GeoTextile Cloth

MikePA · May 11, 2003

Since it's been so wet this spring, I can't get into our new field to continue installing the fence I started last Fall. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif So, I decided I would begin work on digging out our three horse stalls. Do I know how to have fun, or what? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Since I can not get any mechanized equipment into the stalls (three, 12' x 12' stalls), I will be doing all this by hand. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Based upon feedback I've received on TBN before, my plan is as follows;

1. Dig down 10" across the entire area, sloping to 12" at the center.
2. Dig a hole in the center to contain a 15 gallon blue plastic barrel, perforated with holes.
3. Lay down geotextile cloth over the entire area. (I will actually use the Stall Skins we have installed now)
4. Put down 6" of 2A modified limestone (3/4" down to fines).
5. Lay down geotextile cloth.
6. Lay down 4" of sand.

Two Questions...
- What's the TBN brain trust think of this plan?
- The geotextile cloth I am looking at is located here. Since I only need enough cloth to do three stalls, I was going to order the 15' x 15' pond liner instead of an entire roll of the fabric somewhere else. However, I wasn't sure if the 8 oz fabric was the same stuff that gets used under driveways. Is it?

Will_C · May 11, 2003

Mike; I don't know what to tell you except the material you are looking at is pricey! I don't know the weight, but my brother uses the same fabric used on the Town roads, and he pays about $300 for a 13'x300' roll. (He uses when he installs sand filter septic systems.) The fabric on the website you linked is $300 for a 15'x100' section.
Your plan sounds good to me, although I have vever installed any stalls. It seems like you have drainage and cushioning under control.
Will

Anonymous Poster · May 11, 2003

Mike,

Just a thought.....Sam's Club sells large rolls of Landscape fabric, 4' x 400'? for about $28. It's probably not as thick as the Geotextile cloth but you could lay it out then double it up using a criss cross pattern.

cowboydoc · May 11, 2003

I'm not sure what your purpose of using the cloth is Mike? I really don't think it's necessary. I looked on the stallskins website and they don't mention it either. I also wouldn't use the sand. It's too soft and will give too much in my opinion.

MikePA · May 11, 2003

I'm not sure what your purpose of using the cloth is Mike? 
I was going to use it to keep the limestone from getting pushed down into the underlying clay.

 I also wouldn't use the sand. 
Would you just use the limestone and put the bedding (pine wood chips) on top of that?

gordon · May 11, 2003

Here is a link to geotextiles and livestock. GEOTEXTILE AND LIVESTOCK

I've attached a picture of the woven geotextile that I use. Price is under a doller per running foot for a 12' wide roll. In this area it's well worth it under driveways or for skidding trails. Sorry but I can't help you on horse use. But a geotextile used correctly will really help in rutting so I guess that would speak for itself.

I would also look to see if your local rental centers, ag centers or even where your going to buy your limestone from sell any type of geotextile. Just a thought. Good luck

Gordon

Will_C · May 11, 2003

Gordon's picture is what I was referring to earlier. Sounds like it is priced about the same.
Will

cowboydoc · May 12, 2003

Didn't you say you were using the stallskins Mike? They have an excellent step by step picture of doing this on their website. You need something over the top of the limestone after you lay it down. If not it gets to be a mess. Either stallskins or rubber mats are well worth the price.

MikePA · May 12, 2003

Didn't you say you were using the stallskins Mike? 
The problem we're having is with the clay underneath the StallSkins. When it gets water logged, you feel as if you're walking on a water bed. As the clay dries out, the stall floors become a 12' x 12' series of hills and valleys.

My plan was to dig down a foot, install the leach pit with the 15 gallon barrel in the center. (That's what you used, right?) Cover with limestone (not sure why StallSkin recommends the sand), then cover with another Stallskin. It will be difficult to reuse the existing Stallskin since they've already been trimmed.

Anonymous Poster · May 12, 2003

Mike,

What would your seasonal high water table be? Have you dug a test hole to see if it fills with water and how high it fills with water. If the water table is high your blue barrel will fill up with water and then have no place to go....

MikePA · May 12, 2003

In the spring, I imagine the barrel will be full. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Any ideas?

