Loader GC2310 hydraulic issues...again!

[slb04786]

Look again at the link I provided above for the GC hydraulics. The backhoe valve is shown on that. But be sure to scroll down to the last post with the latest drawings. Those also show the loader lines albeit on your older model the coupler colors may vary.

I have looked back at your earlier threads on hydraulic problems and have refreshed my mind about "where we've been".

Good luck.

Dicktill,

Thanks. I had looked at your schematic of the hydraulics with loader and BH last night. Mine looks about the same but I was always under the impression that there was one pressure line to the BH from PB port and 2 return lines to the tank reservoir but looking at your schematic one line is a pressure line to the main control valve. I went to my local dealer and bought the “flow divider valve” they had in stock. I got to speak to a service person who has some familiarity with the GC2310 TLB. He told me those valve don’t go bad. He said the reason they had one in stock is probably because someone else thought they had a bad valve, ordered a replacement, and it wasn’t the problem. He said he would be looking at the hoses and coupling for the BH to be a problem. I bought their flow divider valve with the understanding I could bring it back if I didn’t install it. He said it was a head scratcher. I’ll let you know what I find when I get back to the tractor. 40 minute drive to my son’s house.

 

[Dmacleo]

He said he would be looking at the hoses and coupling for the BH to be a problem. I bought their flow divider valve with the understanding I could bring it back if I didn’t install it. He said it was a head scratcher. I’ll let you know what I find when I get back to the tractor. 40 minute drive to my son’s house.

this is why I asked about removing backhoe and checking hoses/connectors earlier. this happening while operating backhoe to load onto trailer is odd for sure.

 

[dicktill]

Yes, I am aware of the flow order. I was commenting the the main control valve/3pt spool will override or disable the flow to the FEL and BH. I way I know this is I was working on my lower lawn which is a little wet are and got too close to the ditch and the front of the tractor slid down the ditch. I had my BH on so I was using that to lift and pull my tractor back out of the ditch. In process of doing this I turned in the seat to the right and was operating the BH with my right hand. All of a sudden I lost hydraulics to the BH and FEL. I thought I had blown my hydraulic pump. Turns out I had hit the 3pt lift handle with my right leg which moves the main control valve. Once I returned the handle to its detent I got my external hydraulics back.

That is what I thought had happened Sunday when the hydraulics stopped working, But a quick check ruled it out. I am now leaning towards the flow divider given my test this afternoon. I will keep you posted on what I find. Problem is I am running out of days. I leave to go to Florida for the winter in a couple of weeks and need to get my camper winterized, closed up, and the Massey fixed.

I am befuddled about this event! It makes no sense to me considering the way that the loader, backhoe, and 3-point valves are plumbed. Is there any chance that something else happened? (color me confused)

Dicktill,

Thanks. I had looked at your schematic of the hydraulics with loader and BH last night. Mine looks about the same but I was always under the impression that there was one pressure line to the BH from PB port and 2 return lines to the tank reservoir but looking at your schematic one line is a pressure line to the main control valve. I went to my local dealer and bought the “flow divider valve” they had in stock. I got to speak to a service person who has some familiarity with the GC2310 TLB. He told me those valve don’t go bad. He said the reason they had one in stock is probably because someone else thought they had a bad valve, ordered a replacement, and it wasn’t the problem. He said he would be looking at the hoses and coupling for the BH to be a problem. I bought their flow divider valve with the understanding I could bring it back if I didn’t install it. He said it was a head scratcher. I’ll let you know what I find when I get back to the tractor. 40 minute drive to my son’s house.

Back to my "befuddlement", etc.: You've had this stuff taken apart previously. I think you need to trace all your lines against the factory or my schematic to be sure something isn't plumbed wrong.

Not to be spending your money, but I think you said that the control valve was no longer available. Perhaps you should invest in this one: Pardon Our Interruption.... He's been selling this stuff for 20% or more off, so make him an offer. Although it is for a GC 1720, it should be useable at worst with a bit of tweaking of fittings and such.

edit: have no idea why it labeled my link "pardon our interruption" but it does get you to the correct eBay listing. Gotta love computers ...

 

[oldnslo]

If he is getting no flow to the loader valve or backhoe highly doubtful problem is either one of those valves. The OP needs to determine why there is no flow coming to the loader flow. Looking at schematic the priority flow control block is the only valve in that circuit but again not sure how that block is drilled or machined.

Agree priority failure is typically spring fatigue or breaks or priority orifice plugs both of which should have some effect on steering. Not a commonly reported failure.

