Winches Getting Your Kubota Out of Mud / Snow While Working Alone

[bdhsfz6]

Another idea is to have a hydraulic cylinder and hydraulic Quic connects up front on your tractor to "winch" forward. On the ram of the cylinder have a chain grab hook. Have another grab hook welded on the front frame of the tractor where you can get to it easily.

Extend the ram of the cylinder. Run a chain or combination of chain and cable over to a nearby tree or other immovable object you can winch against. Hook chain link into the extended hydraulic cylinder's rod, grab hook. Now apply hydraulic power and pull in the rod. Take the free end of the chain and attach it to the grab hook on the frame of the tractor. Extend rod and loosen chain in its grab hook. The grab hook on the frame of the tractor will hold the load of the tractor.

With the rod extended, go get another bite of chain and pull it in. This will loosen the force on the static grab hook on the tractor frame and hopefully roll the tractor forward a few inches (the rod extension length). Continue doing this until tractor is rolled forward enough to become unstuck. This is slow, and requires much hooking and unhooking for one man, but a lot of force can be exerted by the hydraulic cylinder if the proper size is chosen. Again this is something you may want to have stored at the home base, and go walk to get the cylinder, hoses, and chains.

The hydraulic cylinder may or may not be attached to the tractor frame in a semi permanent mount if desired. Or the cylinder could be hung in free space with a chain and grab hook arrangement on both ends. As long as the hoses are long enough to get back to either your rear remote QD's or your front QD's you would have for say to run a grapple.

When sizing your hydraulic cylinder, Keep in mind the the force to extend the rod is greater than the force that can be applied to retract the rod due to the square inches of the rod taking up the surface area for the fluid to act upon the surface of the piston. But still if you size the cylinder correctly you can still exert a great force.

An interesting idea!

Another one I've tried in the past is to use a rope, a snatch block and 2 hooks. Tie the rope to one of the hooks and put it on the FEL bucket cutting edge. loop the rope over the back of the bucket and run it through the snatch block. hook the block to the front of the tractor frame and lower the FEL. Pull the rope taught along the ground and tie it to a pole or tree in front or slightly to the side of the tractor. Then get on the tractor and raise the FEL. Depending on the lift height of the FEL, you can work yourself out 5 or 6' at a time. I usually use a rock or log as a wheel chock if the tractor slides backward when you lower the FEL. If that doesn't work, a second rope may be necessary to hold the strain while you reset the rig. It's still a slow process and requires a lot of resetting but it does work in certain situations.

 

[oosik]

It sound like after all is said and done and the driveway is plowed - it would still be a PITA to drive up the driveway. I have some added thoughts -

- I may have missed it, but is your tractor 4WD
- I'd get rid of the chains you have and get some REAL chains that will work - like V-bar or other ice gripper chains and on all four wheels
- forget about getting out of the ditch and concentrate on staying on the road - if you do get stuck, call a friend Any type of winching is really hard work,
especially for one person. It can be as taxing as shoveling snow by hand and we all know what that can lead to.

With GOOD ice gripping chains on all four wheels and 4WD you should seldom be in the ditch. If this is not the case - then its time to call a professional for those times you get an exceptionally heavy snow fall.

 

[Rustyiron]

The best would seem to be a 3pt skidder winch but the cost is high and I'm usually using another implement like a snow thrower or rear blade.

The problem is mostly in deep snow or snow on top of ice. If I break traction while working, the tractor winds up in the ditch very quickly due to the high road crown.

I think in your situation, I would up grade your chains to a studded "Trygg" ice chains, front & back. You'll swear they're "ice magnets", but prolly 2x the cost of other types. Those studs are carbide. 12.4 x 36 - 3/8" Studded Farm, Grader, and Loader Chains - 603904

My friend does a lot of plowing with his tractor commercially, he usually has a heavy "box blade" on the back for weight and pulling snow away from buildings. We've been hashing around the idea of mounting a hyd. winch to it for self extraction. A 8000# Ramsey planetary hyd. winch can be had for about $1300. I have one for another application and it's a good winch.
IMHO you usually want winch yourself back to where you were (not stuck) and you rear remote's are right there, it would be fairly simple to attach it to with plenty of heavy "structure" already built into a box blade. I would want the winch already on the tractor, ready to go. Like you said, it's a long walk back to the barn, and I would suggest that 99% of the time (snow plowing) you'll want to pull it backwards.

 

[leonz]

The trygg chains would work well but the issue would be does he have inner fender clearance for the carbide studs???


