Gear drive vs hydro

[Egon]

Egon, why you be talking like a pirate?

Not knowing any pirates I'm afraid I do not know how they talk. As for the way I talk it's probably cause I'm borderline illiterate!

And then there was a "Jolly Tractor owner" who says Bye's oh Bye's I've put in a full day on my tractor of choice and it's time a stirrup glass of ale tickled my throat and cut the dust for I wish to spend another day at the wheel. He's a jolly jolly fellow and he'll live to drink another cup!

And the pie plate said " Bye's you have to drive a tractor like mine or your not a proper Man". He drinks water pure and he'll die before October!

 

[MossRoad]

Ditto that... been gone a bit and 3 more pages are racked up..

soundguy

You got a lot of drinking to do to catch up!

 

[MossRoad]

To make a solid determination what the "typical" user needs, it would be helpful to know what "typical" is.

Middle-aged overweight white guy with enough extra cash to buy two yuppie tractors. Am I close?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Middle-aged overweight white guy with enough extra cash to buy two yuppie tractors. Am I close?

According to my wife, you just described 97.4% of the US male population, with me being ALMOST "typical", just older than middle-aged.

WAY TOO CLOSE......

 

[MossRoad]

According to my wife, you just described 97.4% of the US male population, with me being ALMOST "typical", just older than middle-aged.

WAY TOO CLOSE......

Thanks. I knew I was a typical compact tractor owner.

 

[N80]

To many (MOST?) of us, price compatability would fall under the wide umbrella of both "WANT" and "NEED".

Well, the vast majority of us don't "NEED" a tractor at all. Much less HST. So you're right. Things get pretty cloudy in regard to want and need.

So why don't we just all say "WANT" and leave it at that? Who can argue with "I want this feature" or "I want this much HP"?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Well, the vast majority of us don't "NEED" a tractor at all. Much less HST. So you're right. Things get pretty cloudy in regard to want and need.

So why don't we just all say "WANT" and leave it at that? Who can argue with "I want this feature" or "I want this much HP"?

In the final analysis, that's what it's all about. We may "want" something because we need it. We may Want something because it makes the best sense after hours and hours of study. We may want something because our neighbor has something simular, but we generally get what we want, or at the very least, as close to it as we can afford.

Funny how that "afford" concept keeps popping back into focus so often.

I want to be able to afford EVERYTHING!!!!!!

 

[DreaminGreen]

Just thought I would mention, on another tractor forum I visit they are just starting a thread about this same topic. It is only up to 8 replys so far.

 

[Soundguy]

They are obviously amateurs!

soundguy

 

[N80]

Just thought I would mention, on another tractor forum I visit they are just starting a thread about this same topic. It is only up to 8 replys so far.

Sounds like a bunch of lightweights and rookies to me.

 

[N80]

They are obviously amateurs!

soundguy

Uh oh, don't take this the wrong way but we may be starting to think alike.

 

[Soundguy]

A good idea is a good idea.. no matter who it comes from!

soundguy

 

[Reg]

Interesting that you mention that. My farmer buddy (300 cows,grows his own hay) who has all old gear tractors is looking to buy a new 60-70 hp, 4wd JD to move hay bales with (6' round bales). His current JD is spending more time in his shop and the old Case-O-Matic back up with a PTO driven pump for the FEL just died 3 days ago.

He has, I'm guessing, 12 tractors. This will be his first new tractor ever. It will never pull a plow or anything ground engaging. Mostly hay wagons, maybe a no-till drill, maybe a rotary cutter, rarely the baler. Seems like the precision, ease of use, safety on hills, and all that would make it a no brainer. Sounds like HST would be ideal for him, right?

No chance. Geared only.

But why?

Three reasons. First, he doesn't think an HSt can withstand the level of use he puts on a machine in terms of long term durability. He may be very wrong about that but that isn't the deal breaker. Second,the deal breaker is that he does most of his own repairs, short of machine shop type work, and he does not think he can do HST type work. Third, budget.

Just a real example of the few good reasons for geared vs HST. Simplicity. Price. Which really pretty much sums things up. I trust you guys that HSt is all that and more. But that doesn't change the fact that geared machines are perfectly reasonable options for a lot of folks. Even those who will never pull a plow.

Mayhap he got scared off the 4 or 5 pressure reliefs ?

 

[Egon]

[I was also entertained by Egon's comments (usually am) I was pointing out that coordination is not my limitation./QUOTE]

Hey, send me your address so I can mail you a Loonie for the comment!

 

[Egon]

[Hmm.. ok argument if you want one that isn't apples to apples. There are utilitarian and safety purposes for that electric start.. and the price differential from electric start vs a blank plate and hand crank is less than 100$.. if an HST tranny cost 80$ more than a gear.. I'm sure there might be some more gearheads jumping over.
/QUOTE]

Ahh dear; for less that $100. you get that lovely geared fly wheel, a formed bell housing for the starter, a battery, even a starter,voltage regulator and all the switch gear??? Yep sounds real reasonable to me and one don't even have to buy apples and oranges so one cane make a real comparison!

Don't know what the starter for my tractor costs but at $100. I should be able to buy lots and resell at a profit!

It must be difficult to keep the perspective in perspective so only ones own thoughts may be in the perspective.

