Mowing How long do your drive belts last?

[oosik]

I have a 2003 JD G100 MMM with 54" deck. The OEM deck & drive belts are still in great condition. I have a little over 460 hours on the mower. I mow everything that I can drive over - large multi-flora rose bushes, buck brush, pasture grass and, of course, my lawn. The ability of this unit to mow all this material is one of the main reasons I've never bought a pto rear cutter.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have bought a few belts from these guys.
Vbelts4less - Mower V Belts - V-Belts - Banded V Belts - Kevlar V Belts - Cogged V Belts - Industrial V Belts

Looked mine up on this site and belt including shipping & tax will be less than $50 for a Kevlar belt. Sure beats the $120 my dealer charged me for the first one I had to buy. Last one was a generic Gates belt for $80+. I have went thru a belt every year (about 50 hours). Everyone has just snapped at start up usually during the first couple of mowings in the spring. I have no idea what fabric has been in the previous 3 belts counting the OEM belt but none lasted more than 50 hours. I am on the 100+ hours on the mower now and will see if this Gates belts makes it thru 150 hours or more. I did page mark that website for future reference.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I'm still running my 2003 drive and deck belts from the Ferris factory on my 1000Z.

That's not saying that I haven't had to change a deck pulley or two. {Spindle or idler|

If they wobble at all...they're outta there.

You are really lucky, don't mow much or both. I have only gotten 50 hours out of any of the deck belts including the OEM belt. I keep the tensioner spring set per the OEM recommendations and the mower is always stored inside and cleaned of debris after each use.
Recently I removed the belt guards from the two outside spindles and now they stay much cleaner. The grass would collect under the guard while mowing and just hang there. Now the belt seems to throw most of it off. Now before the Safety Police get too upset, the spindles are almost under the operator platform, there is not much way to get into the belt when mowing and since I am the only one using it, I wont be running the deck while not on the operator platform anyway. Hopefully this little change might get a lot more life from the belt. It also allows better access to the grease zerks, I actually found one on the idler arm swivel that I had never noticed before since it was under that cover. Luckily that doesn't move much and only took one shot of grease to fill it.

 

[Zebrafive]

M163993 is an aramid belt and yes "effective" length is 122.441" (.630 wide, .642 thick, 32deg). The effective part is important because Deere measures the belt on the inside not the outside as some mfg's do so keep that in mind when crossing. Your dealer may not stock this belt because typically it is usually a very long life belt and the avg residential user typically gets many years out of them. Many parts managers like to be able to sell a stocked part at-least 1 time/year. If that does not happen then it is not uncommon for it to be labeled a non stocked item. Aged parts has a staggeringly horrible effect on a profitable parts counter. A good question to ask your parts person is when was your last sale date on this part, it's typically information that they are allowed to share. If they say we sold 2 this year then you have some ground to ask them as to why it is not stocked (and maybe ask for free shipping), if they say we have not sold this belt in two years then don't be terribly surprised that it is not stocked (settle for stock order). As far as blade tip speed (how rpms are measure on these machines) I believe that at operating speeds these residential decks run somewhere in the vicinity of 15,000 - 16,000 rpm but I could be off there, commercial units run at 18,000. Good luck

RE: blade tip speed. It is measured in fpm (feet per minute), not rpm. A 20" blade will make about 5.2' in one revolution. So the spindle will be running in the 3,000 rpm range.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

RE: blade tip speed. It is measured in fpm (feet per minute), not rpm. A 20" blade will make about 5.2' in one revolution. So the spindle will be running in the 3,000 rpm range.

Yep, I should have said fpm not rpm....my bad. I knew that in the back of my mind just couldn't seem to type it.

 

[SPYDERLK]

The Kubota double v-belts last a long time. I haven't ever worn one out with over a thousand hours on some. My Dixie chopper went through lots of belts, but they were usually damaged by a failure of some sort. On my less frequently used machines age usually kills them first.

Is this [on Kub] 1000Hrs of cutting? ... We do a lot of cutting, some pretty severe, and wear one out about every 1k tractor hrs. ~ 700 of that is cutting. - We replace blades every year.

 

[buickanddeere]

John Deere Mower Deck Drive Belt - M163993
122 inches. Ten feet of belt, 8 dollars a foot.

I wonder who makes them for Deere. Might be nice to buy the belt without the expensive
green cardboard on it.

