How much do you care about pre emissions

[t44e6]

So, this comes up over and over, and it seems there is a percentage of people that seem to be so anti emission, they would pay a significant premium to not have it. Now, I'll give my take; I don't want to have to have them; I don't want to pay more money for the system; and I don't see them as beneficial;

BUT; for everyone saying to avoid anything with emissions, do you always cut the Cats off your car? Are you willing to pay today's market price, for a pre-cat vehicle? For the vast majority of folks, nobody is checking your car or tractor emissions, and your free to modify as you please; but most of us just replace the O2 sensor when it goes out.

Given the choice of equal price; would anyone choose a 10+ year old machine, over a brand new one, just because of emissions?

On most machines, there are ways to bypass the system, or delete it, and as long as you aren't a large commercial operation, who makes enemies, no one is going to hunt you down

Anyways; I wouldn't pay a premium to not have the system, wouldn't bypass or delete, Until a problem comes up; and if a problem with the system came up, I would happily delete or bypass and never loose any sleep

I do not like not being able to keep my own machines in service. Newer machines have many systems unrelated to emissions that use microprocessors and electronics that are to me a huge PITA. If I was running my machines all day every day, I might find the hassle is worth it. But going forward with possible and likely issues with a global supply chain my though is simpler = better. Buying an older machine is always dependent on condition and parts availability.

 

[LouNY]

I

IMO, Emissions are the cost of doing business. Can you do it cheaper - yes*, buy pre-emission equipment. We as a planet, country, province/state have agreed that certain emissions standards should be met. Actively seeking out and overusing outdated equipment is just a legal (but immoral?) loophole to that. Deleting emissions equipment because we don't like it is cheating the rest of us. Whether you get caught or not is not the question. We all have to sleep at night, and whether you do that with a $5000 luxury mattress paid for with pollution, or a second hand one and a clean conscience is for each of us to figure out ourselves.

*Can you actually do it cheaper? Generally we don't directly pay for environmental emissions, but if we did - I don't know. What the cost of a ton of CO, or NOx, or any other pollutants are worth plus the costs of trucking them to a repair shop. What is the cost of little Timmy getting sick, or not being able to play. I don't think you can do it cheaper, you are just "stealing" from the rest of us.

The vermiculite mine in Libby, Montana killed hundreds of people so their owners could make more money and this debate in a lot of ways is no different.

Also, just because someone else does something doesn't mean it's right for us to. ie a 3rd world country, still burning coal for power, and not caring about emissions on their tractors is different than what a lot of us face.

Having said all that I have an old pre-emissions tractor, for the same reason I drive an old chevy pickup. It's 70 HP, 4x4 and 3 years in, including purchasing it's cost me less than $5000 Canadian. It's what I can afford, and I do sleep well at night.

One other thought - in a lot of cases the equipment can run with a failed emissions system. They are de-rated, or otherwise "broke down" because if it wasn't programmed that way so many of us would continue running them (that doesn't apply to plugged cats/ particulate filters). They are there to "force" you to do the right thing.

Each of us contribute our tiny part to either the solution, or the problem.

I see that you are quite comfortable with the over bearing over burdening government bureaucracy that is killing us, you are quite welcome to your opinion but It sure isn't mine.
Delete, delete, delete.
And besides which whats wrong with burning coal, I've been using coal for supplemental heat for years. I may stop next year because of the physical requirements and the cost which has gone through the roof for our good coal that is being exported to that damned china at an alarming rate.

 

[scott_vt]

Good Afternoon JackDaniels,

We all have to sleep at night, and whether you do that with a $5000 luxury mattress paid for with pollution, or a second hand one and a clean conscience is for each of us to figure out ourselves.

Well, comfortable sleep is pretty important ! Im going with the comfortable mattress, and I will sleep fine at night with a clear conscience !

 

[5030]

The cats on my 2003 F150 are clogged up pretty bad at 150K miles right now.

I know people say Seafoam is snake oil but I use their Top End intake cleaner on my Focus RS at every oil change and you'd be amazed at what comes out the tailpipe. Not the Seafoam in the can but the aerosol one with the included straw. You have to put it in post MAF sensor however, it will destroy a MAF sensor.

It works for me just fine.

 

[paulsharvey]

For Cats, and DPF, would "the dip" a homemade peroxide-vinegar combo, commonly used to clean carbon out of suppressors, work?

 

[gckshea]

That's what, 4 states out of 50 that do emissions checks?

Oregon does emissions testing, but only in certain metro counties. So head for the hills and you're fine!

I agree our huge costs of regulation and implementation of poorly designed emissions systems, attached to deadlines, is the equivalent of pissing on a forest fire, and feeling all-so-righteous for doing our part. What stupidity.

 

[dadohead]

We as a planet, country, province/state have agreed that certain emissions standards should be met.

Really??? When was  that vote? I too want clean air but won't sacrifice our economy to carry the rest of the world.

The fact is that unelected bureaucrats are slowly outlawing my gas car to be replaced by EV's. A machine that requires nasty rare earth metals, which are mined in far away countries, processed in China, shipped back, ending with a product that can't be recycled. All the while countries that hate us are encouraging us on! Consumers are NOT asking for this.

 

[Fields_mj]

The cats on my 2003 F150 are clogged up pretty bad at 150K miles right now.

It took the big 3 noticeably longer to figure out emission systems than it took the rest of the world. Ford has been shafting their customers like that for a LONG time. Just because a company knows how to build something the right way, doesn't mean they can't make a LOT more money building and selling a piece of crap. That said, the cat on an '03 being clogged up is not indicative of a design or manufacturing problem. They have an expected life span by nature. Sounds like its time for yours to be changed out.

DEF is a whole other beast. To clarify, I've HEARD that they are getting it figured out finally on the truck platforms, but I have NO personal experience to back that statement up. I've just heard that for the past 5 years or so, people haven't been spending 10s of thousands of $$ to repair their relatively new diesel trucks. I'm not sure if that's because things are getting better, or if people are just getting numb to the fact that they are going to have to drop $20k in repairs every couple of years to keep their tow vehicle on the road...

 

[Edstir]

I have no idea how many. I know California does, so does Ohio and so does Illinois. Michigan don't (I live there) but who else, I have no idea.

I live in a small Illinois town and because of the low population (5K) there is no emission test.

 

[Fields_mj]

Really??? When was  that vote? I too want clean air but won't sacrifice our economy to carry the rest of the world.

The fact is that unelected bureaucrats are slowly outlawing my gas car to be replaced by EV's. A machine that requires nasty rare earth metals, which are mined in far away countries, processed in China, shipped back, ending with a product that can't be recycled. All the while countries that hate us are encouraging us on! Consumers are NOT asking for this.

Couldn't agree more. Realistically, this should be regulated at the state level. The only authority that the federal government has in this arena is the authority to regulate interstate commerce, and the purpose of that clause was to keep commerce regulations fair between the states. It had nothing to do with forcing manufactures to adhere to federal bureaucratic mandates. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about how much progress we made on things like clean air, and I'm glad that we're not just dumping our used oil out in the driveway any more. Now they've taken it so far that we're doing MORE damage to the environment because the only think they will ALLOW the mfgs to make is junk that has to be thrown away and replaced every few years. If the federal government wants to influence manufacturers, they should be offering tax incentives for products that meet their qualifications and standards.