Grapple heavier grapple or not

[kattywumpus]

If the concern is minimizing the lost of semi-flexible material I really believe the operator skill and technique plays a far greater role in minimizing the lost of material from the grapple then the grapple width. As I'm sure all grapple operators have experience, long roots, vines, and some specie of tree branches can easily hang down from not only the side but also the front and bottom of the grapple between the tines if care is not taken when loading the grapple. I personally would not choose a wider grapple just in an attempt to minimize the loss of material during transport.

My reasoning for purchasing a 60" vs 48" or even wider grapple was to strike a balance between lift capacity, the weight that can be lifted, and the grapple capacity to carry bulk items like a brush. My FEL lift capacity is 2,761 lbs, since G Man466's FEL capacity is over 400 lbs less I can understand his decision to go with the little lighter 48". Note the Gator 60" is only 42 lbs more.

 

[jake98]

I'd bet that my grapple is the most under-powered one of the group, and in my experience lifting ability is rarely a concern. It depends what you are going to try to use it for. I think of it as a tool to move brush and trees etc., and an occational rock, not boulders. But that's just me, and my little CK25..

 

[jake98]

if care is not taken when loading the grapple.


I don't get that..

I'm afraid this forum steers people into buying undersized grapples for silly reasons, like 'you can stick the grapple in a couple feet, where the tires won't follow..', and 'you might be able to move stonehenge'.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

About a month ago I bought a cheap light-duty Versatech grapple at an auction for $600. It kinda looks like Island's Millonzi, but is 66" wide. Haven't got to test it out as I still haven't installed the SCV kit I bought last summer. From the beginning I assumed I would cut off the 2 outer tines to convert it to a 48" grapple to save on weight on my little 28 hp CUT. Maybe now I'll just leave it as is to see if the weight is really that much of a problem. Have to admit though that I find Island's arguments for a smaller grapple to be pretty compelling and see a likely modification in that grapple's future.

 

[kattywumpus]

Jake98, believe it or not I have already hit the lift capacity of my FEL with the grapple. I have one tree stump that I just can’t move with the grapple. I figure the 60” Gator with the extra tines is approximately 500 lbs, so I should have a lift capacity around 2260 lbs. I’m sure my FEL with grapple is operating near that capacity due to some of the other items I moved, but it just can’t pick up that red oak stump. It’s out of the hole so I know there are no roots still connect. Moving a stump with a grapple is so much quicker and easier then chaining it up and dragging it, but it looks like the drag pain is coming.

As usual the key to implement purchase is first evaluated how you’re going to use it. Moving hardwood stumps and large rocks can really stress the FEL capacity, so I would recommend a lighter grapple to maximum the lift capacity. If all you’re going move is brush all today then get a larger grapple to maximum the cubic feet carry capacity.

 

[foggy1111]

if care is not taken when loading the grapple.


I don't get that..

I'm afraid this forum steers people into buying undersized grapples for silly reasons, like 'you can stick the grapple in a couple feet, where the tires won't follow..', and 'you might be able to move stonehenge'.

Keep talking....pretty soon you'll convince yourself you have the right grapple. :laughing::laughing:

That extra leverage of a wider grapple on a heavy log....or when pushing with a corner, etc. could be pretty hard on your loader frame....IMO.

 

[jake98]

About a month ago I bought a cheap light-duty Versatech grapple at an auction for $600. It kinda looks like Island's Millonzi, but is 66" wide. Haven't got to test it out as I still haven't installed the SCV kit I bought last summer. From the beginning I assumed I would cut off the 2 outer tines to convert it to a 48" grapple to save on weight on my little 28 hp CUT. Maybe now I'll just leave it as is to see if the weight is really that much of a problem. Have to admit though that I find Island's arguments for a smaller grapple to be pretty compelling and see a likely modification in that grapple's future.

I think you'll be glad you waited on the torching, I am.

 

[jake98]

Keep talking....pretty soon you'll convince yourself you have the right grapple. :laughing::laughing:

That extra leverage of a wider grapple on a heavy log....or when pushing with a corner, etc. could be pretty hard on your loader frame....IMO.

Lifiting logs, it makes no difference, actually it's safer for the loader because of the grapple's weight being centered, and the amount of uncentered weight is more limited. And loaders are designed to push when loading, my grapple is only 3" wider than the bucket. That's another made up non-issue. If I could afford one made of titanium, that would be the right one, if it was wide enough.. edit.. and had two independent grapples.

 

[kattywumpus]

if care is not taken when loading the grapple.

I don't get that..

I'm afraid this forum steers people into buying undersized grapples for silly reasons, like 'you can stick the grapple in a couple feet, where the tires won't follow..', and 'you might be able to move stonehenge'.