Plus, the ground the barn is on is relatively flat, so there's no place for the water to naturally drain. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

dmccarty · May 12, 2003

Mike,

I don't have a clue about the horse side of your question but
the fabric does prevent the stone from mixing in the clay. I
only drive on my driveway with geotextile a couple of times
a week at best but you can't tell that 355 tons of ABC was
moved across parts of the drive. Once we move out there
we will find out how well it holds up.

The supplier of my geotextile would sell the stuff by the
the foot. He just divided up the price pre foot off a full roll
and charged that price per linear foot. Very fair. Maybe
you can find a supplier to do the same. He sure did not have
a problem selling less than full loads.

Later,
Dan

MikePA · May 12, 2003

Update on the water table...

In 2 hours (and 5 FEL loads), I hand dug 1/6 of the stall out to a depth of 12 inches. Most of it was water logged clay. Very soon after I got down to the 12 inch depth, puddles of water began to appear. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Given this situation, I am debating whether to put the 15 gallon barrel in the center. As Don mentioned, it's going to just fill up with water which kind of defeats the purpose of installing it in the first place, I think.

Anonymous Poster · May 12, 2003

Mike,

My suggestion would be to lay perferated drain pipe(PVC) under the three stalls and direct them to a common pit. Place a sump pump in the common pit and pump the water outside as far away from the barn as possible. The sump pump will have a float on it and automatically come on when the pit fills with water. Does your barn have power?

MikePA · May 12, 2003

Yep, the barn has power. However, installing a common sump appears to make this project a bit more complicated than time and equine patience permits. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

There are 3 stalls, two adjacent and one across a paved aisle. In order to reduce the impact on our equine inhabitants, I am doing one stall at a time. Connecting all the stalls to a common sump would mean digging a 3' deep trench between the stalls (two are adjacent, one is across a paved aisle) and then figuring out a location for the collection sump, etc.

If I could figure a backhoe into this operation in order to speed things up, this would be a possibility, but all this digging has to be done by hand. Sure wish I hand planned this all out before the barn was built. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

riptides · May 13, 2003

Hey Mike,

Looks like you have got a great idea, let me offer some input for you to think about. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

We just went through this with stalls. Our barn sits on C L A Y and more C L A Y. The stalls slope into a french drain, maybe a 5 gallon hole in the clay at the most. It is filled with stone and on top of this is about 6 inches of stone dust.

On top of the stone dust are stall matts. WoodyPet, a brandname wood shaving mixture is on top of that.

The stalls are BONE dry, don't smell and let me tell you with this rain, the horse was in her stall the last two weeks.

On the outside, I ran drain tile, about 300' feet, connecting to the downspouts. I also ran drain tile in the "pen" paddock area. I put this down TOO FAR, for the clay. I rented a ditch witch and took it down 3-4 feet. On top of this a placed blue stone #5 (good for driveways). I leveled it back off with the B7800 using the churned up clay mixture.

The horse has compacted the clay on top of the drain tile so much it does NOT drain. This w/e I will return to the paddock area and take out (about 1-2 feet) of clay and just use stone dust. That is if it dries out.

Anyway, your milage may vary.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

cowboydoc · May 13, 2003

Mike,

With your situation with the water I would not do any of the draining. I would just level it all out with fines and then put your mats back on. As long as you use plenty of sawdust and keep the stalls fresh with good sawdust you should be ok.

gerard · May 13, 2003

ditto what cowboydoc said - sand won't pack and will get depressions - I've used stoendust which is better but still not as good as running crush. The fabric won't hurt but I would go with stall mats on top of everything. If you get a good compacted (compacted being the operative term!!) base of crusher run, then put the stall mats over that you should have no problem and all the urine should get soaked up by your bedding which is what you want. Your goal should be to get the urine collected and out of the stall, not letting it sink in which will give you a perpetually wet underlayment since horsies put out 5-10 gal per day. (Least that's what they take in, guess not ALL of it comes out). If you dont' use mats you'll always be tweaking the flooring. Also if you get mats use the interlocks - just no comparison and no shifting.