the transmission I always have hated the automatic trans in a truck and every year no matter how hard they try to build one I like they still cant build one I want to own. Power brakes, power steering, 4 wheel disks compared to the old days I will take. Just get rid of the drive by wire and the auto tranny and I would be happy.
I still own some very old cars that don't have power brakes, over the years for safety I have added updated dual reservoir master cylinders but honestly cant say that I ever had a problem getting them cars to a stop no matter the situation. A truck and the weights we are pulling is however a different story. Power steering is nice and anyone who has ever driven a old car and honestly remembers how much turning in tight spaces could be required, would appreciate the ease of it compared. I must however point out that we did get along just fine without it and for the most part it kept the bad drivers off the road but today we build cars that they can barely drive and they just go get in our way. Maybe we should regress just a little and get the rubbish out from behind the wheel!

So you'd rather burn more fuel, pollute more air, and accelerate more slowly, just for the privilege of shifting it yourself? I could see that in a Miata, but not a truck with eight thousand pounds of stuff being pulled.

 

[arrow]

So after 5 pages and you can see opinions are all over the place once again, this should give you a hint. This is not a cut and dried question such as "do you like to puke or do you prefer not to"? It is a matter of personal preference. Some tractors do very well with hst and others not so much. To make up power differences for heavy work, get the higher hp tractor that has hst. If you like lower rpm's and the bit more quiet they bring while doing work, get a geared. A geared tractor transfers it's energy with more efficiency. This becomes advantageous with heavy work using ground engaging equipment.
Some tractors use a treadle on their hst's while others have separate pedals for back and forth. The bottom line is this, you need to start experiencing some of these differences to pick out which you like best. Go to dealers and try out both types. How you're wired will tell you which to get.

 

[big bubba]

being a compact tractor forum w/most members using tractors for homeowner use (& many in retirement w/varying med conditions), it only makes sense that the majority would favor hst for good reason.

although i don't by any means earn my living off my 127 acre mountain farm, i elected to go w/ the heavier duty M series for reasons i won't bore you with. i did get the hyd shuttle for obvious reasons, esp for repeated fel use, etc. love that feature as with fully synchro 12 sp manual transmission. not having knee problems or other physical constraints, feel that for me, my set up is the best of 2 worlds.

as mentioned, we are fortunate to have a lot of choices in the various line of models to fit customer needs. worthwhile discussion here.
best regards

 

[Zippster]

Love my shuttle, my father has a Kubota hst that I used for years but bought my TYM as a shuttle, not even so much about the slight increase in price, I just prefer the clutch and feel to it all.

 

[Tractorable]

What do you guys think about the new "integrated Hydro-Mechanical Transmission" (I-HMT) in the new Yanmar YT3 series tractors?

More efficient than a HST, and the entire transmission unit slides out the back of the tractor if/when it ever needs servicing.

New innovative technology? Or just a new twist on old technology?

 

[CincyFlyer]

What do you guys think about the new "integrated Hydro-Mechanical Transmission" (I-HMT) in the new Yanmar YT3 series tractors?

More efficient than a HST, and the entire transmission unit slides out the back of the tractor if/when it ever needs servicing.

New innovative technology? Or just a new twist on old technology?

Probably similar to the single-clutch transmissions used in some older sports cars (before the double-clutch became the thing.) Or similar to an F1 transmission.

 

[LouNY]

As the last guy said hst is no good, weak and expensive to fix as they break all the time.

That's why commercial skid steers, dozers and excavators use them, so there can be a lot of expensive down time for the businesses that own them.

That was sarcasm.

This is not sarcasm.
I don't believe anywhere in my post I say no good or that they break all the time.
Expensive to fix heck yes, they are.
What goes out on skid steers when they get a few thousand hours, the drives.
What goes out on excavators the turn table motors and final drives.
Do either of those do any drawbar work????
As far as dozers, the last I knew there where a few hydrostatic drives but the vast majority where power shifts, which is a whole different critter.
I actually like hydro's for light work and loader work.
I don't like the foot pedal controls, go back to fender or console mounted sticks with a foot an inch pedal and they are handy, but not for
mainly drawbar work continuously pulling hard.

Lou

 

[deanocraft]

I bought my first tractor about a year and half ago. It is a Synchro-Shuttle that I found just barely broken in on the used market. I have had manual transmissions in my vehicles for most of my life, and I believe that is the only way to go. When I bought the tractor, I asked the same question on this forum and was generally told that I needed an HST because I was a tractor rookie. Luckily, I did not take that advice! I love the tractor and have had no problems handling the clutch. I have done some loader work with it when I re-worked our driveway. I find the shuttle to be no problem, but I am not the greatest at filling up my bucket with one graceful scoop! Hopefully that will come with time.

