How much does your bean counter charge?

/ How much does your bean counter charge? #1  

bigtiller

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Mine charged a flat rate for 15 years and then changed to .15% per year of the invested amount in my 401K, which more than doubled the charge. Now he wants to change it to 1% which will be about 6.6 times the amount of .15% charged for the same work.

So in dollar terms, it went from $46 to $150 and now $1000 every quarter. And he is not even a broker or an adviser, he is a planner!

How much does your guy charge?
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #2  
I'd ask him why the invested amount in your 401K has anything to do with his services? Whether its $100 or $100,000 its just a number he has to plug in to a spread sheet. Sounds like he's sticking it to you. Get another accountant.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #3  
I would say your man has picked up some bad habits and needs a way to pay. How did he justify the change to .15. Must have had some bad planning if he had to now go to 1%. If he can not run his operation ,why would he be handling yours. At least YOU THINK ALL YOUR MONEY IS SAFE. WAIT TILL YOU TRY TO CASH OUT AND MOVE ON.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge?
  • Thread Starter
#4  
He told me that 1% per year is the standard fee for accounts under 500,000
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #5  
He told me that 1% per year is the standard fee for accounts under 500,000

This isn't a bean counter this sounds like a portfolio manager.

Basically he's finding that he has to get rid of the accounts that don't pay for his time, which he now thinks is worth ore than it used to be. Maybe because he's doing well.

It really depends how he's doing, what kind of return he's getting for you. Asking on TBN is one thing, but if you can find other clients, who have been there for awhile (and thru the wild ride of 2009, and ask them how they came out) you will find out what you need to know. I see 1% as reasonable for a guy who can get you about 4-5%. Merrill Lynch charges 1.2% for $1M, I bet 1.5% or more for $500,000.

Other financial planners are dying to get ahold of your money, why don't you interview some? They will certainly tell you their rates. Go ask Merrill Lynch.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #6  
its not very clear what this guy does for you.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #7  
This isn't a bean counter this sounds like a portfolio manager.

Basically he's finding that he has to get rid of the accounts that don't pay for his time, which he now thinks is worth ore than it used to be. Maybe because he's doing well.

It really depends how he's doing, what kind of return he's getting for you. Asking on TBN is one thing, but if you can find other clients, who have been there for awhile (and thru the wild ride of 2009, and ask them how they came out) you will find out what you need to know. I see 1% as reasonable for a guy who can get you about 4-5%. Merrill Lynch charges 1.2% for $1M, I bet 1.5% or more for $500,000.

Other financial planners are dying to get ahold of your money, why don't you interview some? They will certainly tell you their rates. Go ask Merrill Lynch.


I agree. 1% is relatively standard. While you can do better or worse on fees, the important thing is how does your guy have your portfolio structured . Is it inline with your age and your risk tolerance ? Are you a riverboat gambler type, or are you a safety first, no risk investor ? First thing I'd do is set up a meeting with your guy to discuss your concerns; for $4000 he can buy you a pretty good cup of coffee, plus he gets to write it off. I would certainly ask him about his fee increase; if he raised your fees he also raised a lot of other people. Some of them walked on him, some of those who walked he was glad to see go, and some of them he misses the $4000 or whatever he used to get. He may cut you a deal, or he may get you to think 1% is a bargain for you, I certainly don't know.
If you want to cut him loose ask people in a similar boat about their experiences with financial guys and start interviewing them. $400k makes you pretty attractive.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #8  
I count my own beans.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #9  
If your accountant hadn't increased his/her fees in 15 years I'd be surprised they only doubled them. Obviously they are structuring their fees to accomodate the majority of their client base. While you can certainly negotiate you need to first decide if you are satisfied with their performance and make your decision to leave or stay based upon that.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #10  
I would never, ever pay a guy based on the market value of your portfolio. In my opinion, its a bad model.

There are plenty of advisors who will bill you based on hours worked on your business.

Also, I recommend separating your advisor from the firm you use to execute trades.

Conflicts-of-interest can be great in the financial world. Conflicts-of-interest are rarely helpful to the person paying the bills.

MoKelly
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge?
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Gosh darn you guys are helpful. I am not nearly as shocked now, as i was after our last quarterly meeting. I had no idea the market was paying 1% or more, i thought it was just him. He has a pretty nice location and some high priced lawyers and certified accountants working as a group for him.

We were doing business with one of his guys for 20 years but that guy retired and the owner took over most of that guys accounts. So even though we have been with this company for over 20 years, we have never talked with the owner until last year so that explains most of my apprehension. I must add that we have been happy with everything we have seen from this company for the past 20 years.

