glide shift or hydro

Bird · Jul 20, 2001

<font color=blue>never seen an HST temp higher than 180 degrees</font color=blue>

Mark, I have (with Amsoil yet), but I may not have been measuring it in the right place, and it was after doing something I've never done before and will probably never do again. Below is part of a message I posted on 07/05/01.

"Alan, I was determined to make the power steering act up if at all possible, so I pushed it to the point of abuse. Have you ever tried mowing a rough pasture in high range, wide open? Nearly beat me to death. But after running it a couple of hours in mid-range with no hint of a problem, I put it in high, pedal to the metal for an hour. Outside temperature was 86 when I started; 94 when I finished. I managed to push the temperature gauge nearly a third of the way up, and when I shut down, I stuck my temperature probe to the bottom of the tank through the dipstick tube and the hydraulic oil peaked at 210 degrees. Instead of mowing laps around the pasture, I went back and forth from one end to the other, so I was spinning the wheel all the way to the locks doing 180s to the right at one end and the left at the other end. I thought once I felt the power steering starting to catch a bit, but then concluded that it was just the front wheels bouncing on that rough ground. I'd say there must be something different about yours; just don't know what it might be."

Bird

StanInCalif · Jul 20, 2001

Here's my take.
I have the following attachments which I will divide into three groups:
1- Front End Loader, 3ph pallet forks
2- Box blade, rear blade, tiller, 3ph sprayer
3- Single shank ripper (subsoiler), pull (drag) disc
My trans is a power reverser (a.k.a. shuttle shift, GST) That is the correct trans for me. Take away group 3, and hydro would be best. Take away group 1 (heaven forbid), and any gear trans will do, although hydro or GST would be handier for the group 2.
Like Bird says, It all boils down to how often you will be changing direction (and speed).
My vote is for the hydro and R4's.

glennmac · Jul 20, 2001

Stan,

I'm surprised you even need group 3 since you have a boxblade. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif For me, if you take away hydro, you can take it all away, cuz I'm not tractoring.

MChalkley · Jul 20, 2001

DaveV - You're not hurting your tractor. If you continue to apply heavy throttle while the rpms continue to drop, you'll notice lots of black smoke, and the engine will sound and usually feel like it's skipping or bucking. That's when you're lugging it, for lack of a more precise description.

A diesel engine is a thermal engine, and all the fuel that's injected into the cylinders will burn if it can. Some of this fuel is injected before the piston reaches top dead center. The slower the engine is turning the more of this fuel can begin the combustion process before the piston starts back down, which can literally destroy the engine if it's running slow enough. Long before that, though, the rod bearings take a terrible beating. If you put way too much strain on the engine suddenly and simply stall it, it doesn't have time to "lug", so little damage is done, but if you run it at very low rpms with all the load it can handle without stalling, that's when you're doing the damage. With a gas engine, it's harder to lug them because the engine requires a relatively precise fuel/air ratio to ignite. If you throw too much fuel in the cylinder at too low an rpm, it'll just stall out.

Big truck diesels, with peak torque ratings at 1200-1300 rpm (vs. the 1600-2000 rpm we see in the smaller diesels) will run without lugging at 1000 rpm, but most of them (nowadays) have a low-limit "governor" that stops the fuel pump from injecting fuel if throttle is being applied at too low an rpm to prevent damage.

MarkC

MChalkley · Jul 20, 2001

Bird - Most of the fields around here have been corn fields at some time in the past, and I'd be in orbit long before I got up to full speed in high range trying to bush hog one. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Actually, I have done bush hogging in high range a number of times, in weather as hot as you mentioned, but not since I installed the gauge. My sensor is attached to the tube going to the oil cooler where it exits the transmission. The temp may be a little cooler there but there shouldn't be much difference. At any rate, even 210 degrees is a long ways from hurting anything. Still, I'm pretty sure mine isn't likely to get that hot, based on the things I have used it for. Question: Does your B2710 have an oil cooler?

MarkC

Bird · Jul 20, 2001

Mark, the tractor and I both took a beating trying to run at top speed; not likely to ever do it again. The pasture was chisel plowed last year (I believe it was 2" chisel points about 12" apart) so it's rough.

I was making an honest effort to get everything just as hot as possible (without blocking any air flow to the radiator). And perhaps the thing that surprised me the most was that the old brush hog did a right fair job of mowing at that speed.

And yes, the B2710 has an oil cooler in front of the radiator, behind the battery.

Bird

frank_f15 · Jul 20, 2001

my vote:HYDRO! can not beleive how much easier it is to use. if u want to reposition before it was clutch, brake, shift, backup and then clutch, brake, shift. now it is toe, heel, hands still on control lever. the infinite speed control is great, and the precesion of forward or back movement is unbelivable. and u are not riding the clutch to do it. my 2 cents worth.

DarinRay · Jul 21, 2001

Kubmech,

I know you've mentioned replacing the cluthes on GST L35's before and then I just read it's from slipping the clutch or is part of the problem at least. I guess what I'm wondering is what is slipping the clutch. Is that when you feather the clutch out too long and keep it engaged when you shouldn't. Although with my L35 I hardly ever use the clutch but maybe I should in a couple of situtations. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif When I am loading my dump truck I just simply pull the tranny in neutral. Or when I'm digging in a pile I just have to slam the clutch in when I'm full and bogging the unit while trying to curl bucket beyond it's limit /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif. But when I'm taking off from somewhere I just put the thing in gear and go. Anyone have different ways of operating that I should consider? I know there are a couple times that I was working on banks and have the tractor under load and put the unit in the opposite direction gear and it was too jerky for my liking. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. ANy comments would be appreciated.

