Loader GC2310 hydraulic issues...again!

[slb04786]

Background, spring 2024 I replaced the hydro pump due to worn pump and gear spline. It has been working ok ever since until Sunday.

My GC2310 was working fine and then out of no where the loader, BH, and 3 pt lost hydraulics. Still have power steering and HST. I checked the main pressure relief valve and the spring is intack, the flow divider spring looks ok but I must confess I don't know much about how it works. I put a pressure gauge on the main port and have no pressure unless I run the power steer to full left or right and the pressure goes to 1200# which seems to be in tolerance. I took the top block with steel tubing off the top of the main control under the seat and I get no output from it. I also removed the pressure hose going to the loader and get no pressure which makes sense seeing as there isn't any pressure at the main block coming out of the main control valve. I haven't taken the main valve body off the tractor yet. I have taken the PRV and flow divider out and checked for broken springs and o-rings. I couldn't get to the main valve without taking the body off the tractor. I did take the plug out where the 3pt lift control attaches and could verify that the valve is moving back/forth when I operate the 3pt handle. So my question to you guys is, have you ever run into this? Do you have any thoughts or suggestions? Appreciate any help you can offer.

Stan Baker

 

[dicktill]

Background, spring 2024 I replaced the hydro pump due to worn pump and gear spline. It has been working ok ever since until Sunday.

My GC2310 was working fine and then out of no where the loader, BH, and 3 pt lost hydraulics. Still have power steering and HST. I checked the main pressure relief valve and the spring is intack, the flow divider spring looks ok but I must confess I don't know much about how it works. I put a pressure gauge on the main port and have no pressure unless I run the power steer to full left or right and the pressure goes to 1200# which seems to be in tolerance. I took the top block with steel tubing off the top of the main control under the seat and I get no output from it. I also removed the pressure hose going to the loader and get no pressure which makes sense seeing as there isn't any pressure at the main block coming out of the main control valve. I haven't taken the main valve body off the tractor yet. I have taken the PRV and flow divider out and checked for broken springs and o-rings. I couldn't get to the main valve without taking the body off the tractor. I did take the plug out where the 3pt lift control attaches and could verify that the valve is moving back/forth when I operate the 3pt handle. So my question to you guys is, have you ever run into this? Do you have any thoughts or suggestions? Appreciate any help you can offer.

Stan Baker

My first thought is that the dividing valve is not working.

 

[slb04786]

My first thought is that the dividing valve is not working.

That was my thought too. I don’t know how it works so I am not sure how to diagnose it. There are two sections to the divider seperated by o-rings. One section has multiple holes (like 8-9) and the other section has 3-4 holes. I am guessing that is how the flow is divided. But there is also a spring inside the tube that maintains pressure on a sliding cap. Almost like a pressure relief. Going to tear into it today and replace the o-rings. I also plan to get the main control valve out an replace those o-rings. I know the main control valve controls the 3pt lift and if it the 3pt handle is in the wrong position (off detent) the hydraulics stop working. But I don’t have 3pt lift either. Very confusing. Thans for your thoughts.

 

[oldnslo]

Is it a flow divider or priority flow control valve?

Flow divider divides the flow in a fixed proportion regardless of inlet flow. Example: 50/50, 60/40 ratio

A priority flow control sends a predetermined flow rate (priority) to steering and excess flow goes to implement functions. The priority flow is fixed so as engine speed increases implement flow increases.

I would suggest checking for flow to the loader valve to see if there is any. If not then have to work back to see where flow is going.

 

[Dmacleo]

my first thought was the pressure relief valve (on gc2400 its beside/under deck adjust knob) but seems you checked that.

 

[dicktill]

Is it a flow divider or priority flow control valve?

Flow divider divides the flow in a fixed proportion regardless of inlet flow. Example: 50/50, 60/40 ratio

A priority flow control sends a predetermined flow rate (priority) to steering and excess flow goes to implement functions. The priority flow is fixed so as engine speed increases implement flow increases.

I would suggest checking for flow to the loader valve to see if there is any. If not then have to work back to see where flow is going.

As always you are correct, it is a priority flow control, although the factory service manual calls it "flow dividing valve". The steering valve gets 7.5 liters/min, and the implement flow is 16.5 or 18.7 liters/min depending on whether it is the 23 or 25 horsepower model.

 

[Dmacleo]

are you able to get backhoe off or least disconnect and hook return line up?
years ago on a 2015 gc1710 I had a bad line (iirc was the blue/yellow one with crush damage) causing similar issues with fel. not to the extent you see but would prob want to remove it to work on it anyway.

 

[oldnslo]

Sounds like this was a sudden failure. If yes what were you doing when it failed?

How is the GC plumbed if it does NOT have a loader valve? Is there some plug that needs to removed or installed to direct flow to the loader valve and not 3 point hitch? I believe some tractors were made this way and if that plug falls out it disables all functions. Again not certain on the GC series.