 

[WranglerX]

Would seem to me and my limited knowledge of hydraulic that looking at the whole system is sort of blinding the OP and others.... Sort of seeing the forest and not the trees..... IF you take each implement as a individual and going on premise "Power" (P) into valve block is correct and "Power Beyond" (PB) is correct and "Tank" (T) is correct ALL FROM PREVIOUS CORRECT OPERATION then problem is with one individual valve block or Quick Connect (QC), either at offending implements operation or maybe for some reason the PB to P connection to offending implement control is at fault.... Maybe a simplistic approach, but no different than troubleshooting electrical circuits or fuel system problems or the silly a$$ control valve on lawn/garden irrigation system....

Also maybe OPs diagnostic of what problem is may be at fault or how problem is being presented...... Might to be time to backup and star over to what actually is the problem...

 

[slb04786]

Back to my "befuddlement", etc.: You've had this stuff taken apart previously. I think you need to trace all your lines against the factory or my schematic to be sure something isn't plumbed wrong.

Not to be spending your money, but I think you said that the control valve was no longer available. Perhaps you should invest in this one: Pardon Our Interruption.... He's been selling this stuff for 20% or more off, so make him an offer. Although it is for a GC 1720, it should be useable at worst with a bit of tweaking of fittings and such.

edit: have no idea why it labeled my link "pardon our interruption" but it does get you to the correct eBay listing. Gotta love computers ...

Thanks for posting that! I made him an offer, we will see if he bites

this is why I asked about removing backhoe and checking hoses/connectors earlier. this happening while operating backhoe to load onto trailer is odd for sure.

Dmacleo,
Thanks for replying. I have taken your and the service techs advice and disconnected the BH hoses completely. Still no hydraulic pressure to the aux port, just power steering. I have the main hydraulic valve assembly off right now. I have removed all the plugs, pressure relief valve, flow control valve, and main valve. I have blown everything out with my compressor. We will trudge forward.
Thanks,
Stan

 

[slb04786]

Back to my "befuddlement", etc.: You've had this stuff taken apart previously. I think you need to trace all your lines against the factory or my schematic to be sure something isn't plumbed wrong.

Not to be spending your money, but I think you said that the control valve was no longer available. Perhaps you should invest in this one: Pardon Our Interruption.... He's been selling this stuff for 20% or more off, so make him an offer. Although it is for a GC 1720, it should be useable at worst with a bit of tweaking of fittings and such.

edit: have no idea why it labeled my link "pardon our interruption" but it does get you to the correct eBay listing. Gotta love computers ...

I have checked all of my hose connections to the loader and BH and everything looks ok per you hydraulic schematic with the loader and BH attached. I have also disconnected the loader and BH hoses with no change in symptoms. Definitely a head scratcher.

 

[oldnslo]

The question still is where do you have flow? If you remove excess flow line from priority flow control which is the supply for loader, backhoe, and 3 point is there any flow out that line? If yes can you install a flow control - needle valve on that line and see if flow stops if you try and build pressure? If you get flow and pressure at that point move to the next valve or connection and repeat.

since same pump feeds Steering and implements we can kind of presume the pump is good so based on that where is the fluid going since if pump is turning oil is going somewhere.

It is not the main relief since steering works.

 

[slb04786]

The question still is where do you have flow? If you remove excess flow line from priority flow control which is the supply for loader, backhoe, and 3 point is there any flow out that line? If yes can you install a flow control - needle valve on that line and see if flow stops if you try and build pressure? If you get flow and pressure at that point move to the next valve or connection and repeat.

since same pump feeds Steering and implements we can kind of presume the pump is good so based on that where is the fluid going since if pump is turning oil is going somewhere.

It is not the main relief since steering works.

oldnslo,
The excess flow line is the manifold that sits at the top of the main control valve assembly. It is held down by 2 small long metric bolts (possibly 5mm) The manifold has two metal lines coming from it. They go out under your right foot to a block. Connected to them is one line that goes to the pressure port on the loader valve assembly, the other line goes to the T port on the loader valve which if I am correct and looking at the hydraulic schematic, that was provided by another member, is the transmission return line. If I remove that manifold I get no flow from the pressure line, which is the same if I remove the other end of the line at the pressure port of the loader valve. If I put a pressure gauge on the test port I get near zero( 100 psi maybe?) until I operate the steering wheel then it jumps to 1200 psi. I have a long hydraulic hose that has a slow drip. I am thinking next time I am onsite I might try putting it on the power steering source port, run it under the tractor and plumb it into the loader pressure port and see what I get for pressure and see if the loader valves are working ok. If that works I'll try connecting the BH up and see if that all works ok.