As with all tools the operator's skill and technique plays a large part in how efficient the tool is used and the finial results, it does not matter if it's a hammer or grapple. I have seen guys that call themselves carpenters that are really clueless about building a straight wall or water proofing a roof. Is this the hammer fault? Was the hammer too heavy or light? No, the problem is with the carpenter or operator not the hammer.

I'm lucky in that I grew up working on a farm and learned how operate many different machinery. So when tractor seat time comes I remember many of those hard lessons. Plus many of my relatives and neighbor operate farms or landscape business, and my father is a retired pubic works superintendent for a large Maine city. So I get plenty of advise! Sometime more then I want but it's all good!

One of the best tips I learn was to build an immediate pile. Think of the immediate pile as a sandwich or burrito. The bread is rigid material like logs and small trees. The filling is flexible material like roots, vines, and small tree branches. When cleaning an area I will first pickup logs and small downed trees. I will drop this material against a large tree near the area I'm cleaning, preferably two large trees about a tractor width apart. Dropping material against the trees help force all this long material in straight line or horizontal to grapple insertion zone. Then I scrape up roots and smaller loose material like small evergreen branches or very small logs and stumps and drop on the pile. Then I drop some more long rigid material on top of the pile. Then for finial transport I force the grapple in the pile against the trees. This packs the burrito. Then closing thumb further packs it and pins it like a toothpick in a sandwich. I will then rock the grapple up and down to get any loose material to drop. This process does add extra steps to the disposal process it save time because I can get more material in the grapple which mean fewer trips and have fewer problems with material falling from the grapple during the long transport to the disposal area. If I was dumping the material in a trailer and truck I would not perform this process.

Just one of many techniques.

 

[IslandTractor]

Jake I don't know what you are doing with your quotes of other posts but it makes it hard to track what you are saying vs what you are quoting. It is also some how defeats the normal quote system so I cannot quote you. What I do is hit the blue balloon and then edit within the Quote marks being sure not to disturb the coding at the beginning or end.

That said, I wanted to point out that weight centering with logs is not dependent on the grapple width at all. From the loaders perspective a perfectly balanced log on a one foot grapple would be the least likely to cause twisting. The wider the grapple the easier it is to lift an imbalanced load.

Also, I have been busy grappling all day so haven't participated but I agree with Kattywumpus's points. If you really only collect loose brush then a wide grapple has advantages but most people seem to use grapples for a variety of tasks and in that situation the advantages of a narrower lighter grapple are soon evident.

 

[IslandTractor]

About a month ago I bought a cheap light-duty Versatech grapple at an auction for $600. It kinda looks like Island's Millonzi, but is 66" wide. Haven't got to test it out as I still haven't installed the SCV kit I bought last summer. From the beginning I assumed I would cut off the 2 outer tines to convert it to a 48" grapple to save on weight on my little 28 hp CUT. Maybe now I'll just leave it as is to see if the weight is really that much of a problem. .

If I were in your shoes I'd use it as is. Although I argue for 48" as ideal, I wouldn't mess with the structure of the grapple if I could avoid it. The outside bottom tines on my grapple are welded to the ends of the frame and appear to be engineered to support more than the inner tines.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

If I were in your shoes I'd use it as is. Although I argue for 48" as ideal, I wouldn't mess with the structure of the grapple if I could avoid it. The outside bottom tines on my grapple are welded to the ends of the frame and appear to be engineered to support more than the inner tines.

Yeah, I thought about that too (the outer tines being stronger.) Figured I could have somebody that knows what they are doing cut the outer tines off first, then the next ones in and replace them with the original outer ones. I know it would be a lot of work, but the grapple may be near useless if it way too heavy. Plus, I am pretty nervous about tweaking the loader arms. I'll start out with it the way it is and then go from there.

 

[dstig1]

Yeah, I thought about that too (the outer tines being stronger.) Figured I could have somebody that knows what they are doing cut the outer tines off first, then the next ones in and replace them with the original outer ones. I know it would be a lot of work, but the grapple may be near useless if it way too heavy. Plus, I am pretty nervous about tweaking the loader arms. I'll start out with it the way it is and then go from there.

You'll probably only save 50-100 lbs that way, in my guessing. Hardly seems worth it... If it's way too heavy, then one set of tines won't make it much happier.

 

[IslandTractor]

Regarding Jake's point about needing to raise the grapple to travel...here are a few photos that demonstrate what I was talking about regarding needing to raise it to see regardless of grapple width. With a full load of brush you just cannot see where you are going unless you raise the grapple. I don't raise it high, just to the intermediate position. If I am on a slope I keep it low and peek around the front tires to see where I am going (slowly).