 

[slb04786]

Is it a flow divider or priority flow control valve?

Flow divider divides the flow in a fixed proportion regardless of inlet flow. Example: 50/50, 60/40 ratio

A priority flow control sends a predetermined flow rate (priority) to steering and excess flow goes to implement functions. The priority flow is fixed so as engine speed increases implement flow increases.

I would suggest checking for flow to the loader valve to see if there is any. If not then have to work back to see where flow is going.

Thanks for the reply. I have taken the pressure line off at the loader valve and got no flow when the tractor is running. I moved back to the block at the top of the main hydraulic control and got no flow there. Which stands to reason this is the block with piping that goes to the loader pressure hose. I put a gauge on the port near the power steering pressure hose and got 1200# with the steering turned far left or right. Overnight I looked the hydraulics schematic over and concluded it was either the flow control valve or the main hydraulic valve. This AM I started with the flow control because you can get it out without taken the whole valve body off the tractor. There is what appears to be some sort of pressure control or relief spring that controls a plunger that slides back and forth inside the flow control valve. This isn’t shown on the parts list. I took the spring out so the plunger was free to move back and forth. I reinstalled it, started the tractor and then I had hydraulics to the BH(I have the FEL hoses disconnected because the bucket is tied up to prevent it dropping down and dragging). I still didn’t have 3pt lift so that confuses me somewhat. I am leaning towards the flow control but would like to verify for certain. Anythoughts? I have my pressure gauge on the left side near the PS pressure line and I am only seeing readings from the PS. I need to get on the main pump port to verify full hydraulics pressure. Thanks guys!

 

[slb04786]

Sounds like this was a sudden failure. If yes what were you doing when it failed?

How is the GC plumbed if it does NOT have a loader valve? Is there some plug that needs to removed or installed to direct flow to the loader valve and not 3 point hitch? I believe some tractors were made this way and if that plug falls out it disables all functions. Again not certain on the GC series.

We were loading the tractor ono or trailer to go get some wood. My son was driving and extended the BH arm so it wouldn’t drag when it went up the ramp. That worked but when he went to lift the loader bucket he had nothing. It certainly wasn’t being stressed.

The metal piping that bolts to the top of the main hydraulic valve is a supply and return that goes down under your right foot. There is a metal pipe that loops ties the supply and return together right there.

I do know the main hydraulic valve controls the flow to the 3 pt lift and hydraulics. You have no hydraulics when you are operating the 3pt handle. And that is the main hydraulics spool valve in that assembly under your seat. Ask me how I know.

Thanks for your valued input.

 

[slb04786]

As always you are correct, it is a priority flow control, although the factory service manual calls it "flow dividing valve". The steering valve gets 7.5 liters/min, and the implement flow is 16.5 or 18.7 liters/min depending on whether it is the 23 or 25 horsepower model.

That is good to know. As I said in another post I took the pressure spring out of the priority flow valve, reassembled and then I had pressure at my loader valves and BH.
Thoughts?

 

[dicktill]

Thanks for the reply. I have taken the pressure line off at the loader valve and got no flow when the tractor is running. I moved back to the block at the top of the main hydraulic control and got no flow there. Which stands to reason this is the block with piping that goes to the loader pressure hose. I put a gauge on the port near the power steering pressure hose and got 1200# with the steering turned far left or right. Overnight I looked the hydraulics schematic over and concluded it was either the flow control valve or the main hydraulic valve. This AM I started with the flow control because you can get it out without taken the whole valve body off the tractor. There is what appears to be some sort of pressure control or relief spring that controls a plunger that slides back and forth inside the flow control valve. This isn’t shown on the parts list. I took the spring out so the plunger was free to move back and forth. I reinstalled it, started the tractor and then I had hydraulics to the BH(I have the FEL hoses disconnected because the bucket is tied up to prevent it dropping down and dragging). I still didn’t have 3pt lift so that confuses me somewhat. I am leaning towards the flow control but would like to verify for certain. Anythoughts? I have my pressure gauge on the left side near the PS pressure line and I am only seeing readings from the PS. I need to get on the main pump port to verify full hydraulics pressure. Thanks guys!

<snip>

I do know the main hydraulic valve controls the flow to the 3 pt lift and hydraulics. You have no hydraulics when you are operating the 3pt handle. And that is the main hydraulics spool valve in that assembly under your seat. Ask me how I know.

Thanks for your valued input.

Yes, but in the opposite order: loader, backhoe, then 3-point. Have you looked at: How Massey Ferguson GC 1723 & 1725 hydraulics are plumbed?

" Ask me how I know." Please explain.

That is good to know. As I said in another post I took the pressure spring out of the priority flow valve, reassembled and then I had pressure at my loader valves and BH.
Thoughts?

