generator to home panel connection

[Bedlam]

And people need to realize that these aren't all new homes that have never had a generator, So making new codes is OK. But its not like we tear the house down each year and build it to the present codes.
i think most understand that the codes are there for a reason.But also that it doesn't mean we have to redo things to meet the present day codes.

 

[hr3]

Bedlem,, I think most of them are talking about installing something "new" on an old,,,or new home.. It dosn't matter if it is a new or old home when something electrical is installed it must meet current codes.. not the codes when the house was built...Just looked in the oldest code book i have,,,1987,,dad has the older ones,,he's 94 and still trying to find them,,lol

230-83 Transfer Equipment... Transfer equipment shall operate such that all ungrounded conductors of one source of supply are disconnected before and ungrounded conductors of the second source are connected

Brin.. the link looked good I think you will find a "UL" tag on that.. I see what you ment about the 2 switches you throw now...the link you gave though shows only 50amps allowed on the gen set side,, seems low..??

 

[tnhomestead]

What I meant is the only 100% way not to backfeed is if your not hooked up to the grid, anything can break! I used to do machine repair and we always disconnected power then locked the box first. Maybe overkill, but safe!
That said wow a lot of upset folks here, guess I can understand why -- but Im glad no codes where I live! Thanks to everyone I learned a lot here on this post!

 

[BungeeII]

didn't realize this was such a polarizing item

Crazy, isn't it?

There is a 0% chance of having a rational conversation about generators here.

Zero.

 

[Travelover]

Crazy, isn't it?

There is a 0% chance of having a rational conversation about generators here.

Zero.

Then I suppose my plan to shinny up the pole and attach jumper cables is off the table?

 

[brin]

Then I suppose my plan to shinny up the pole and attach jumper cables is off the table?

Geeez, that would work but where would you get jumper cables that long ? LOL

 

[Bedlam]

They wouldn't have to be long because you would definitely install a meter right after the jumper cables and then underground wire from there in.LOL

 

[hr3]

Ooo man now you bring up the safety of climbing poles without the proper safefty equipment...

 

[larryccf]

Then I suppose my plan to shinny up the pole and attach jumper cables is off the table?

and on that note, i just pulled my dog out of this fight

 

[ninefinger]

I understand the issues linemen have with this backfeeding. You shall understand the issues we consumers have when the power goes out. We are not all stupid consumers.

Did not say all are stupid, all it takes is one. Yes, I will admit I fully expect to find a backfeed when I check out a homeowner with a honda generator running his house during an extended outage, have found too many during my years. Most of the chicken houses in the area have back up, never found one that would backfeed. I think most of the problem is the areas that do not deal with extended outages as a way of life and have to plan for them but then I do understand there are stupid people all over. Guess I am a bit touchy right now, found out this afternoon we have a young man that got burnt last night. Tomorrow, Sunday, he will lose his left leg above the knee and part of his left bisep. Do not know what happened yet, just know a fine young man has had his life forever changed.

 

[Mace Canute]

I know what you're feeling, ninefinger, I've been in the same situation as you find yourself in now. My thoughts are with you and especially the young man.

 

[BungeeII]

Then I suppose my plan to shinny up the pole and attach jumper cables is off the table?

Hey, while you're up there you may as well bootleg cable off of your neighbors line. Backup power ~and~ free cable.... Sweet!

 

[brin]

I think all of us have an idea what loss of life is like...I remember my best friend got killed when he was 16 yrs. old and an 8n tractor turned over on him...I drove an 8n at that time as well so it hit me especially hard...

 

[FlaDon]

Thank you, Mr. Miller!

The subject of generators and backfeeding onto utility lines is definitely one that pushes ALL my buttons, as everyone has plainly seen! I'm quite passionate about it and I hope I don't come off looking like I am doing a personal attack on anyone. I have had a few friends and acquaintances injured (and one killed) from contact with high voltage lines. I once came this close(holding fingers a c-hair apart) to getting serious burned and possibly killed myself (through absolutely no fault of my own btw).

Pushes my buttons too. After Hurricane Andrew I spent 3 days out with DOT crews clearing downed lines and poles. I have a pair of 4' bolt cutters that will cut most any cable to get it out of the way. My worry was that someone had their generator wired to the house wrong. No wire cutting was done without the 20KV gloves on.

Our house has 2 manual transfer switches. A 50 A emergency panel inside for short term outages. And a 200 A outside for long term outages. As in 5 weeks without commercial power. Before the power company would power up the transformer, they inspected my installation. Took one look at the transfer switch and wanted to know where the 50 KW generator was.

Now as far as the circuit breaker lockout style, it is common on industrial panels. Don't like them but they are there. As are powered breakers that have motors to engage and disengage the breakers. But like all things man made, something can go wrong. Just ask the power company in GA that went to put a generator online and found it hitting the roof.

 

[horse7]

I thought the original device described was clever (the mechanical interlock plate). It seems a bit disingenuous to to suggest someone might disable the interlock by removing it-- they can do that for any device installed including automatic transfer switches. If it doesn't seem to be working right, so just jump some wires from "A" to "B"...

What seems to be missing is that cheap and dirty solutions are far more common than the mechanical interlock plates. At least around here, it seems fairly common to use a simple suicide cord (male-male) to connect a genset through the dryer outlet, and to have to "remember" to cut off the main breaker.

For a while the local power company was offering something like the GenerLink. This seemed like a good idea, except that the monthly rental was 14.95 (plus taxes)!

I prefer automatic transfer with critical functions like computers running on UPSs. Being the NY Metro area with crumbling infrastructure, the power here isn't very good... short outages (less than 30S) about 6-12x/yr, longer outages (hours to a day) about 1-3x/yr and very long outages (1-18 days) every 2-4 years.

 

[JBElectric]

Don't see the issue if Eaton/Cutler Hammer sell them on their website saying they are UL listed and ROBUST

 

[Looking4new]

Mace Canute....Can I send you a PM?

 

[Mounted Madness]

Mace - thank you for a 10 minute chuckle. I will without any hesitation steal your "Stuck on Stupid" as a useful descriptor of those unable to change their brain gears.

As well, after reading through this thread, you've convinced me of one thing - I'm hiring an electrician to do a proper install of a proper switching system. Better safe then lawsuit.

hahahahahahah'stuckonstupid'hahahahhaahahahhh

 

[buickanddeere]

didn't realize this was such a polarizing item

There are those who will trade safety for the Almighty Dollar.
I haven't read the entire 8 page post yet but...........you are back feeding using a clothes dryer receptacle? Are you using a male plug with exposed live prongs on the generator side?

 

[buickanddeere]

i've worried about how much current is running thru the ground

I'm not an electrician but i don't think i've ever even seen a 30a dryer receptacle - every clothes dryer circuit i've seen was 60A, same as electric hot water heater

i am dying of curiosity - where did you see mention of a 30a receptacle? Running a 50a circuit thru a 60amp receptacle would seem to be on the safe side and having accumulated 577 hours on this generator, with no meltdowns, i feel kinda safe in assuming it is -


PS -

There is no current flowing through ground if wired correctly. Just what exactly are are you doing?

You are not an electrician, yup I could tell that a while back

Pure BS on the currents. An electric clothes dryer is a 120/240V 30 amp four wire plug. An electric stove is a 50 amp 120/240 four wire plug.

Just because it "works" doesn't make it right.