Grapple decisions....

[joshua5438]

I am about to purchase a Kioti CK3510SE and wanting to also purchase a grapple. I have read tons of info on them but trying to decide if one is better than the other when it comes to brush grapple versus rock grapple? It seems the bucket with the tines spaced closer together would be ideal for sorting rock but does it become an issue with working with brush and logs? Just looking for personal experience and opinions.

 

[Jchonline]

Make sure you get the 3rd function kit installed on the tractor by the dealer if possible. If you want the best quality/value proposition EA (Everythingattachments.com) make high quality, lightweight grapples. They should be on your list to evaluate. I recommend trying to get one that is around the same width as your tractor (mine is a few inches less, I like it). Consider the weight of the grapple and what you need to lift with the FEL. Remember the grapple's weight counts against the weight your FEL can lift.
The best answer is to get the strongest, lightest grapple you can for the tasks you have. Looks like your FEL model is KL4020, so 1930# at max height is your limit. Just subtract the weight of the grapple from that and you will have your final weight the FEL can lift. It can lift more the closer you are to the ground.

I went with the brush grapple. I was afraid of bending the longer bottom fork tines with my machine (at least the Landpride options available). Now with EA, you are going to have to wait a few months, as their manufacturing is backed up. There are other options (check out Titan) that are much cheaper but I will leave it to others to comment on their experience with those options.

I am pretty sure you will be able to pick up anything you want with it, no matter the configuration. It just takes some getting used to. Some have the dual top lids, so if you have an uneven load it can still get both sides. I went with 1 top lid. As long as you are square and not torquing a closed grapple it will be hard to mess up. Great video from EA on what not to do with a grapple. Ted and those folks also have a number of great videos on different grapples. Pick the ones where they are actually using them (not just showing features) so you get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

 

[ch1ch2]

Can't help you much on this one.
I have one with 9, 18 inch spears on a 6 foot grapple with a 1 piece top clamp.
My son has one with 7, 11 inch curved tips on a 5 foot grapple with a two piece top clamp.
I like mine better, he likes his better. I do like the two piece top better.

 

[HCJtractor]

What do you plan to use it for? That’s a key question. I use mine mainly for cleaning up chain saw debris (fallen trees, collecting cut off limbs or saplings), clearing land by pushing down trees (max 6 or 8”), uprooting the root ball, and making piles. I can also dig a little with it, grab and move big rocks, even scratch up the ground to prepare a rough seed bed. For those purposes, I consider mine ideal.

 

[TractorNH]

I have an EA dual lid 72" with the long tines. I agree with your statement that the tines spaced closely together would get clogged with debris if you're doing anything other than sorting rock. I looked at at least 6 different grapple manufacturers before I decided on the EA. All of them were heavier, the Titan I believe was almost 300 lbs heavier. One thing that drove me away from the Titan was the lack of customer support for replacement parts after the sale. I saw a posting (I believe it was on TBN) where someone needed a replacement cylinder. Titan wouldn't sell them one and they were an odd size not easy to find.

The EA is absolutely top notch, USA built, and their customer service is amazing too. Delivery times have been 2 months or less since they opened their expanded factory.

 

[oosik]

I bought my Land Pride grapple (SGC 1560) & WR Long third function valve five years ago. Had the dealer install it.

The SGC 1560 is called a rock & root grapple. Short thick tough tines. I have absolutely no brush to worry about on my 80 acres. I use it to move LARGE chunks of pine log, BIG rocks, back grading to level and smooth and limb cleanup for dead trees I fall. I've used it for everything - including pushing snow banks. Never given me a moments problems and about the only "damage" to the grapple - I've knocked some of the powdercoat paint off the tips of the tines.View attachment 577882View attachment 577883

 

[mred2]

I also have a two piece top. With logs that will vary, both side may not close together. I have a 72" titan and love it. It was what I could get at the time and have used it a lot with no problems. I do have the WR Long 3rd function installed by the dealer. It looks and works good.
I do believe that the EA dual lid may be a better grapple, but I could not get one in the time frame that I wanted it. My tractor handles the weight with no problems and I pick up some really large logs.

 

[oosik]

Joshua - there is one other item that I would bring to your attention. Since you will be getting a grapple - - be sure you get an OEM grill guard. Then if your OEM guard is like mine was - guaranteed to stop 40 gallon garbage cans and larger objects - its a good idea to modify the guard. I used expanded metal.

New tractor grills or radiators or batteries ARE expensive. When you work with brush, limbs, trash - - good likelihood that "something" will find one or more of the previously mentioned items. Mine is expanded metal - welded onto the OEM guard.


View attachment 577946View attachment 577947

 

[Turbys_1700]

EA makes one of the best lightweight grapples on the market. Others out there are good too. It boils down to how much you want to spend. Higher quality units use better steel that is less resistant to bending but you pay more.

I opted for a low cost 72" dual lid unit made by American Attachments. It uses mild steel and is lightweight,. At 72" and dual lids it does what I need. If put into extreme use it would not hold up. The price was very attractive.

For my use I prefer a longer tined bottom unit versus the clam shell type.