At this time I did buy a used Main Hydraulic Control Valve Assembly (I think you sent me the link) for $400 plus tax. I was hoping it would be here by Set 25th but the tracking I got says Sept 26th which isn"t good for me. We are getting our camper ready to move to a new campground and the gentleman moving it says he might want to move it Friday Sept 26th. Anyhow, I do have the main hydraulic control assembly off the tractor so I may need to put it back on this weekend to 1)See if I fixed the problem by removing it and disassembling and cleaning every port and device attached to it or 2)Try connecting a hose the the power steering port and loader valve to see if I get get some pressure to the loader and test the loader that way. Does all that make sense?

Oh, and I did put a brand new flow divider valve on the main hydraulic assembly and it did not resolve the issue.

Thanks for listening to me!

 

[slb04786]

I've read this whole thread trying to learn something. I have absolutely no understanding of hydraulics other than a simple valve that will move a cylinder back and forth. Just want to relate a problem I had with no movement on a post hole auger on my GC2610. It was working fine and just quit. Just by luck, after a few minutes of looking stupid trying to figure out a problem I knew nothing about, I discovered that one of the couplers wasn't properly connected. It wouldn't come apart, but wasn't fully seated. Didn't know this was possible and neither did two other neighbours who have much more experience with equipment than I do. I felt very lucky finding this without taking it to a repair shop.

Good post. I don't know much about hydraulics and pressure but I am learning as I go. I was hoping this was going to be my issue after speaking with a service tech at a local dealer. But of course no such luck. He suggested the BH connections because it was the last hydraulic valve that was operated before it quit. Still trudging along. Stay with me and maybe we will both learn something.

 

[oldnslo]

oldnslo,
The excess flow line is the manifold that sits at the top of the main control valve assembly. It is held down by 2 small long metric bolts (possibly 5mm) The manifold has two metal lines coming from it. They go out under your right foot to a block. Connected to them is one line that goes to the pressure port on the loader valve assembly, the other line goes to the T port on the loader valve which if I am correct and looking at the hydraulic schematic, that was provided by another member, is the transmission return line. If I remove that manifold I get no flow from the pressure line, which is the same if I remove the other end of the line at the pressure port of the loader valve. If I put a pressure gauge on the test port I get near zero( 100 psi maybe?) until I operate the steering wheel then it jumps to 1200 psi.

If no flow at the excess flow port then the problem is upstream between the priority flow valve and that manifold port. I would expect minimal pressure on the test port since it would only be showing line losses and charge pressure when no other functions are being used.

Maybe look at where that excess flow block is mounted. If both pressure and tank are in that block is there a drill path that could connect them both in the main mating block?

Hopefully not chasing a thin casting wall or drill wondered that created a thin wall that fatigued and broke connecting pressure to tank. Chased that problem on some manifolds years ago and am sure have either more gray hair or less hair thanks to that.

I have a long hydraulic hose that has a slow drip. I am thinking next time I am onsite I might try putting it on the power steering source port, run it under the tractor and plumb it into the loader pressure port and see what I get for pressure and see if the loader valves are working ok. If that works I'll try connecting the BH up and see if that all works ok.

Great idea, my suspicion is the loader will work just slower. Lets see if proven wrong…

At this time I did buy a used Main Hydraulic Control Valve Assembly (I think you sent me the link) for $400 plus tax. I was hoping it would be here by Set 25th but the tracking I got says Sept 26th which isn"t good for me. We are getting our camper ready to move to a new campground and the gentleman moving it says he might want to move it Friday Sept 26th. Anyhow, I do have the main hydraulic control assembly off the tractor so I may need to put it back on this weekend to 1)See if I fixed the problem by removing it and disassembling and cleaning every port and device attached to it or 2)Try connecting a hose the the power steering port and loader valve to see if I get get some pressure to the loader and test the loader that way. Does all that make sense?

Oh, and I did put a brand new flow divider valve on the main hydraulic assembly and it did not resolve the issue.

Thanks for listening to me!

 

[Dmacleo]

Good post. I don't know much about hydraulics and pressure but I am learning as I go. I was hoping this was going to be my issue after speaking with a service tech at a local dealer. But of course no such luck. He suggested the BH connections because it was the last hydraulic valve that was operated before it quit. Still trudging along. Stay with me and maybe we will both learn something.

I was wondering about BH not really due to valve but hose damage on the 2 that connect together with BH removed due to possible drag damage while loading onto trailer. never had that stop fel fully but have had it drastically affect it while BH itself zero operation.