Don't hate me BUT Perhaps we are collectively looking at this bass ackwards and If I am an A##HAT please forgive me
the following line of thought.

1. you have a very long distance to cover and a substantial grade.

2. you slide off due to the construction of the access road and the crown and the drainage is no help either.

3. you are by yourself all the time doing this.

4. no telling what next years winter will bring.



Now don't all of you collectively yell Leon you are an A##HAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Perhaps the recipe has to be tweaked a little?

A smaller mule with a cab, heater, and HID work lights as well as a high output alternator and a front mount snow caster

SO if a 1870-2370 with a 60 inch front mount as much as I hate front mounts with its skids modified as ski skids by welding a ski on each skid loaded rears and front and rear V bar chains. The V bar chains and turf tires are a great combination as I have them but I used them on my old tractor and need to do some surgery on them to fit the JD mule for next year

A rear mounted "tool rack" tool carrier to carry all the goodies shovel sand salt and a 6K Ramsey winch that would be bolted to the
tool rack and powered by the high output alternator and the special electrical plugs to make it a quick attach hook up without messing around with the hood would be a thing to look at?

The 1870 would be easier to yank out too with the winch in the back and using snatch blocks from AW if its in the wrong place at the wrong time.
AW Direct: Towing Equipment, Work Truck Supplies & Accessories



I have to go and I will check back in few hours, if my ears are burning I know I will be in trouble :^0

 

[oosik]

Leonz - NO, I think you are saying the right things. He has a TOUGH situation and needs, but does not yet have adequate equipment to effectively & safely handle his situation. He needs to modify his equipment so all his time is not "getting out of the ditch".

 

[JWR]

Leonz - NO, I think you are saying the right things. He has a TOUGH situation and needs, but does not yet have adequate equipment to effectively & safely handle his situation. He needs to modify his equipment so all his time is not "getting out of the ditch".

I tend to agree with you guys BUT first I want to hear what kind of road it is (gravel, mud holes in places, paved), is it a 95% snow issue or are there some serious mud holes, and are there good anchor points (trees, posts) along the steep part. So far as I can find the MX5800's are all 4WD. A picture or two would be nice actually.

 

[leonz]

JWR,

post number 40 has the access road details.

 

[airbiscuit]

Slippery R4s and snow/crown/ditches are challenging. If your backhoe is on the tractor, then can't you just crab yourself out. If it isn't mounted, then surprisingly, I think one or two of the 4 ton come a longs might be a good solution.

Another option would be a tractor version of that bush winch.

 

[Oldpath05]

How much weight is on this Kubota MX5800 with FEL, sounds like a big tractor to me, more than a SUV if stuck and if really stuck not sure that a bush winch on a wheel would cut the mustard. I'd go with pto winch with remote control and a snatch block down low on it, a pto winch for that size tractor would pull alot at idle, they are not cheap but then it can be used to get wood out and or other vehicles. Sofar I only used my Fransgard winch once to pull my tractor out of a jamb and that was spring mud, in winter time, my studded tire chains keeps me from getting stuck, sofar...

 

[JWR]

The road consists of a red shale base capped with 6" of 2RC modified gravel. It isn't the road surface that causes the problem it's the deep drainage ditches necessary to handle water runoff on the steep grade. There are plenty of trees to use as winch points. I use R4 tires and have a backhoe. I've had ag R1's on previous tractors which do have better traction but I've been stuck with those as well. The problem is mostly in deep snow or snow on top of ice. If I break traction while working, the tractor winds up in the ditch very quickly due to the high road crown. I usually work uphill since it's easier to get out of a jam with gravity working with you. Occasionally, I'll have a mud problem when working in the woods but not nearly as often.