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

You'll probably only save 50-100 lbs that way, in my guessing. Hardly seems worth it... If it's way too heavy, then one set of tines won't make it much happier.

You guys may be right, PLUS I really don't know how much it actually weighs. It just seemed pretty heavy for the short time I had it on the tractor. I'll try it as is and be careful not to mess up the arms.

 

[IslandTractor]

You guys may be right, PLUS I really don't know how much it actually weighs. It just seemed pretty heavy for the short time I had it on the tractor. I'll try it as is and be careful not to mess up the arms.

You won't likely have any trouble. Your tractor is not very heavy or powerful so you are unlikely to do any damage. Use it aggressively just make sure you don't put twisting forces on it if possible. Line things up and go straight in and out. Balance loads, especially logs/trees etc.

 

[universalgirl]

Jake98, believe it or not I have already hit the lift capacity of my FEL with the grapple. I have one tree stump that I just can稚 move with the grapple. I figure the 60 Gator with the extra tines is approximately 500 lbs, so I should have a lift capacity around 2260 lbs. I知 sure my FEL with grapple is operating near that capacity due to some of the other items I moved, but it just can稚 pick up that red oak stump. It痴 out of the hole so I know there are no roots still connect.

Moving a stump with a grapple is so much quicker and easier then chaining it up and dragging it, but it looks like the drag pain is coming.

As usual the key to implement purchase is first evaluated how youæ±*e going to use it. Moving hardwood stumps and large rocks can really stress the FEL capacity, so I would recommend a lighter grapple to maximum the lift capacity. If all youæ±*e going move is brush all today then get a larger grapple to maximum the cubic feet carry capacity.

Have you ever used a long bottom stump grapple? It weighs about 700lbs and opens 50 1/2".

 

[kattywumpus]

No, I have not. It looks like Gator's Extreme Stump Grapple. I am sure it's great for stump removal but it would not help my situation. I had no problem removing the stump, the problem is the front end loader (FEL) can not lift it for transport. The grapple I own weight is approximately 500 lbs. Using a 700 lbs grapple would further reduce my FEL lift capacity.

 

[kattywumpus]

Regarding Jake's point about needing to raise the grapple to travel...here are a few photos that demonstrate what I was talking about regarding needing to raise it to see regardless of grapple width. With a full load of brush you just cannot see where you are going unless you raise the grapple. I don't raise it high, just to the intermediate position. If I am on a slope I keep it low and peek around the front tires to see where I am going (slowly).

As usual everyone's situation is different. I do not need to raise my loads high because I'm driving down a tree lined path or driveway so I don't need to see immediately in front of the tractor. As long as I am between the trees I'm on the path. Also the path and driveway are somewhat smooth so I do not need to be concerned about uneven ground catching the grapple. Because the load is low I can see 75 feet in front of the tractor so I can avoid the random drunk moose!

 

[ManAtArms]

...
I know Jake and others are happy with their wider heavier grapples but I've still in five years never seen anyone with a bigger grapple post a photo or describe something they were able to do that our little bitty 48 inch grapples cannot do just as well....

I have a 72" Gator on my tractor (dual arms). I can see there would be times that a 48" with a single arm would be useful, but for most of what I do I would much rather have the 72". I sell firewood and maintain my farm. Here's some examples where I beleive a wider grapple is a better choice than a smaller one:

-skimming the ground to clean up debris, usually firewood splitting scraps. In this case I can clear a wider path and pick up more material in each bite.

-picking up split firewood and moving it from A to B...again I can get a bigger scoop with the wider grapple...two arms helps clamp down on the wood.

-Picking up blocks and moving them towards the splitter. I cut my logs into 16" blocks and move them to my splitter using the grapple. In this situation, the wider grapple and dual arms is very nice...I can get a big load and clamp it good, even if uneven.

-loading the grapple with small -medium boulders...I have a lot of land that I've been grading and leveling...We have very rocky soil and I could easily have to move a few hundred 8-15" boulders in an acre. The 72" with dual arms allows me to push these boulders around to to make a pile without hitting my wheels, get a bigger bite of the pile and clamp it more securely for transport.

That being said, the smaller grapple could be nice for a more "concentrated force" task, where the 72" couldn't get under something...but I have the backhoe and hydro thumb for those tasks. My backhoe has more breakout force anyway.

As island pointed out, the heavy duty 72" grapple is, well, heavier, so my net lift is not as great as it would be with a 300lbs grapple. There have been quite a few times that I can't lift a large boulder with the grapple...however I'm not sure if 300 lbs. would make a difference either way.



That's my .02

-Mark.