At 80 percent throttle I wonder what the rpm of my mower deck spindles are.
Curious as to how fast this belt is moving. A slow moving belt likely does not build up a lot of heat
so perhaps not such a fancy belt needed. But a fast moving belt, like a tire, probably needs to be well made, perhaps with
extra plies or extras like aramid.

I haven't done it yet but I wonder how little I could pay for a 122 inch belt. I'm guessing in the twenty dollar range. Vs. 84 at JD.
Just like to know what the range is, some kind of sanity check for what seems
like crazy high pricing. Yes I'm sure "real" farmers with combines and threshers see 100 dollar belts all the time.
And some of us have belts I understand might not last long at all, like belts on a chipper. Particularly if something gets stuck.
A chipper certainly sounds like a high speed belt.

If I can't get a better deal on a comparable belt, I'll likely get plundered by the parts desk at JD.
Not looking for lower quality, just better price.

Lot of serpentine belts in cars and machinery today. Two smaller belts instead of one longer one
might well be less expensive.

Gates has made belts a long time. Who else is good? I'd really like to buy a non Chinese belt.
If the reason this belt costs 84 bucks instead of 34 is because it's built here instead of China,
on an important belt, I'd pay the extra. I figured I'd need a new mower belt about every five years, or in my case
6-700 hours. I'm at 300 now and have a spare. Figured I'd go another year and then swap the belts out and hang the used one on the
wall. I suppose I could just wait until it breaks but when does that ever happen at a convenient time.

Which gets back to my original question. How many hours or years do belts last?
We know tires and rubber hoses dry rot; what about belts?

What is the 80% idea and how does it save time, money , fuel and belts? It's a high speed blade slicing an unsupported grass blade. Slow down the mower will work harder making multiple ragged cuts on the blade of grass instead of just one cut.
There people that think they are saving equipmemt by slowing it down and lugging the guts out of a machine .

 

[buickanddeere]

I caught my youngest kid not once , not twice but several times burning the belts off the lawn tractor. Traveling at a crawl with the engine maxed out and lugging. He was told dozens of times that after making the outside round to trim. Turn around the other direction and blow the clippings onto the mowed area of the lawn. Couldn't grasp the concept. His Mother and Grand Mother also do the same. Then complain that something is wrong with the mower.

 

[PatrickS2222]

I caught my youngest kid not once , not twice but several times burning the belts off the lawn tractor. Traveling at a crawl with the engine maxed out and lugging. He was told dozens of times that after making the outside round to trim. Turn around the other direction and blow the clippings onto the mowed area of the lawn. Couldn't grasp the concept. His Mother and Grand Mother also do the same. Then complain that something is wrong with the mower.

I agree 100% with you there - I found that was also happening to me when we first moved here. Our kids would argue over their "right" to mow, such was the novelty of a ride-on mower. :laughing: Unfortunately, that didn't last more than a couple of years! Jusy kidding ..... I enjoy a "put-your-brain-in-neutral" job like the mowing, but sometimes it's a lack of available time that makes it a chore.

I taught them how to mow the way I wanted it done:
Note: Our mower throws to the right.
1. Mow one run parallel to and about 10 yards from the fence.
2. Make a RH 3-point-turn about 5-6 yards from the end.
3. Mow on the left side of the previous strip, so as to throw the cut grass onto what has been mowed.
4. Repeat step 2 at the other end.
5. Repeat step 3 to the end of the strip.
6. By now a tight RH turn can be made, at the same time mowing about a half-cut across the end, as well as not missing anything on turns.
Repeating this at each end results in travelling in an ever-increasing spiral, continuously mowing, not re-cutting your clippings, but also throwing them back toward the middle of the paddock instead of around the edges and under the fences, and if judged well you finish each end when you also finish at the side fence.
Then it's just a matter of repeating the above process, and lastly, mowing down the centre of what is left to begin finishing the remainder of the paddock.
If you mis-calculated distances, a small amount of forward and reverse mowing of the remainder was all that was needed.
This method minimises time involved as unproductive driving at each end is all but eliminated. Also, the finished job looks very neat and tidy. :thumbsup:

One day a friend was visiting to borrow some tools and was surprised to see our younger daughter mowing, so much so he asked how old she is. She was then 10&1/2 years of age, and physically very petite. He commented that "he knows 20year-olds who couldn't wield that machine around like that, and that's just the guys" and was also impressed at what a neat job she was doing. I advised him to not stand still for very long, and that I've reminded her that it's not the 99% that is mown that gets noticed, it's the 1% that is missed.