Keep us posted on your progress. The front 3rd function kit is expensive. You could save a little in labor if you do it yourself. You could opt to run the grapple from your rear remotes. Not the best solution but a cost effective one.

 

[TractorNH]

Joshua - there is one other item that I would bring to your attention. Since you will be getting a grapple - - be sure you get an OEM grill guard. Then if your OEM guard is like mine was - guaranteed to stop 40 gallon garbage cans and larger objects - its a good idea to modify the guard. I used expanded metal.

New tractor grills or radiators or batteries ARE expensive. When you work with brush, limbs, trash - - good likelihood that "something" will find one or more of the previously mentioned items. Mine is expanded metal - welded onto the OEM guard.


View attachment 577946View attachment 577947

oosik, I stole your idea and modified my grill guard too. I used the OEM grill guard on mine as well. This is a mod best done BEFORE you have to replace a grille.

 

[thekkfan]

oosik, I stole your idea and modified my grill guard too. I used the OEM grill guard on mine as well. This is a mod best done BEFORE you have to replace a grille.

View attachment 577955 View attachment 577956 View attachment 577957 View attachment 577958

Is that 3/4" x #9 or #13 expanded sheet?

 

[joshua5438]

Thanks for all the info and tips. The CK3510SE comes with the third function valve and the grill guard. I will definitely look at adding the mesh to the guard. My plan is to use it to move felled trees, piles of railroad ties and lots of brush. I will occasionally need to dig up stumps and rocks. I also have a few places where trash has been dumped, lots of misc items, plastic pallets, car parts, concrete, bricks, cement blocks, etc... All this was left behind from previous owners. I am leaning toward the root grapple after watching more videos as the wider spacing of the tines seems to be a better all around tool. Is that a correct assumption?

My local dealer has Tiger Attachments grapples. Has anyone had experience with that brand? Cannot find a lot of information about them online.

 

[oosik]

Josh - that's one item where you should have a whole lot of choices - grapples. My grapple & 3rd function valve were installed by the Kubota dealer. I was planning on an ANBO grapple ( company is 70 miles north of me in Colville, WA) but I got a good deal from the Kubota dealer. The tine spacing on mine is 6". If I come straight down - jaws wide open - push down hard - close jaws - I will come up with a huge pile of dirt and not loose much thru the 6" spacing.

People will spend an inordinate amount of time discussing tine spacing. About the only time I would say that tine spacing was critical - moving gravel - and there a grapple falls on its face. Unless you are talking about some unusual design or like the 8900 pound grapple I saw while visiting ANBO - most spacing is - 6" or 9" or 12".

ANBO is unique. They have a whole battery of standard grapples and then they will work with you to design just about anything your little heart desires. As long as it follows acceptable engineering principles and procedures.

I choose the rock & root style because I don't have even a wheelbarrow load of brush on my property. Its all large pine logs, big rocks and back dragging. Rock & root or clam shell tends to have shorter, stouter tines. And at least with the Land Pride - it has significantly more bracing and cross bracing then their "brush grapples".

The costs involved in mine - WR Long 3rd function valve - $1200 installed Land Price SGC 1560 - $3175 installed. This is a very heavy duty grapple - thick, short, heavy tines and welded cross bracing everywhere. Weight - 820 pounds. The weight of the grapple cuts my FEL lifting capacity down to a tad over 3200 pounds.

Tractor NH - that's a nice job. Your expanded metal is a heavier gauge than mine. And theKKfan - I have NO idea what gauge or calibre my expanded metal is - - maybe Tractor NH know what he used.

I read a few posts here on TBN where guys had perforated radiators, grills and batteries with limbs, stobs and trash. That mesh was done immediately after the tractor returned with the installed grapple.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

This is a very heavy duty grapple - thick, short, heavy tines and welded cross bracing everywhere. Weight - 820 pounds. The weight of the grapple cuts my FEL lifting capacity down to a tad over 3200 pounds.

Your M6040 will lift over 4,000 pounds?

I don't think our M6-141 would lift that much.
Travis

 

[John_Mc]

Those of you who use expanded metal over your brush guard: Do you ever wish you had not welded it on? I'm debating whether it is worth the trouble to make mine a pin-on frame, rather than welding it on.

 

[oosik]

Well - lets see. I will once again check the power lift charts for my LA1153 FEL. OK - it says:

1) at a distance of 500mm( ~20") off the ground
2) at a point 400mm( ~16" ) forward of the pivot pins - a point 4" forward of the very back of the grapple jaws when open half way
3) this FEL/grapple is rated to lift 1950 Kg ( ~ 4300 pounds)

Now - using my math skills - - 4300 pounds minus the grapple weight of 820 pounds equals approximately - - 3480 pounds.

I have absolutely no idea nor interest in what a M6-141 will lift. The figures above come directly from my Kubota Front Loader Operators Manual for Model LA1153 - page 8 - - power lift chart.

Travis - check your published loader charts in the FEL Op Manual. You have one chart for when the FEL is set for max lift and another for when the FEL is set for max height. My FEL is set for max lift capacity.