As for the automatic transmission debate, I bought a new to me 2012 Ram 1500 last year and I had to go with an automatic. I love the truck, but sure would love it more if I could pick the gear to use on hill climbs! I drive a lot in the Smokey Mts. and hate to hear my transmission downshift 2 gears on the way up a steep grade. For some reason, they designed it to skip 3rd gear on the downshift pattern... Crazy!

 

[paulfun9]

So you'd rather burn more fuel, pollute more air, and accelerate more slowly, just for the privilege of shifting it yourself? I could see that in a Miata, but not a truck with eight thousand pounds of stuff being pulled.

You do realize that to date I haven't driven a car or truck with an automatic trans that could get the same or better MPG as it did with a standard trans. (this includes both trucks and cars that can or could be purchased with auto or stick as well as the many I have converted when the cheesy auto tranny couldn't take it and needed an expensive replacement.
Secondly the highways are not race tracks! I have race cars for the race track so no real need for being worried about super fast acceleration! Which by the way you probably wouldn't know I was driving standard trans if you were driving right along side me unless you were accelerating at a rate that was clearly much more than a cop would allow without charging you with exhibition of speed!
SO if I can get better fuel MPG accelerate at the same speed as traffic and actually have better control of my truck because I am not dependent on the computer to make uninformed blind choices for me like all the automatic/computer combos do these days and I even get a higher payload and towing capacity along with it you think I am nuts.

Well I think your nuts and probably not even a good driver! I have actually paid good money to have my current one and only auto trans reprogrammed so it no longer has a mind of its own and I am getting better fuel MPG and am much more comfortable now that it doesn't make choices for me but rather waits till I tell it what to do! Yep when it goes I will take one of the old gear boxes I have stored and convert it to a clutch and be even more happy.


Who in their right mind wants to floor their truck from a dead stop with a 14,000 LBS or as in some cases 20K load on it? I sure don't and to keep an auto alive without expensive rebuilds for 2 or 3 hundred thou you would be wise to let the guy next to you with the stick pull away unless your actually empty and even then I would think about it real hard.

What else is funny to me is that when we had more manual cars and no power steering I rarely had a problem with bad drivers running into my lane, not paying attention to the road or the flow of traffic like we do today. Maybe it would be good if we gave them enough to do that they could not find the time to text or yap on the phone with their buddy. Everything manual no power right down to having to flip the turn signal lever back and forth just to make it flash.

 

[dragoneggs]

Enjoying this thread read. I like manual and automatic. HST and gear shift. Each has its place. Whether it be your car, truck, or tractor. All depends on what makes you happy and confident you got what works for you.

 

[sd455dan]

This is not sarcasm.
I don't believe anywhere in my post I say no good or that they break all the time.
Expensive to fix heck yes, they are.
What goes out on skid steers when they get a few thousand hours, the drives.
What goes out on excavators the turn table motors and final drives.
Do either of those do any drawbar work????
As far as dozers, the last I knew there where a few hydrostatic drives but the vast majority where power shifts, which is a whole different critter.
I actually like hydro's for light work and loader work.
I don't like the foot pedal controls, go back to fender or console mounted sticks with a foot an inch pedal and they are handy, but not for
mainly drawbar work continuously pulling hard.

Lou

Yeah when the drives break on Hydro skid steers they Ain't cheap to fix... When 1 side of the hydro went on our L778 NH skid steer the bill was $6800. Sold it because (someday) may need to replace the other side...

mowed with brush cutter for 8 hours straight yesterday on the manual trans Rhino, I do like how the trans / rear axle is just over the outside air temp after mowing all day.
Want a smaller tractor for (in the barn) work and it will most likely be a Hydro tractor for the finesse factor

 

[CincyFlyer]

You do realize that to date I haven't driven a car or truck with an automatic trans that could get the same or better MPG as it did with a standard trans. (this includes both trucks and cars that can or could be purchased with auto or stick as well as the many I have converted when the cheesy auto tranny couldn't take it and needed an expensive replacement.
Secondly the highways are not race tracks! I have race cars for the race track so no real need for being worried about super fast acceleration! Which by the way you probably wouldn't know I was driving standard trans if you were driving right along side me unless you were accelerating at a rate that was clearly much more than a cop would allow without charging you with exhibition of speed!
SO if I can get better fuel MPG accelerate at the same speed as traffic and actually have better control of my truck because I am not dependent on the computer to make uninformed blind choices for me like all the automatic/computer combos do these days and I even get a higher payload and towing capacity along with it you think I am nuts.

Well I think your nuts and probably not even a good driver! I have actually paid good money to have my current one and only auto trans reprogrammed so it no longer has a mind of its own and I am getting better fuel MPG and am much more comfortable now that it doesn't make choices for me but rather waits till I tell it what to do! Yep when it goes I will take one of the old gear boxes I have stored and convert it to a clutch and be even more happy.