That is similar to how we mowed lucerne to bale hay. We used a bar-type hay mower which was beside the tractor, so had to minimise our driving on uncut lucerne, but the result was the same. :drink:

 

[daugen]

What is the 80% idea and how does it save time, money , fuel and belts? It's a high speed blade slicing an unsupported grass blade. Slow down the mower will work harder making multiple ragged cuts on the blade of grass instead of just one cut.
There people that think they are saving equipmemt by slowing it down and lugging the guts out of a machine .

I'm really not sure how you connected the dots to make the assumption and conclusion you did. I don't lug my machinery. I don't run it wide open throttle either. Don't do that on my car, my tractor and most things I own. My mower is a water cooled diesel. How could running it at 80% throttle give you the impression I'm lugging it? Do you have experience where running diesels at 80% max rpm has caused damage? What do you think pto speed on your tractor is?
I also sharpen my blades monthly like razors and they don't leave any ragged ends whatsoever. Plus my lawn never ever causes my engine to slow down/bog, or whatever you are worried about. Perhaps you were thinking of someone else.

And when we experimented at my church on our zero turn lowering the rpm from flat out to about 85%, plus keeping sharp blades, we saw a substantial drop in fuel use.
Why waste fuel when you aren't consuming the horsepower? The engine in my mower could drive a 72 deck while I'm running a 60.
And my speed over ground is about 4-5mph, not 10 as some drive their ZT's. So the feed rate is not high.

Next time how about asking me if I have a problem with it instead of insinuating I do? This is not Friendly Politics.

 

[ruffdog]

These are not designed like your car. The mowers have governed speed limiters. Full throttle on your mower is not "wide open" like putting your foot to the floor of your car. Your mower may very well be running harder at 80% than it is at 100% because it must do the same work at a lower rpm. Your throttle setting is just setting the engine speed, not how "open" your intake is or diesel pump output. Your governor does that to maintain the selected rpm.

 

[daugen]

Thanks Ruffdog, but so does my Kubota diesel, but I still won't run it at full rpm.
Why is my diesel lawn mower any different than my tractor?
I'm running the lawn mower at the equivalent of pto speed of the tractor.
I guess we are going to agree to disagree here.
I have 35 engines to tend to; if I had ever had a failure or a problem, I would be so guided.
But I haven't.

 

[daugen]

in hindsight I think I reacted pretty strongly to what BuickandDeere said. Overreacted perhaps. My apologies.
I've been a motorhead for over 50 years, take very good care of my equipment, it's my hobby... ,and for sure understand what lugging an engine means and does.
And if I had been lugging the engine, BuickandDeere would be right.

I always push the throttle all the way to the end, and then bring it back to where the engine note changes. Sure wish garden tractors had tachometers like my tractor.
So I am running somewhere between 80 and 90% throttle, usually closer to 80. And if the grass looks extra thick from lots of rain, I push the throttle up a little bit more, but never ever full throttle. Yes, I understand that is likely governed at 3200 on a 3600 rpm engine. So technically one can't over rev. But you can sure use a lot of fuel at full power. Might be cost effective to a farmer trying to minimize time in the field, but completely unnecessary for a retired guy like me mowing his lawn. A 24hp Yanmar diesel pushing a 60 inch deck has plenty of reserve power.

with sharp blades I bet the cut is better at 12K speed than dull blades at 18k. I can tell they are sharp because the sound is like shredding lettuce, distinctive.
And if the spindles were rotating at approx 3000 rpm at max speed, so they rotate at 2500 rpm at slower speed. Not enough of a difference I'm sure to affect the belts or bearings long term. So I'm not slowing down for that, I'm slowing down to save fuel and for a little less noise. But if I ran at 50% throttle, you bet, likely not very good for the mower, though diesels are pretty tough.

I wonder who has the oldest still operational belt?
my first thought was someone with an old gas powered washing machine, maybe an old pump.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Daugen, my NH 1720 was rated at 23.5 HP at the PTO. This was at around 2250 RPM's or so. The max RPM was rated at 2500. I always tried to keep it at the 540 mark on the tachometer. My new Workmaster is rated up to 2600 RPM's and the 540 PTO speed is set for around 2300 to 2400 RPM's. I can't remember the exact number. One thing that is nice about it is the digital RPM read out. I can get it exactly on 540 RPM's. You can pretty much memorize the engine speed and get within a 100 plus or minus. So in essence you are hitting real close to the 540 RPM mark.