OK, got it. That helps a lot. Of course making very helpful/half-way usable comments from the peanut gallery out here is not so well guaranteed at best. I assume, as someone else did, that you are mostly using the FEL for the snow removal. I will say if I had over a mile of driveway to clear I would definitely be using a good front blade or blower. I lean towards a blade in your case because it is a LOT cheaper than a front blower and a mile or more is too far to be backing up with a rear blower, at least with my stiff neck. [I use a rear blower in WV mountains.] You probably do not have a mid PTO on the BX5800 and even if you did the front blower is expensive. Also, I know you got dumped on this year with a huge snowfall but how often do your really get that much ? (e.g. enough to justify a large blower.) You should be able to use any of several available blades with hydraulic angle using a third function up front on the loader frame. To me that is better than a blower for a gravel base road. Secondly, with a loader mounted blade you can plow downhill, not up hill, and let gravity help you. Going however slow you need to, you should be able to avoid the ditches better in that mode. Shove the snow into those convenient deep ditches ! You need seriously aggressive chains on all fours when the ice is there as the other guys have thoroughly stated and illustrated. With frequent ice and/or ice under snow I'd spring for the double priced chains with spikes or at least v's. My guess is (and I think you pretty much said) that getting in the ditch is mostly a result of loss of traction, in effect spinning into the ditch. That goes away if you are going DOWN hill with a front blade. That also means starting out from the house instead of trying to wade to the far end and then going uphill. That first trip down hill after a big snow probably packs snow and make the trip back up much worse too. Extracting the tractor from a bad or stuck situation goes away this way, I think. You'll no longer be worrying about how to extract it & if you have to back up hill occasionally that should not be a problem. I disagree with leonz approach of going to a smaller 2370 or something that size. Bigger is better in my opinion. You already have the better machine. Better clearance, more room for chains, better power, more weight on the chains on the ice, and able to handle more snow per pass. I think if you go this route your need for winches will be forgotten (though maybe not the need for wenches...) Also, the front blade route allows you to keep the backhoe on the tractor if you want to. Good ballast I'd call it.

 

[oosik]

Yes, the Kubota site lists all MX5800's as 4WD. I think that with good ice chains and a blade on the FEL or a frame mount blade, you should very seldom have to worry about being stuck. Its a 60 hp tractor, weighs 3735 pound and with the backhoe attached or weighted rear tires should almost be unstoppable. With the increased traction of ice chains you can plow from the top down and use gravity as an assist to plowing.

 

[Egon]

With the backhoe mounted there should be the ability to shift the tractor in any direction with use of the backhoe functions.o

Of course the OP may be seeing things much different than myself. I have not sat in his seat and his money is not mine to spend!

 

[Baby Grand]

Consider getting a "rope puller" - a relatively inexpensive and fairly lightweight (7 pounds/ less than $100) extraction tool:
Rope Pullers - Maasdam
That, and a 100-150' hank (about 14-21 pounds/$100-200) of 5/8" double braid polyester rope should get you out of most pickles:
DOUBLE BRAID POLYESTER ROPE
Note: that's polyester; not polypropylene. Polyester is almost as strong as nylon, but doesn't stretch nearly as much, so snap back isn't as much of a risk. Biggest challenge is finding a place to stow it on the tractor. A nylon duffel, slung over the ROPS might do the job.

-Jim

 

[bdhsfz6]

OK, got it. That helps a lot. Of course making very helpful/half-way usable comments from the peanut gallery out here is not so well guaranteed at best. I assume, as someone else did, that you are mostly using the FEL for the snow removal. I will say if I had over a mile of driveway to clear I would definitely be using a good front blade or blower. I lean towards a blade in your case because it is a LOT cheaper than a front blower and a mile or more is too far to be backing up with a rear blower, at least with my stiff neck. [I use a rear blower in WV mountains.] You probably do not have a mid PTO on the BX5800 and even if you did the front blower is expensive. Also, I know you got dumped on this year with a huge snowfall but how often do your really get that much ? (e.g. enough to justify a large blower.) You should be able to use any of several available blades with hydraulic angle using a third function up front on the loader frame. To me that is better than a blower for a gravel base road. Secondly, with a loader mounted blade you can plow downhill, not up hill, and let gravity help you. Going however slow you need to, you should be able to avoid the ditches better in that mode. Shove the snow into those convenient deep ditches ! You need seriously aggressive chains on all fours when the ice is there as the other guys have thoroughly stated and illustrated. With frequent ice and/or ice under snow I'd spring for the double priced chains with spikes or at least v's. My guess is (and I think you pretty much said) that getting in the ditch is mostly a result of loss of traction, in effect spinning into the ditch. That goes away if you are going DOWN hill with a front blade. That also means starting out from the house instead of trying to wade to the far end and then going uphill. That first trip down hill after a big snow probably packs snow and make the trip back up much worse too. Extracting the tractor from a bad or stuck situation goes away this way, I think. You'll no longer be worrying about how to extract it & if you have to back up hill occasionally that should not be a problem. I disagree with leonz approach of going to a smaller 2370 or something that size. Bigger is better in my opinion. You already have the better machine. Better clearance, more room for chains, better power, more weight on the chains on the ice, and able to handle more snow per pass. I think if you go this route your need for winches will be forgotten (though maybe not the need for wenches...) Also, the front blade route allows you to keep the backhoe on the tractor if you want to. Good ballast I'd call it.