 

[oldnslo]

The back hoe valve and connections should have minimal affect on loader operation since loader is typically the first valve in the circuit. It will potentially prevent the 3 point from working.

If back hoe is connected incorrectly you could dead head the pump forcing all of the oil over system relief but loader should still work unless loader valve is a series / parallel style where flow from lift cylinders is fed into power beyond to feed tilt cylinders. Kubota used to and may still have that feature. Not sure on your MF though.

Either way you should pressure at loader valve even if back hoe is connected wrong.

 

[Bentrim]

While I was working (retired due to medical issues) I used to put loaders on the GC 2300 tractors.
Early tractors you took a three bolt cover off the right side of the top cover, Installed a plate with places to put hoses in. One hose went to the loader and the other returned the oil back thru the adapter to the three point hitch valve and one returned oil to sump.
Later tractors the hydraulic lines were run up under the RH floor board. There was a U shaped tube that you removed and put couplers and hoses to.
We never installed a backhoe as they only came installed from the factory. but I do remember three hoses to the hoe Theyn had couplers and were marked with colored zip ties. One was pressure, one returned oil to thr three point valve and the other went to sump.

You might want to check the couplers to be sure the aren' partially apart. Does the engine pull down or does the relief valve squeal when the engines running? Might want to loosen the lines on the tractor side of the lines under the RH floorboard.

Wth the diagram you included do you have any oil at the output of the pump or the inlet of the valve? You should because you have steering. Have you checked the suction scrren in the rear housing. If the pump can't get enough oil it may not be more than the steering needs. Or if the relief valve is open it cannot make pressure. Do you get flow out of the pressure line to the loader valve?

 

[Dmacleo]

wondering if loader and hoe have been physically removed and out of way. pressure gage on loader connections can be used to test. 3pt will not work at all with hoe attached. arms can't drop so can't really see if working. and lift may not be able to be heard when hits bypass (full rise) due to engine noise.
simplify everything, get all attachments off, hook your 2 hoe hoses together then test stuff.

 

[Bentrim]

Flow is Pump to priorty valve steering has priority after steering is supplied then flows to the loader valve. Loader valve to backhoe valve then to the three point hitch. Flow to loader comes from the pipe under the right floorboard and the power beyond is hooked to the return pipe. If tractor is not equiped with a loader the is a U shaped pipe that hooks those two pipes together to prvide flow to the hitch. The return port from the loader returns to sump. The power beyond flow goes to the BH pressure port. Yhe power beyond from the backhoe goes to the three point. The return port from the backhoe is to sump. If the backhoe is removed the supply hose to the backhoe must be connected to the hose that goes to the three point valve. If you connect wrong you may be returning the oil to the sump and none to the hitch valve. One hose, The one to the sump will be disconnected with the hoe off.
If you have no flow to the loader you have an issue with the pump, priority valve, or quick couplers.

 

[slb04786]

Thank you to everyone that has replied and offered assistance. The issue has been resolved. I am late in posting this update for a couple of reasons. 1)I have been busy on projects that got pushed to the back burner and 2)I am a bit embarrassed at the outcome.

One of you probably recommended this but the issue was caused by a partially plugged sump screen. I think it was oldnslo who told me the “flow divider” is actually a priority divider. It prioritizes the first 2 gpm exclusively to the power steering, anything beyond that goes to the aux hydraulics (loader, 3pt, BH, etc). So if your screen is partly plugged with sludge then and the charge pump can’t get 2gpm of flow then it all goes to the power steering. You can take the the top manifold block off the top of the main hydraulic control and you won’t get a drop of flow until the pump delivers more than 2 gpm. I think it might actually be 2.1 gpm, I was rounding down.

So I have drained the tranny, flushed as much as possible, blew air through the pressure, return, and power beyond lines. I then cleaned and reinstalled the screen, changed the hydro filter and refilled will new hydro/tranny oil. Fired up and had good pressure all around.

So I wanted to post this out of embarrassment but to also maybe educate someone else.
Stan Baker

 

[Dmacleo]

I thought that screen would have messed with actual ground drive which is why I ignored that, thank you for posting the fix.

 

[kenmbz]

Hope you can get the parts returned and recoup some cash.
Even with all the frustration and time spent, its working now so all good.

 

[slb04786]

Hope you can get the parts returned and recoup some cash.
Even with all the frustration and time spent, its working now so all good.

I did return the priority valve I had bought as I didn’t install it. I just couldn’t see that part going bad. I did buy a used main hydraulic control on ebay. I’ll either hang onto that or sell it to recoup my money.