How much HP do I need

[Gerry G]

I've got 23 acres. About 18 wooded. I'm looking to timber it to help defray to cost of a tractor. I can drop the trees, but need a tractor to get them out. I was thinking 4WD diesel, but don't know how much HP. I don't want to spend more money than necessary.
Thanks in advance. I just found this site and love all the great advise.

 

[archerynut]

We all need a little more info. What is the terrain that you have (filll out your profile, that will help). What are your other plans for the tractor? What size are the tree that you will be timbering? do you need to just drag them out or do you need to load them also?

 

[Dmace]

How much HP do I need

As much as you can afford!

 

[jbrumberg]

GerryG:

Welcome to TBN ! I agree with archerynut about the requested information and also with dmace. Be prepared for alot of information as well as opinions . When you go to the next step, get really serious, and start to compare "specifications" of the different brands of tractors be prepared for inconsistent and often confusing data as the "specs" are often driven by Sales & Marketing Departments as the different manufacturers will look as somewhat different criteria in order to put their respective tractors in the "best light". The larger tractor manufacturers provide tractor selector software programs on their websites that will recommend tractors based on your data input. These programs are "loaded" for FEL use and possibly property size. We all advise that you "try out" the tractors you are interested in as well as the dealerships. Size for size and price for price the "Big 3 or 4" tractors are relatively similar (each have their own positives and negatives). There is no "perfect" tractor out there. Dealer "feel" is as important as tractor "feel" for in the long run a good dealership will probably provide better support, information, and save you money. The biggest thing to remember is that the membership of TBN is more than willing to spend your money and there are some serious HP junkies in TBN land (To get a good idea as to what a Class II tractor can do look at Derek's CK20 in his avatar ). Best of luck- Jay

 

[Bob_Young]

Kinda depends on how big the logs are, Gerry, and what lengths you saw them to. If they are the diameter of what's in Derek's bucket (in his Avatar) and 20 to 25 ft. long, I'd want 4WD and at least 35HP; 40+HP would be better. I'm not saying you couldn't get it done with less, but you'd need some weight, especially if you had to pull up any grades. Weight and a good slow 1st gear might let you get by with minimum HP.

A big old Ag tractor with lotsa weight and cheap HP might do the job for the least money...even if it's only 2WD.
FWIW
Bob

 

[Gerry G]

Sorry guys. As I said I'm a newbie. The trees aren't too big, 20 in. max-lengths will be cut to 10 ft.-land is very navigable, and where they'd be removed would be almost level. Only other needs, would be tilling to put in food plots on the non wooded acreage. I'm sure as I get more into it, I may get a backhoe. Other then that, that's pretty much it.
Thanks again for the quick, informative input.

 

[nosliw]

As much as you can afford!

ain't that the truth!

i've used my tractor for some jobs similar to that of the OP and my john deere 990 does a helluva job. that's 40.4hp.

edit- and for ground engagingment - like tilling - it's hard to beat a manual gear tractor!

 

[Z-Michigan]

OK, so we're talking about dragging logs over 18 acres, and tilling not more than 5 acres or so. What are you going to do with the logs once you get them out of the woods - cutting them for firewood, loading them onto someone's truck, or simply putting them in one area so someone else can load them onto a truck with their own equipment?

I don't think you'll need a lot of hp for dragging logs and tilling a few acres. 30-35 would probably be fine. I would definitely recommend 4wd for dragging stuff through the woods and general ease of use. However, if you want a front end loader that can easily/safely lift those logs, you'll probably be looking at slightly bigger tractors - maybe the 40hp class or so. I would think a Kubota L4400, Deere 990, or similar from other manufacturers would be a good starting point if you're using FEL to lift the logs. If not, you could probably go a bit smaller, like an L3400, Deere 790, NH TC30, etc. If you do want to use the FEL for logs, you definitely want something with quick attach so you can use either pallet forks or a grapple bucket for lifting and moving them. The factory loader on the Kubota L4400 and L3400 does not have a quick attach option, but I believe you can get a Woods brand FEL for those that does. Not sure if the Deere 790/990 FELs have quick attach or not.

 

[jbrumberg]

Gerry G:

Z-Michigan raises some good points as to how much tilling and wood "manipulation" do you intend to do? There is a big difference between Class II & III tractors. Jay

 

[Gerry G]

I'd be just dragging. A friend from NYSDEC said the money is in cutting and having companies bid on your wood pile, as opposed to having someone else do the work. Probably pulling stumps for a pond is another need.
Thanks again.

 

[jbrumberg]

Gerry G:

You might want to consider a bulldozer to get rid of stumps for your pond; even with a backhoe it takes quite awhile. As to dragging 10' logs you do not need a monster tractor (IMHO). I would think you would benefit from a Class II CUT (high 20's/low30's HP) for manuverability in your woods as well as the lower costs of purchasing a 60" vs 72" tiller and other attachments. I would recommend that you get the most HP for whatever sized frame tractor you ultimately get. Jay

 

[RoyJackson]

Gerry G:

You might want to consider a bulldozer to get rid of stumps for your pond; even with a backhoe it takes quite awhile. As to dragging 10' logs you do not need a monster tractor (IMHO). I would think you would benefit from a Class II CUT (high 20's/low30's HP) for maneuverability in your woods as well as the lower costs of purchasing a 60" vs 72" tiller and other attachments. I would recommend that you get the most HP for whatever sized frame tractor you ultimately get. Jay

I believe New Holland is the only manufacturer that classifies their tractors by size or weight.
When I first read Jay's post, I thought he meant Category which, in the case of all the CUTs (not the subCUTs) is Category 1.

