House flooding from nowhere?

[dave1949]

If food coloring doesn't stain carpet or tile grout ... you could put some food coloring in the dishwasher and run it. If the color shows up, it had to originate on the drain side.
Dave.

 

[kenstrac]

Would it be possible to pull the dishwasher out and attach a hose to the drain and let the water go outside and check for leaks ,then take hot water from the faucet and put it down the dishwasher drain,that would tell you if its the dishwasher line giving you problems, could be a water line only leaking when the solenoid valve closes on the dishwasher.

 

[dmccarty]

I will ditto what Dave suggested except maybe the more specific dyes made for leaks. I think you might have to have a black light to see them as well. They MIGHT have these AND a moisture detector at a rental store.

I would hope the leak company that was out had access to these things.

That warm spot is bothersome. If the warm spot comes and goes with the leak it has to be related. Which seems to get back to the dishwasher....

A dye in the dishwasher while it cycles might be interesting. But how is the warm water getting from the pantry to the kitchen ONLY when the dishwasher is run?

I am wondering if there is a large crack in the slab the channels the water from the leak to where the water surfaces at the carpet. With the tile on top of the slab you would not see the crack.

But what is causing the leak? Could a running fridge heat up the water in a crack under the fridge? Seems unlikely.

Which way does the floor slope? I had a toilet overflow in our city house which was on a slab. Thankfully the slab sloped to the utility room which had vinyl flooring. The water flowed from the bathroom under the sill plate and into the utility room where I was able to stop the water before it got to carpet.

Is the leak flowing from the source towards pantry wall and then somehow, crack in concrete?, the flowing back towards the carpet?

Later,
Dan

 

[EddieWalker]

Do they have pets? Are you sure it's water? hahaha

Eddie

 

[jinman]

Do they have pets? Are you sure it's water? hahaha

That's funny Eddie. On Saturday when the plumber was there, he noticed a wet spot by the back door. My grandkids thought that their little dog had had an accident, but my son-in-law looked at it and remembered that he had set down wet carpet padding there while he opened the door.

I'm adding a very rough sketch of the downstairs layout with the stairs going up to the 2nd floor. I've used a dark red line to show where the wall is that is leaking from under the baseboard. the red circle shows how far the water ran out and soaked the entrance carpet, some of the office, and some of the living area. I tried to show the location of the dishwasher and where the warm floor is located.

There have been some great suggestions here like kenstrac's suggestion about the dishwasher removal and testing. Use of dye would also be a great way to find this at this point when the amount of flooding can be contained and the carpet is already pulled back away from the leak. I'm pretty sure if the house were mine, I'd already have this figured out.

My daughter/son-in-law have had multiple issues all stacking up with their house and cars lately. Lightening wiped out their AC system and then after getting it fixed, another controller board failed. Their refrigerator is not working well and my SIL's truck suddenly developed a starter problem. Now they are down to one car. With my SIL and three teenagers working jobs plus all four kids in school, my daughter is almost doing full-time taxi service. I live 80 miles away and just can't help even though I did offer a car temporarily. In the last three days, she has had the AC people out, put the truck in the shop, and now has this leak problem. I don't even want to call for fear I'll just add to her hassle. I'm just waiting until she tells me what is going on. As soon as she tells me what they found, I'll let everyone know. With the cold weather coming in tonight, she needs heat and good water. I'm helping financially as well as with moral support, so hopefully this will be resolved soon. She knows I'd be there in a flash if needed.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Jim, I accessed the google volcanic activity pages and found that a hundred years ago there was volcanic activity in the exact region where your daughter/SIL's subdivision is located. More recently there has been renewed seismic activity and the earths core temperatures have risen by several degrees causing warm water spouts to rise to the earths surface in the most inopportune places.

Don

PS: Place this post in the far-fetched column.

 

[jinman]

Jim, I accessed the google volcanic activity pages and found that a hundred years ago there was volcanic activity in the exact region where your daughter/SIL's subdivision is located. More recently there has been renewed seismic activity and the earths core temperatures have risen by several degrees causing warm water spouts to rise to the earths surface in the most inopportune places.

Don

PS: Place this post in the far-fetched column.

Don, I'm sure that's it! I'VE CALLED HER AND DEMANDED SHE EVACUATE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

 

[jinman]

The mystery is over. The leak has been located. The detection company pressurized the hot water line with air and could hear it hissing under the pantry room where water was coming out from under the baseboard. They believe water was travelling down around the hot water line going to the kitchen and that it found a place to pool under the tile in the kitchen walkway. It also seems that the hot water line did not leak until it heated up. Therefore, water had to be used in the kitchen to bring the temperature of the pipe up high enough to bring on a leak. Since water to the upstairs bathrooms and other locations did not flow through this line, the pinhole leak did not form. The reason no water ran at the meter was that the dishwasher and kitchen sink had to be running to heat up the pipe and bring on the leak. My daughter said you could clearly hear their leak with the equipment when they pressurized the line.

Now they have to drill down through the floor to make a repair. It's too far from the edge of the house to tunnel in. They aren't sure if the leak is going to be in a slab foundation beam. If it is, it will cost much more to fix. Also, there is a method called "E-Patch" which injects epoxy into a line without having to open the floor. This method has a 5-yr guarantee and they are checking if it is allowed by code. It would be the cheapest and least disturbance if it is allowed.

The insurance company has been very helpful. After their adjuster took a look at their houses wiring and plumbing, they told my daughter that all repairs including new carpet would be covered. They also suggested to her that she get in touch with the building code folks and have them do an inspection. It turns out that the builder didn't use shields on the studs over wire and plumbing runs. A search on the internet showed that this particular builder had multiple lawsuits against them for poor building practices and is on the verge of bankruptcy. I have not confirmed this; it's just what my daughter told me she had discovered.

So, how they will proceed is still up in the air. They are lucky to have a good insurance company. It's a super hassle no matter what turns out.

On the air conditioner, it seems that it failed previously on its own and my daughter and husband spent over $1000 on repairs. This failure is two control boards failing and will be a little over $600 to repair. The insurance adjuster seemed to think that wiring might have something to do with this although I don't know how (intermittent contact? wire gage too small?). I'm not sure of the brand of AC. It will be fixed today and they will have heat for the upcoming cold spell.

My SIL's truck is back on the road as well. Things are lookin' up.

 

[dmccarty]

What stands out to me in the drawing is that the clothes washer is really removed from the wet area. And that the dishwasher does not have wet carpet right next to it.

Then there is that wall with the bathroom. It seems like the bathroom vent and/or plumbing are in that wall. Is there a bathroom on the second floor that might be using the same wall for the vent and/or plumbing runs? Is the shower the kids are using near that wall?

Maybe the warm tile floor is a red herring regarding the leak....

Later,
Dan

 

[Bird]

Whew, glad they found the leak, and glad they have good insurance, but the repair doesn't sound like any fun at all.