Oh - did I forget that one is not to question

 

[tallyho8]

1. Price
2. Reliability
3. Amount of HP loss with HST
4. Ease and speed of use
I finally found the time to give my opinion on the reliability factor of HST. I spoke to several Kubota mechanics about this before making my decision to buy HST. All of them said that they had replaced many clutches and done a few transmission repairs on geared tractors but none had yet done any repairs to an HST. I found this hard to believe and maybe there is some reason that there are few HST repairs in my part of the country but they sure made it sound like HST was the more reliable version.

My best friend had a lawnmower shop for 38 years and he said he has never done any repairs to the trans in a ZTR lawnmower and he has been an Ariens dealer for many years with thousands of repairs yearly. This is why I got an Ariens ZTR mower for my small jobs. I think Ariens is the company that made most of the small John Deere mowers.

In my opinion, an HST will need way less repairs over the years than a geared model though I know many people who will be able to run a geared tractor their whole lives without ever even replacing a clutch. I don't believe that this should be the deciding factor on whether or not to get HST.

Maybe tomorrow I will have time to give my opinion on 3. Amount of HP loss with HST. (remember, this is my opinion and it cost you nothing and it is worth the price)

 

[patrick_g]

[I was also entertained by Egon's comments (usually am) I was pointing out that coordination is not my limitation./QUOTE]

Hey, send me your address so I can mail you a Loonie for the comment!

I will have to have "Loonie" translated, maybe. Is that $?

Egon, you had my address but it changed. Old one would work but they named our section line and now we have an honest to goodness street address instead of:

Rural Route 1
Box xyz,
Podunk, OK.


Isn't is nice that the keeper of the holy flames of tractor correctness allows us HST users to post here? It is a rare privilege and honor to be able to associate with them even in a small way as a clearly designated second class member.

I am in awe of the intelligence behind the "gentle" corrections applied to us to get us back on the true path. The tolerance demonstrated on a daily basis for us sorely misguided miscreants and cretins is truly amazing. Probably anywhere else in the world we would be shunned if not burned at the stake when we ask why it is that the purity of essence in tractoring maintains old fashioned transmission technology while allowing the impurity of rubber tires and electric start.

Pat

 

[DreaminGreen]

So....will the next thread be about needing to have ag and/or turf tires (no R4's allowed) and a vertical exhaust (stack) to be a proper tractor.

 

[N80]

In my opinion, an HST will need way less repairs over the years than a geared model though I know many people who will be able to run a geared tractor their whole lives without ever even replacing a clutch. I don't believe that this should be the deciding factor on whether or not to get HST.

Right, but anyone could guess just the opposite and be equally as likely to be correct. The reason that I say this is because reliability is simply an unknown. Valid reasons why you might see fewer repairs on HST would include a fluid based system to buffer shock loads but it might also include the fact that the vast majority of HST machines are weekend warriors, many of them not much bigger than a lawn tractor, that get very few hours per year and those hours likely spent mowing. Virtually any machine that gets limited use will get limited wear and tear.

Also, up until recently, geared CUTS and Uts probably got heavier use and abuse than comparable sized HSTs. With the decline of geared machines, that's probably not as true now and a geared machine like mine probably gets no more use than the average BX estate tractor.

Valid reasons HST might have more repairs would include more complexity. The converse is true for geared.

But here is the thing. If my clutch goes out, I'll fix it myself and there are a fair number of people here at TBN who could do the same. I dare say there are few if any who are going to go tinkering around in the guts of an HST. Plus, I suspect my clutch will last longer than me. But, being a pessimist, and after going on and on about how great gear tractors are and about how I'm the Zen Clutch Master, karma is bound to step in and mine is bound to burn out next weekend and I'll be posting a step by step pictorial about how I replaced it myself.

But as has been mentioned, there are virtually millions of aged gear machines with thousands of hours running on the original clutch. No matter how you slice it, that's a proven track record.

Maybe tomorrow I will have time to give my opinion on 3. Amount of HP loss with HST. (remember, this is my opinion and it cost you nothing and it is worth the price)

We're all ears. I'm sure we think we've heard it all by now but a fresh perspective would be a joy to behold.

As for comments (from others) about the gear heads being elitist; well how does that work? We're the ones forced into buying primitive (and by all accounts useless and dangerous) tractors with few amenities because we don't have the money for a luxurious HST with heated cup holders and an iPod socket. How is it that we're the snobs?

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not sure why I'm waisting MY time replying to one of your chain ratteling messages.. however.. I can offer an example to back up my 'less than' 100$ post.

You could get a N ford tractor sans starter.. yet still have battery ignition, rubber tires, generator voltage regulator and battery. The same trans bellhousing was used, and a blank plate was installed in the opening. AND you can hit many suppliers and get a starter for less than 100$.. so there... there's an example...

soundguy

[Hmm.. ok argument if you want one that isn't apples to apples. There are utilitarian and safety purposes for that electric start.. and the price differential from electric start vs a blank plate and hand crank is less than 100$.. if an HST tranny cost 80$ more than a gear.. I'm sure there might be some more gearheads jumping over.
/QUOTE]

Ahh dear; for less that $100. you get that lovely geared fly wheel, a formed bell housing for the starter, a battery, even a starter,voltage regulator and all the switch gear??? Yep sounds real reasonable to me and one don't even have to buy apples and oranges so one cane make a real comparison!

Don't know what the starter for my tractor costs but at $100. I should be able to buy lots and resell at a profit!

It must be difficult to keep the perspective in perspective so only ones own thoughts may be in the perspective.

Oh - did I forget that one is not to question