Who in their right mind wants to floor their truck from a dead stop with a 14,000 LBS or as in some cases 20K load on it? I sure don't and to keep an auto alive without expensive rebuilds for 2 or 3 hundred thou you would be wise to let the guy next to you with the stick pull away unless your actually empty and even then I would think about it real hard.

What else is funny to me is that when we had more manual cars and no power steering I rarely had a problem with bad drivers running into my lane, not paying attention to the road or the flow of traffic like we do today. Maybe it would be good if we gave them enough to do that they could not find the time to text or yap on the phone with their buddy. Everything manual no power right down to having to flip the turn signal lever back and forth just to make it flash.

I too have had manual transmission cars and trucks without power steering or brakes or windows or A/C or even a radio. I just drove an old sports car that I was considering purchasing, manual everything.
But if you haven't driven a car or truck with auto transmission that couldn't beat the manual, then you ihaven't driven a modern car or truck! You can think what you like of me, and call me nuts, and a bad driver. That would be your uninformed opinion. But the state of the art in AT simply wipes MT in ALL performance categories.
I've seen many trucks and trucks (some were mine!) with upwards of 200K miles (and even 300K miles) with automatic transmissions. Personally, I have never needed a new clutch or automatic transmission work on any vehicle I've owned (which would number somewhat more than 30, unless you count motorcycles, then double that!)

 

[paulfun9]

I too have had manual transmission cars and trucks without power steering or brakes or windows or A/C or even a radio. I just drove an old sports car that I was considering purchasing, manual everything.
But if you haven't driven a car or truck with auto transmission that couldn't beat the manual, then you ihaven't driven a modern car or truck! You can think what you like of me, and call me nuts, and a bad driver. That would be your uninformed opinion. But the state of the art in AT simply wipes MT in ALL performance categories.
I've seen many trucks and trucks (some were mine!) with upwards of 200K miles (and even 300K miles) with automatic transmissions. Personally, I have never needed a new clutch or automatic transmission work on any vehicle I've owned (which would number somewhat more than 30, unless you count motorcycles, then double that!)

Don't fool yourself!
I just went threw buying a new truck.

You sound like the salesman when I asked about ordering one with a manual. "OH no need for that our New and improved 8speed,10 speed will make you never want a stick again" One test ride over the mountain and back and I want a stick how do we order this truck with a clutch?

 

[4570Man]

I have 2 1990s trucks. The manual truck I'm driving, the automatic truck is down with the transmission out of it. My Silverado with a automatic also had transmission issues. I can't afford a brand new truck with a 8 speed transmission.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Don't fool yourself!
I just went threw buying a new truck.

You sound like the salesman when I asked about ordering one with a manual. "OH no need for that our New and improved 8speed,10 speed will make you never want a stick again" One test ride over the mountain and back and I want a stick how do we order this truck with a clutch?

My tractor has a clutch, for practical reasons. But I'm not fooling myself in any way: a modern truck with a many-speed transmission (and hopefully a diesel!) is better than its manual counterpart. I've been stuck in traffic a zillion times, and a manual transmission is a PITA. And most do not fail; on owner's forums people do not generally post "I've gone 75,000 trouble free miles". Instead, they post about troubles. I don't seem to have mechanical issues with machines that I've owed since new. I know a woman who hammered her car: throttle on, throttle off. No feathering. Sickening to drive with. And at least three transmissions bad in the last few years.
(BTW, one of my past vehicles was a Suburban with three-on-the-tree! That was a rare bird, even in its day.)

 

[paulfun9]

My tractor has a clutch, for practical reasons. But I'm not fooling myself in any way: a modern truck with a many-speed transmission (and hopefully a diesel!) is better than its manual counterpart. I've been stuck in traffic a zillion times, and a manual transmission is a PITA. And most do not fail; on owner's forums people do not generally post "I've gone 75,000 trouble free miles". Instead, they post about troubles. I don't seem to have mechanical issues with machines that I've owed since new. I know a woman who hammered her car: throttle on, throttle off. No feathering. Sickening to drive with. And at least three transmissions bad in the last few years.
(BTW, one of my past vehicles was a Suburban with three-on-the-tree! That was a rare bird, even in its day.)

Rare bird? When I started buying cars/trucks having a 3 on the tree was rather common. Having a 70's suburban with one might be a little odd but I assure you it wasn't as rare as you might think! I had 3 of them at one time and along with it the wife had a Chevy chevelle with one .

I wont argue with you any longer but I assure you if I decide to buy an new or used car or truck in the future I will post here and ask you which I like best as you seem to know what is best for me no matter how limited your experience is compared to mine!