Pardon the lengthy post. I was trying to avoid writing a novel here but from all the questions, I think more information is necessary. My main concern is getting stuck in snow. When working in mud, I always have the BH and can usually "crab" my way out of trouble. Here in PA's Pocono Mountains, we get an average of 55" of snow annually although not so much in the last few years. I always use my pickup and plow to clear as much of the road as I can. (Yes, I get that stuck too) Fortunately, I live at the top of the hill and can use gravity to assist. After the third or fourth significant storm of the season or a major one like the 30 incher we just had, the ditches fill with plowed snow and the pickup plow can't push the new snow over the built up snow bank. It just slides back down and the road gets down to a narrow single lane.

The road is shared by 8 other families so there is a lot of traffic. To anticipate the next question, NO, not a **** one of them will lift a finger to help! That however is another story. When the banks get too high and the road too narrow, maybe 2 or 3 times a season, I use the FEL bucket to pile and a 74" rear mount snowthrower to blow the banks back. I'd love to have the BH but I need the 3pt for the snowthrower.

With the roads high crown and the deep drainage ditches filled with packed snow, it's not always easy to judge how close you are to the center of the ditch. The tires ride on the packed snow until the weight of the tractor causes them to "break through" and presto, I'm stuck. This usually happens when using the snowthrower parallel to the bank. I have better luck working with the FEL bucket pushing the snow back at an angle to the bank. The reach of the bucket usually keeps me out of trouble but not always. It also takes the better part of 2 days to push the banks back with a 6' bucket on both sides of a 1.5 mile road. Yes, there is a lot of equipment out there that would better handle this situation but the frequency of the problem, to me, doesn't justify spending a lot of $$. There is also the hope I'll get a new neighbor who is willing to help.

I've been doing this for over 30 years now and I'm still learning new tricks. In the past, I used an 8' FEL mounted plow on an older tractor which worked quite well. I kept the BH on for ballast and could use it to pull myself clear when stuck. The wider plow gave me better reach but unfortunately, the side pressure of the wide blade broke the welds on the FEL frame. At the time, the dealer told me the FEL wasn't designed for that kind of work. That's when I started using the snowthrower. I started another post here recently about this issue and it appears that many are using FEL plows now with no problem. I might try one again as a partial solution to my current issue.

Anyway, I want to thank everyone for all the ideas and suggestions. I didn't think I'd get this many responses and I apologize again for the long winded post.

 

[JWR]

Do not apologize ! These things are fun trying to put ourselves in your shoes.

 

[Egon]

Ahh-- more clarity to the situation.

Perhaps consider a rear mounted winch. Either electric or hydraulic.

More aggressive chains may help but it would seem you have a free spinning wheel in most of the stuck situations.

A rear wheel track system may be a consideration but cost??

As a trial checking for response park your vehicles at the bottom and use all terrain vehicle for the back and forth to your house. Could get interesting?

 

[bdhsfz6]

I'll keep my eye out for a hyd. winch that I can place on front or rear as required. I've seen them in the $1300 range.

I've considered going "on strike" after a storm and have purposely waited a few times to clear the road. The phone always rings and I have to get out myself at some point so I wind up clearing the road eventually. After 30+ years, I guess I'm used to it and so, unfortunately, are the neighbors.

 

[airbiscuit]

You described the problem well at the outset, then you described it better. There is no easy remedy.

The problem as I see it ...

• You have difficult traction issues (ice over snow)
• Gravity amplifies the problem (crown of the road and deep ditches)
• You are alone
• It takes considerable force to extricate your tractor
• Front of tractor is occupied by loader and rear by snowblower

I think that's why no simple solutions have surfaced. I did like the concept of a hydraulic ram run off your remotes and attached to a stationary object. You would need relatively long stroke for it to work efficiently and a big enough bore to generate enough force. How much ## line pull do you think you will need?

Another idea (unencumbered by human thought) is the thought of a chainsaw winch attached to a snatch strap. It loads the strap with pull and then you get on the tractor to use its force (vs winching a dead weight). I'm not saying it is a good idea - just an idea.

BTW, I should have added to my list you might be doing this in the dark :worried:

 

[k0ua]

Yeah, my hydraulic ram run off of remotes idea will work, but it is slow, and will work a heck of a lot faster with 2 people than 1 guy getting off and on a tractor or at least going back to the remote valve, and then back to the front or back to hook and unhook chains. I really like the idea of not sliding off in the ditch in the first place, and if some more aggressive chains would prevent that, then that would be the way to go.

 

[CobyRupert]

Weight = traction