As far as belts go, I ran a Land Pride 5' rear finish mower for 14 years averaging around 70 hours per year. Replaced the belt one time. So far I've run a PRD 7200 Woods going on 9 years with the original belt. Messicks has a price of around $75 for it. Don't know what it's made out of but it has been real dependable. I would think that your 1000 hour mark estimate is pretty accurate. I keep my deck clean and have never replaced a bearing or idler pulley in either unit. Perhaps I'm lucky. I am a grease fanatic.

 

[buickanddeere]

Does the operator's manual say to cut grass at part throttle or full throttle ?

 

[ruffdog]

In the operators manual for the GARDEN TRACTOR mower deck it states the tractor should be at full throttle. It is how they are made. I don't run my big tractor at full throttle either but you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Does the operator's manual say to cut grass at part throttle or full throttle ?

My operators manual states to run my tractor at 540 RPM...
Does not say anything about throttle...
I'm talking about a tractor...
Every post I have seen you respond to is confrontational...
Why?

 

[daugen]

In the operators manual for the GARDEN TRACTOR mower deck it states the tractor should be at full throttle. It is how they are made. I don't run my big tractor at full throttle either but you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

comparing a gas air cooled zrt to a water cooled diesel tractor, YES, apples to oranges. Comparing a water cooled diesel garden tractor to a diesel CUT, I really don't see the difference. Mfg's want you to run gas zt's full blast because they assume you won't keep the airways clean and you need all the air you can possibly get in there, more rpm equals more air. And because they don't want you to complain that your quality of cut isn't any good when you are mowing at 10mph, they have to set a performance standard for the engine that will handle all conditions. Mower makers don't care how much fuel you use, that's your problem, they just want the mower to cut nicely at least as long as the warranty. Remember this is the same industry that has foisted non greasable bearings on us that my local dealer says typically fail within five years. Wonderful repair business. So my feeling is the full throttle setting as stated in many operator manuals is a guide for what to use to maximize performance of the mower. Not to make it last longer. I just don't need to live life at the max.

My JD X750 is a "little" tractor, a SCUT wannabe, and while I didn't have the need for it, could have been equipped with rear pto, three point hitch, just about everything my big tractor has.
I also think the same issues apply to the commercial mowers JD and Kubota put out, the expensive diesel ones with out front mowers. My older brother has had a Kubota diesel front mount mower for almost twenty years, runs at below full throttle and has had zero problems with it. All I can do is report what I have seen with my own eyes. Your experience may vary and if so, it's just as valid.

My late uncle used to have a Honda Civic with a stick that he would shift into fifth gear before he got to 30mph. How that car lasted, how the engine or trans bearings didn't just leap out of that car, none of us knew. He lugged that poor engine so bad we all cringed. After he died, a relative has now driven the car for another ten years, no longer lugging it, but without problems. That engine was lugged so bad I sure wouldn't have wanted it and I completely agree with BuickandDeere that lugging is bad news.

The operators manual on my car demands that I change the brake fluid every two years. I wonder if anyone who owns this model does that. I just changed mine, glad I did due to accumulated moisture content, but unlikely to do it again for another five years. So I think some of these things can be a little flexible.

 

[4570Man]

I run my mowers including my liquid cooled diesel one at the recommend RPM. The cut quality suffers otherwise. I'm really not worried about engine life. Those little diesels way outlast the rest of the mower. I have had zero problems out of my front mount mower running it hard. Those mowers are just build like tanks. The previous owner managed to crack the transmission case, but I'm guessing that didn't have anything to do with how many RPMs he ran it. I have only had to replace 1 blade spindle. That was a greasable spindle on a JD mower that was greased religiously.

 

[daugen]

Perhaps I'm lucky. I am a grease fanatic.
me too, though buying green grease for my JD seemed a bit much to me...
Just hooked a new air grease gun to my barn compressor and frankly it makes greasing fun.
This coming week I tackle the FEL zerks; pup pup pup pup

My LP finish mower has shields that almost totally block off outside dirt from getting in. I still take them off once in a while and blast out what's in there, but it's nothing like what accumulates under the JD garden tractor mower shields. Surprising amount of junk gets jammed under there, in the pit around the pulley. Seems like they could design that better; they leave it open enough to get an air blast gun in, but open too much to keep the dirt and grass out. It's all one form of abrasive or another so it can't be good long term for belts.