Just a bit of a clarification...

Most folks responding to this thread seem to agree on the tractor size (30 HP ± 5HP)...including me. You might want to consider a used Utility tractor (rather then a CUT) and a gear transmission to save some money.

There's a thread dealing with rear rollovers in the satey forum on TBN. The kind of work you want to do has a lot of potential for a rear rollover, so you might want to read this (and other similar) threads.

 

[SOS]

I recommend 45+. I have a NH45a and I think it would do the job but I only have 13 wooded acers and mainly deal with the 6 to 12 inch pines leaving the larger hardwoods standing. I have two moster trees down from a bad storm (about 8 or 9 feet circumference) that I won't even try to move without chopping them up.

If time was important, I would go with around a 55+ but that may be too big to manuver.

Good luck.

 

[GaryCrowell]

Keep in mind that I'm from Mississippi and they do things differently down here than in NY. Around here no one uses tractors for logging. Timber is sold "on the stump" and the buyer sends in a logging crew to cut and haul it. They come in with big cutters and make quick work of a tract of timber. To get the timber to the loading zone they use skidders that are much bigger than the tractors available to anyone other than a huge commercial farming operation. Even with these huge skidders, logging is rough on equipment. Equipment takes a beating and it's unusual that a logging crew will keep equipment for more than 3-4 years before it's replaced.

My point is, I think you should do some more research into how timber is marketed in your area. I'd be hard pressed to volunteer to use my new tractor to snake logs out of the woods unless there was a LOT of money in it. Your tractor, big or small, is going to take a beating and there'd have to be a lot of money on the table to make up for the decreased value that your tractor is going have after it gets beaten to h*ll and back.

 

[jbrumberg]

Roy:

Thanks for setting me straight as to "NH only" CUT "Classes" ! It probably makes more sense to describe CUT's as small, middle, and larger frame which does appear to be somewhat HP dependent. Jay

 

[Bob_Young]

They do that here in NY too, Gary. Trouble is, it often leaves the woods a mess with tops and brush all mixed together and new growth well hammered. It's not just the equipment that takes a beating. Depending on what was done, it might take the woods owner quite awhile to get it cleaned up and looking decent again. Some don't care for this.

Your point about wear and tear on skidding equipment is well taken. It's no way to treat a nice new tractor. Logging crew skidders look like they've been through a war. That's why I thought an old Ag tractor might be a good choice. When the work's done, trade it on the new rig.
Bob

 

[Z-Michigan]

I recommend 45+. I have a NH45a and I think it would do the job but I only have 13 wooded acers and mainly deal with the 6 to 12 inch pines leaving the larger hardwoods standing. I have two moster trees down from a bad storm (about 8 or 9 feet circumference) that I won't even try to move without chopping them up.

If time was important, I would go with around a 55+ but that may be too big to manuver.

Good luck.

I have a Deere 5105, 50hp, MFWD, utility frame. I'll bet I could pull at least 2 of those 10' x 20" logs at the same time without breaking a sweat. I also doubt that I could turn tight enough to do a lot of the work you might want to do in the woods. My point - you can definitely go too big for your purposes.

I think you have an opportunity to buy something in the mid teens $$ and do all the work you want; maybe upper teens if you want a FEL and something on the bigger size range. I still think 30-35hp is adequate and 40 is about the most you really can use. Gear transmission would probably be ok for what you're doing, and will save some money. I do think that 4wd would be worth the cost, and while R1 tires have the most traction, unless you'll be pulling in mud lots of the time, I would get R4 industrial tires for maximum puncture resistance. This sort of setup would also be very reasonable for mowing and/or tilling 5 acres.

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, I would consider a loader/backhoe model like the JD 110 or the Kubota L39. I don't think you need one of those, but they would be a lot of fun!

 

[Gerry G]

IMHO, I've used my 450 cc Honda quad to haul out decent sized logs for firewood, and figured a 4 WD tractor would kick butt to take out the kind of tree's I've described. Maybe, I'm expecting too much from a tractor, as far as ruggedness and durability.
A guy that I let hay out my open areas has a huge Massey Ferguson 4 WD tractor-don't know HP but it's BIG. I've thought about having him haul the trees out and split the profits-he has the equipment, and I've got the trees.
Thanks again for all the help and input.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I don't think you're expecting too much from a tractor. The diesel engine tractors from SCUTs on up are extremely rugged and durable. I think a 4wd tractor would work great, and you don't need something especially big for the tasks you describe. There is a big contingent on this board that is sort of like Tim Allen's Tooltime - "more power! hahahaha". I have never dragged logs of any size so I don't have experience, but my prior post originally said I bet I could drag 10 of those at a time without a sweat. I think a 20-25hp SCUT would be adequate (though on the small end) and a 30-35hp CUT would be comfortable for the log-dragging work.

 

[gladehound]

I have to second the last post. I don't think you NEED that much hp to get the job done. More hp will just get it done faster. I've pulled 16" diameter logs that were 15 feet long with my little 20 hp (19 - 20.5 depending on the spec sheet you look at) tractor and couldn't feel that the tractor was pulling anything. How fast do you want to drag these logs? More hp just means you can drag them in a higher gear.

Even the smallest CUTs will pull many times what a quad will pull. With correct gearing, weight, tire type, and how you hook to the log determine how big a log you can pull, not hp. But I'd bet I could pull a 20 foot, 20" diameter log without any problems at all - and without stressing the tractor.