Darin

MChalkley · Jul 21, 2001

Darin - I'm not kubmech, but you did say "any comments would be appreciated" by which I assume you meant even mine. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Your description of slipping the clutch is what kubmech had in mind, I'm pretty sure. I had a GST for 4 or 5 years and, while I operated it as you describe operating yours most of the time, I have to admit to extracting every bit of performance possible from it occasionally by "slipping the clutch" as I dug with the front end loader or something like that. That's what many people with GST's do a lot of, and that's what kills the clutch. As for changing directions, don't do it with the tranny, except at very slow speeds and light loading conditions - use the brake to stop first.

MarkC

gamehunter · Jul 21, 2001

I'd like to thank everyone for their response, it looks like i will go with the hydro,I did not receive to much response as far as the tires.I really wanted to go with the industrials but was told by the dealer that they would tear up the ground in soft sand and bury itself in the sand,they said that the turf would be the better of the tires,any comments?THANKS AGAIN

MChalkley · Jul 21, 2001

Gamehunter - That's right, it was you who started this topic, wasn't it? And you did ask about tires, too, didn't you? /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif Since you asked one question, then disappeared, I thought you were just baiting me into a diatribe on HST vs. GST. I hope you realize it didn't work... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Well, since Glenn has been chiding me lately for not having an opinion /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif, I'll broach one here: Your dealer either neglected to consider enough factors, or you didn't tell us everything. First question: What are you going to be doing with the tractor? The only hint you gave us was that you're getting it with a loader. My opinion is (I warned you it was coming...): if you're doing anything besides mowing grass (which you aren't likely to need the loader for...), skip the turf tires. I had turf tires on a 20-something once. They were awful. Get the R4's, air 'em down to the minimum you can for your weight (again, the tractor's, that is), and take it easy when you're on the lawn if you have to. At least then you'll be able to use the tractor for something besides mowing grass...

There, I've given my opinion. Boy do I feel better... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

MarkC

kubmech · Jul 21, 2001

Mainly what I see is, when going into a pile (usually in a higher gear because you don't want to be bothered with shifting) when the engine starts to bog they feather the clutch to bring rpms back up. Makes for very smooth operation
but is brutal on the clutch.

DarinRay · Jul 21, 2001

Oh I see well I shoudln't have any problem with that because what I do is just put the thing in 1 and creep with my rpms high and dig right in until I have a full bucket. What I'm doing today is actually busting it my hillside up with teh backhoe first then it's nice a loose and easy to dig into. Doing it without BH'ing first just picks up the darn back end or makes me tilt way too far sideways until the hard soil breaks up(if it does)./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Anyway one more thing that does have me puzzled is what are the signs of your clutch starting to go? Again the only things I really can relate to are autos and then it would get hard putting the car or truck in gear or you would start having the clutch start to slip when in gear. Are they the same? Thanks again everyone

Darin

MChalkley · Jul 21, 2001

Darin - Yep, same symptoms.

MarkC

kubmech · Jul 21, 2001

The best way to judge clutch wear is to pay attention to the amount of free-play in the pedal, the more the clutch wears the less free play you have. If you're constantly adjusting free play you're wearing down quick. The less you have to adjust free play the easier you are on the clutch. If you ignore free play to the point the tractor stops moving you waited too long and it's probably too late.

DarinRay · Jul 21, 2001

Thanks guys again. Maybe just maybe one of these days I will be posting something that is helpful to others and not just getting information from all you. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif But for the time being I do have another. I was actually just outside inspecting the girl (L35) because I worked for awhile with her and just wanted to go over some areas. I've been watching my front axles seals because they do have oil (looks more like grease when mixed with dust and dirt) leaking out and also after reading posts on air pressure I was watching my tires when I had a full load in the front bucket and they did squash down so I won't be deflating the fronts and actually the backs don't show hardly any wear so I probably won't be messing with them either but I do keep an eye on the pressures.

Boy I was re-reading this post and it's a good thing my English teacher isn't in here. WOW! [laughing]

Anyway I was looking at the play (I think) in the clutch and what we are talking about here is when you can feel the pressure when depressing the pedal signifying clutch is enabled....Right? So while I push the pedal in and until I feel that pressure is the play right? I just don't like to guess because that does get me into trouble so that's why I must make sure that my thoughts are correct. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Darin

MChalkley · Jul 21, 2001

Darin - As the clutch wears out, the "free play" in the clutch (which is what you described) decreases, until there's none left, at which point the clutch begins slipping because there's not enough "free play" for it to engage completely. I don't know how much free play your L35 is supposed to have - kubmech will probably know - but it's not usually too critical, as long as there's a inch or so, and the clutch completely releases when you depress the pedal, of course.

MarkC

StanInCalif · Jul 21, 2001

Glenn-
Those other implements are just for show- I'm trying to fit in in this ag-oriented community, and a disc is very ag-ish. As it is I am having to work at night as my JD is yellow, not green (industrial, not farm tractor).
Seriously, please note that I voted for the hydro. - Stan

gamehunter · Jul 22, 2001

Thanks Mark for the reply on the tires. You were right I do not plan on useing this to cut grass just built a house and am looking to do my landscaping with and then after that were thinking about a couple of horses so I think it'll be kept busy for the next few years.I think Monday I'll go down to the dealer and get one on order. Once again I thank everyone for their 2cents.