I guess we will just go along for the ride. We don't plan on taking any disbursements until the mandatory ones at age 70. But it kind of irks me to know the only one buying good Scotch with money from my 401K is my portfolio manager.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #12  
You don't need a manager. Put it in a Vanguard or Fidelity target fund (mix of equity and bond funds that vary as you approach a retirement target). That's about all your guy is doing and he doesn't know nearly as much about it as the big Mutual Fund companies.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #13  
But it kind of irks me to know the only one buying good Scotch with money from my 401K is my portfolio manager.

Old joke... The stockbroker took his prospective client to the yacht club to impress him. He pointed to a bunch of big yachts and said these were the brokers' yachts. The client asked " Where are the customers yachts?"
While they don't like to be called stockbrokers anymore, they still do not find that one amusing.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #14  
I agree with KennyG! When the factory I worked at for 33 years closed except for a few of us everybody pulled their money out of their 401Ks and gave it to various account or portfolio managers. None have been happy with the long term results. Most of these managers will either steer you to a low paying mutual fund or annuity that they get a commission on or they will invest your money in mutual funds and take a percentage for "managing" your money. You are much better off going with a large company like Fidelity, JP Morgan, Vanguard, etc., and managing your money yourself. When our factory closed I received some very good advice from some people who have forgotten more about finance than I will ever know. So I left my money in my 401K and only rolled it into an IRA when I decided to retire. The IRA is with Fidelity. There are several large companies that offer this service but I like them. The lady I deal with at Fidelity calls me every few months and discusses what "I" want to do with my money. She is paid a salary, no commissions involved. According to her she is rated on how well her clients do. So it is in her interest to see me do well. I have mine spread out in twenty four different mutual funds. Even though she gave me recommendations I investigated the funds and picked where I wanted to put my money. I believe I have more than 2800 funds to pick from. I control what is invested in different funds, and she tries to keep me from screwing up too badly. Some of the moves I have made have left her speechless. Yes, one time she actually said, "I am speechless!". And I quickly sold out of that fund.

I have people tell me that they don't understand mutual funds, the stock market, etc. and that it is too much trouble to learn or too boring. Then they gripe that they can't retire because they don't have any money saved. It is your future, your retirement, you need to learn!

Here is some common sense advice she gave me a few weeks ago when we talked for nearly an hour. These are from my notes. The stock market is overdue for a correction. All stocks are overpriced right now. So if I intend to take money out for say a new vehicle, now is the time to do so. She said to be ready to move money to bond and value funds when it appears the market correction is taking place. Even though I have funds earning at a +30% rate right now they may drop to a -30% lose overnight so don't over invest in any one fund or industry. When, not if, the correction comes don't look at it as a disaster. Look at it as an opportunity. Look at a correction as stocks being put on sale. As soon as things start getting back to normal and the market starts going up invest more in the higher risk, higher yielding growth funds. The stock market will always come back. It may take a few years, but it will come back. And finally, unless you know when you are passing from this earth, always plan for the long term. The last one came from a long time client of hers who had told her of bad health news.

Now I hate to sound like a know-it-all when we discuss retirement and financial stuff but I see friends who have made a lot more money that I working until they are in their late sixties. I see them in bad health, barely dragging themselves to work every day. While thru a little luck and much good advice I am enjoying a comfortable retirement. DON'T leave everything up to a person who makes money off your money. Control your own finances and your own destiny.

Stepping down off my soapbox.

RSKY
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #15  
I pay my bean counter everything I make. She feeds me.
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #17  
One way to measure the worth of your bean counter, compare the after expenses performance of your managed portfolio to the performance of the S&P 500 over a period of years. Or, as mentioned, compare it to the performance of a Vanguard Index Fund for the same time period.

If you aren't beating those things by at least 2-3 percent annually, your bean counter is not worth it.

Have you looked around at Vanguard or TRowePrice for example? Those are both respectable businesses with low fees. They make it pretty easy to manage your investments and TurboTax will download all the IRS filing info you need for taxable accounts and enter it on the correct IRS forms.

You can create an IRA or regular account and roll funds into it effortlessly via electronic transfer. I would do that with some of your savings if for no other reason than to let your bean counter know he needs to be competitive and you are not a captive client. :)
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge? #18  
....

I guess we will just go along for the ride. We don't plan on taking any disbursements until the mandatory ones at age 70. ....


And then he'll talk you into an annuity and keep anything that's left when you die....
 
/ How much does your bean counter charge?
  • Thread Starter
#19  
And then he'll talk you into an annuity and keep anything that's left when you die....

He must be one of the smart ones, about 30% of my portfolio is in annuitys.
 
 
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