How do I read this meter?

[justinramani]

I have a leak in the water line leading to our house. The flow rate is showing .09 GPM with everything shut off at the house. The numbers at the top are Gallons x100. So is the current reading 28,856 or 28,715??? House is still under construction, so we are leaking a lot of water.... The builder has fixed two other leaks in the line, but I found another one today. Line is 2in PVC run about 1400 feet.

 

[speedbump]

What does the 156 signify? My guess the actual reading is 28,700 gallons.

 

[justinramani]

I thought that the 156 reading was counting down to the gallon. Once it reached 999 I figured that the top number would tick to 288....

 

[bcp]

Found this:



Bruce

 

[justinramani]

Thanks Bruce. So do you think the 156 is representing fractions of a gallon?

 

[bcp]

I "think" those are the numbers to the right of the decimal point.

287.156 hundred gallons, or 26715.6 gallons

Bruce

PS: 26715.6 should be 28715.6

 

[CalG]

I "think" those are the numbers to the right of the decimal point.

287.156 hundred gallons, or 26715.6 gallons

Bruce

Watch the meter for a few minutes and see if the decimal reading matches the flow rate.

A gallon a minute is pretty easy to follow. Those numbers could be in units of 1000 for all one can tell.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've had water meter issues before and I found that the very best information came from going to the Water Department and talking to the guy in charge. It's amazing how guys who work there, and different plumbers, all had different answers. Sadly in my case, the wrong type of pipe was installed 20 years before, and I had to install a new line. 1,200 feet of it!!! There where so many little leaks on it that there was no way to find and fix every one. It was glued together schedule 40 going down a hill. The drop in elevation created more water pressure, and the length of the run stretched the pipe to the point of tiny little pin holes it's entire length.

I forget the distance, but there is a point where you have to use slip jointed pipe. It slides in and out of itself as the ground freezes and thaws. This movement in the ground is what breaks water lines. The longer the line, the greater the movement the pipe experiences. My current house is 800 feet from the main water line. It is all gasketed because of the distance and my soil type.

 

[GLyford]

I thought one way around the flex issue was to put in either zig-zags or doglegs every so often? Of course, that's not to say that by the time you've run the extra pipe and labor you wouldn't be ahead anyway to use the right pipe...

 

[justinramani]

The builder thinks that there is too much pressure at the main. He had the plumber install a pressure reducing valve. I guess we will need to wait and see if that makes any difference.

 

[justinramani]

So if the fix does not work, what are your thoughts on sliding 1.5inch hdpe through the existing 2inch pvc? Will 1.5 inch be enough for a 1300 ft run?

 

[EddieWalker]

This is sounding like an Abbot and Costello show. Modern day pipe should not be affected by too much pressure at the main. If properly installed, the pipe should be be able to handle more then the main ever gets to. Remember, the main pipe is plastic too. It's just bigger and more prone to leaking then your smaller pipe. You need to reduce the pressure when it gets to the house if it's above 60 pounds. 40 to 60 psi is your sweet spot where you want your pressure to be. More and you risk blowing out seals or running water through your toilet 24/7. Running another line through the one that is leaking doesn't guarantee that it wont leak either. Those long rolls of pipe are famous for pulling apart at the fittings joining them together. Is the plan to dig down every 300 or 500 feet and connect the pipe with hose clamps by cutting the existing pipe?

What type of pipe is the 2 inch pipe that is leaking?

Why are then not digging it up and doing it all over again properly?

Have you paid them already? DON'T pay for anything until it's done correctly. Sliding smaller pipes into bigger pipes is a very bad joke.

 

[justinramani]

This is sounding like an Abbot and Costello show. Modern day pipe should not be affected by too much pressure at the main. If properly installed, the pipe should be be able to handle more then the main ever gets to. Remember, the main pipe is plastic too. It's just bigger and more prone to leaking then your smaller pipe. You need to reduce the pressure when it gets to the house if it's above 60 pounds. 40 to 60 psi is your sweet spot where you want your pressure to be. More and you risk blowing out seals or running water through your toilet 24/7. Running another line through the one that is leaking doesn't guarantee that it wont leak either. Those long rolls of pipe are famous for pulling apart at the fittings joining them together. Is the plan to dig down every 300 or 500 feet and connect the pipe with hose clamps by cutting the existing pipe?

What type of pipe is the 2 inch pipe that is leaking?

Why are then not digging it up and doing it all over again properly?

Have you paid them already? DON'T pay for anything until it's done correctly. Sliding smaller pipes into bigger pipes is a very bad joke.