Where most folks get confused - - Kubota posts lift ratings for their FELs at a point 800mm( ~ 32 ") forward of the pivot pins. That is way out at the very lip of a bucket - if that's what you have on your FEL.

The very back of the mouth of my grapple jaws is only 12" forward of the FEL pivot pins. Thats why I use a calculated figure of 16" forward of the pivot pins. Thats a point 4" forward of the very back of the jaws of the grapple.

All my noodling and calculations can't be that far off. I have several times lifted a fresh cut green Ponderosa pine log - ten feet long, ave 36" in diameter with a calculated weight of 3200 pounds. Granted, I only lift it so the grapple is about 6" off the ground - but at that weight - - thats more than sufficient.

 

[oosik]

John_Mc - - No, I'm VERY glad its welded on. Limbs & associated crap can hit that grill guard and expanded mesh pretty hard. I don't know if a pin on system would stand up to the abuse.

 

[thekkfan]

Well - lets see. I will once again check the power lift charts for my LA1153 FEL. OK - it says:

1) at a distance of 500mm( ~20") off the ground
2) at a point 400mm( ~16" ) forward of the pivot pins - a point 4" forward of the very back of the grapple jaws when open half way
3) this FEL/grapple is rated to lift 1950 Kg ( ~ 4300 pounds)

Now - using my math skills - - 4300 pounds minus the grapple weight of 820 pounds equals approximately - - 3480 pounds.

I have absolutely no idea nor interest in what a M6-141 will lift. The figures above come directly from my Kubota Front Loader Operators Manual for Model LA1153 - page 8 - - power lift chart.

Travis - check your published loader charts in the FEL Op Manual. You have one chart for when the FEL is set for max lift and another for when the FEL is set for max height. My FEL is set for max lift capacity.

Where most folks get confused - - Kubota posts lift ratings for their FELs at a point 800mm( ~ 32 ") forward of the pivot pins. That is way out at the very lip of a bucket - if that's what you have on your FEL.

The very back of the mouth of my grapple jaws is only 12" forward of the FEL pivot pins. Thats why I use a calculated figure of 16" forward of the pivot pins. Thats a point 4" forward of the very back of the jaws of the grapple.

All my noodling and calculations can't be that far off. I have several times lifted a fresh cut green Ponderosa pine log - ten feet long, ave 36" in diameter with a calculated weight of 3200 pounds. Granted, I only lift it so the grapple is about 6" off the ground - but at that weight - - thats more than sufficient.

That math seems fuzzy..... Is this your loader or a different one? Numbers look almost identical to my KL6010.

 

[oosik]

theKKfan - this is the current FEL on my M6040 and the info directly out of the Op Manual for that FEL.

I do not know how to answer you - if you can not follow the math - - ??

No matter how anybody looks at it - - - 4300 minus 820 will ALWAYS EQUAL - 3480. At least on this world.

The power lift charts for my FEL are simple charts - easy to read and interpret.

The ability to lift heavy loads with my FEL follows right along with what the charts say it should lift. A fresh - just cut - ten foot chunk of Ponderosa pine with the butts averaging 36" will always weigh right around 3200 pounds.

I'm very happy with the way the system works - - that's what counts for me.

OK - KKfan - look at the data you posted. It says 2928 pounds max when in the heavy lift setting and at MAX HEIGHT... I COULD NOT CARE LESS what the FEL will lift at MAX HEIGHT.

If you will re read my previous post - #16 - you will see I am using a height of 500mm( 20") off the ground. Big difference there fella........

 

[EverythingAttachments]

I'm glad it delivers for ya, oosik. :thumbsup:
I am now even more curious as to what the M6 manual states.
It would really make these tractors look more attractive and alter some shopper's tractor choices if those numbers were published in the brochures, but the reasons not to must be more important.

Two excellent points you made...

1. It is what everyone quotes, but lift to max height isn't that important in most cases.

The claimed lift capacity of this Kubota B2920's loader is 661 pounds to max height(at 500mm beyond pivot pins).
BUT, when you outfit it with an 200 pound, Ultra Light Wicked 55 grapple and keep the load low, seemingly impossible, impressive feats like this can be real.

2. The difference in lift at the pivot pins and 500mm(~20 inches) in front of the pivot pins. Meet the Center of Gravity.

This is something else which many do not take into account when choosing a grapple or pallet forks.
Since I used the B2920 as an example, it's rated capacity at 20" beyond the pins now grows to 952 pounds at the pins.
This doesn't necessarily mean that a 1000 pound rated loader and pallet forks with 48" tines will lift a 1,000 pound pallet of blocks off(or onto) a flatbed.

Keeping the load close is very important if you want to maximize the loader's lift capacity. It's one more reason our rake style Wicked 55 makes these seemingly impossible feats possible.

John Deere 1025R

Mahindra Max

Kubota L2501

Picking out the best grapple includes many important factors beyond the ones mentioned above.
We have it figured out and can assist you guys with choosing the perfect grapple for your machine and application(s).

You don't have to understand the big picture, but it helps.
Travis