Yeah - I don't feel that installing a pressure reducing valve after the meter is going to solve our problems. The current pipe is 2inch pvc with bell ends. I think it's appropriate for the application, but not positive. I would think that HDPE would have been a better choice than gluing pvc pipes every 20ft. We have not yet closed on the house. I won't close until I am 100% sure that the leaks are fixed. They may end up having to re-do it.

How should they have installed the line?

 

[dickfoster]

The builder thinks that there is too much pressure at the main. He had the plumber install a pressure reducing valve. I guess we will need to wait and see if that makes any difference.

I'd go to my local hardware store and buy a water pressure meter. It will only cost a few bucks and you should find one that will attach to a handy hose bib.
Anything over 80 PSI is considered too high. I like 60 for my house.
If it's high you need what they call a pressure regulator. Most of those run around 80 bucks or so and you can set your pressure to your liking and needs. The pressure regulator installs in line where the water service enters your home. Many YouTube videos exist for this.

 

[EddieWalker]

That's pretty good pipe if it's schedule 40. Did they use purple primer first, and then clear heavy duty cement? The primer softens the PVC and allows the cement to melt the two pipes together. The bell on those is twice as long as a regular union, which makes them really good. If it's leaking, either they didn't use the correct primer and cement, or they didn't hold them together after they slid it together and it slid back apart, or somebody else damaged the pipe after it was installed. If it was damaged, I would think that you would have a nice, easy to find river coming out of the ground. Same thing if they didn't hold the pipes together, but there is always that in between stage where it slid out just enough to not get a good seal. Either way, there is no practical way to fix a poorly connected joint.

In my opinion, they need to do it again.

If your soil is stable, the pipe they used should be fine. It's not my first choice, but it is very good stuff.

HPDE and all the other black poly pipes have a very strong history of failure over time. They just can't handle ground movement. You are also relying completely on the integrity of the pipe clamps used to connect it together.

PEX is better then any of that black pipe, but it's also going to cost a lot more then Schedule 40.

Have you talked to the Water Department and asked them what they use in your area? I've found that they are very generous in giving out advice on how to do it right, and what they have done over the years that failed. Everything they know is from trial and error. It's shocking how much water leaks out of bad pipes every day!!!

 

[justinramani]

Eddie, this is the pipe that they used. They did use purple primer and clear cement. We did install a 1.5 inch water meter, which may account for the high pressure.

 

[Streetcar]

This is sounding like an Abbot and Costello show. Modern day pipe should not be affected by too much pressure at the main. If properly installed, the pipe should be be able to handle more then the main ever gets to. Remember, the main pipe is plastic too. It's just bigger and more prone to leaking then your smaller pipe. You need to reduce the pressure when it gets to the house if it's above 60 pounds. 40 to 60 psi is your sweet spot where you want your pressure to be. More and you risk blowing out seals or running water through your toilet 24/7. Running another line through the one that is leaking doesn't guarantee that it wont leak either. Those long rolls of pipe are famous for pulling apart at the fittings joining them together. Is the plan to dig down every 300 or 500 feet and connect the pipe with hose clamps by cutting the existing pipe?

What type of pipe is the 2 inch pipe that is leaking?

Why are then not digging it up and doing it all over again properly?

Have you paid them already? DON'T pay for anything until it's done correctly. Sliding smaller pipes into bigger pipes is a very bad joke.

Eddie
Plastic water main is not everywhere, I have ductile iron

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie, this is the pipe that they used. They did use purple primer and clear cement. We did install a 1.5 inch water meter, which may account for the high pressure.

View attachment 466431

Do you see on the pipe where it has the initials DWV on it? That means the pipe is to be used for Drain Waste and Venting. I'm no expert on this, but it is my understanding that this is not allowed for a water supply line. It's a different type of PVC. I wound not have used it for a water supply!!!!!

Again, go to your local water department and talk to them. I believe you have the wrong type of pipe in the ground.

When I googled it, I found out that it is not a solid PVC pipe. It has a PVC layer on the outside and the inside, with a foam inner layer. Again, this is the wrong pipe to supply water to your house and it needs to be replaced with the proper pipe. Did a licensed plumber do this or some kid the Contractor hired?

 

[justinramani]

Eddie,

The pipe is also marked nsf-pw doesn't that mean that it is also rated for potable drinking water???

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't know those letters. When I buy water line, it doesn't not say DWV on it. That is in another stack. I use DWV for drains and venting because it's cheaper.