Photos please! Have you taken out the pressure relief valve? It may have some crud in it.

Do you have the factory service manual?

 

[oldnslo]

Slb
How many hoses connect between the back hoe and tractor? Reason for asking is that some models do not allow the 3 point to work with the back hoe installed.

Can you post the hydraulic schematic that you have. It might help with potential doagnosis.

 

[slb04786]

Yes, but in the opposite order: loader, backhoe, then 3-point. Have you looked at: How Massey Ferguson GC 1723 & 1725 hydraulics are plumbed?

" Ask me how I know." Please explain.


Photos please! Have you taken out the pressure relief valve? It may have some crud in it.

Do you have the factory service manual?

Yes, I am aware of the flow order. I was commenting the the main control valve/3pt spool will override or disable the flow to the FEL and BH. I way I know this is I was working on my lower lawn which is a little wet are and got too close to the ditch and the front of the tractor slid down the ditch. I had my BH on so I was using that to lift and pull my tractor back out of the ditch. In process of doing this I turned in the seat to the right and was operating the BH with my right hand. All of a sudden I lost hydraulics to the BH and FEL. I thought I had blown my hydraulic pump. Turns out I had hit the 3pt lift handle with my right leg which moves the main control valve. Once I returned the handle to its detent I got my external hydraulics back.

That is what I thought had happened Sunday when the hydraulics stopped working, But a quick check ruled it out. I am now leaning towards the flow divider given my test this afternoon. I will keep you posted on what I find. Problem is I am running out of days. I leave to go to Florida for the winter in a couple of weeks and need to get my camper winterized, closed up, and the Massey fixed.

 

[slb04786]

Slb
How many hoses connect between the back hoe and tractor? Reason for asking is that some models do not allow the 3 point to work with the back hoe installed.

Can you post the hydraulic schematic that you have. It might help with potential doagnosis.

Oldnslo,
I have three hoses going to and fro the BH. One goes to the PB port on the loader valve, another to the tank return on the transmission, and the third goes to the main control valve from what I can tell. I think they are hooked up correctly and the tractor had been working ok until it just stopped. I may try unhooking the BH and bypassing it next time I am onsite.

I don't have a hydraulic schematic for the BH but I have the GC2300 service manual. I will attach the 3 pages about the hydraulics. It doesn't mention the FEL or BH connections, just aux valve/loader valve.

 

[oldnslo]

Your three lines to the backhoe sound correct and agree if was working they probably are not the problem especially since not getting any flow from priority flow control to FEL circuit. Typical operation of priority flow is if you block priority flow, excess flow will stop also. Blocking excess flow has little to no effect on priority flow.

Is there any passage in the priority flow block or manifold that could connect excess flow to tank? I.e. some drill path that is supposed to be plugged but plug worked loose.

This would explain having steering but no auxiliary functions.

Certainly not a “normal” failure mode.

 

[dicktill]

Yes, I am aware of the flow order. I was commenting the the main control valve/3pt spool will override or disable the flow to the FEL and BH. I way I know this is I was working on my lower lawn which is a little wet are and got too close to the ditch and the front of the tractor slid down the ditch. I had my BH on so I was using that to lift and pull my tractor back out of the ditch. In process of doing this I turned in the seat to the right and was operating the BH with my right hand. All of a sudden I lost hydraulics to the BH and FEL. I thought I had blown my hydraulic pump. Turns out I had hit the 3pt lift handle with my right leg which moves the main control valve. Once I returned the handle to its detent I got my external hydraulics back.

I am befuddled about this event! It makes no sense to me considering the way that the loader, backhoe, and 3-point valves are plumbed. Is there any chance that something else happened? (color me confused)

 

[dicktill]

I don't have a hydraulic schematic for the BH but I have the GC2300 service manual. I will attach the 3 pages about the hydraulics. It doesn't mention the FEL or BH connections, just aux valve/loader valve.

Look again at the link I provided above for the GC hydraulics. The backhoe valve is shown on that. But be sure to scroll down to the last post with the latest drawings. Those also show the loader lines albeit on your older model the coupler colors may vary.

I have looked back at your earlier threads on hydraulic problems and have refreshed my mind about "where we've been".

Good luck.

 

[ray66v]

My GC2310 was working fine and then out of no where the loader, BH, and 3 pt lost hydraulics. Still have power steering and HST.

I have heard this before, and it's how I got the mistaken impression there were two hydraulic pumps.

 

[not2old]

I've read this whole thread trying to learn something. I have absolutely no understanding of hydraulics other than a simple valve that will move a cylinder back and forth. Just want to relate a problem I had with no movement on a post hole auger on my GC2610. It was working fine and just quit. Just by luck, after a few minutes of looking stupid trying to figure out a problem I knew nothing about, I discovered that one of the couplers wasn't properly connected. It wouldn't come apart, but wasn't fully seated. Didn't know this was possible and neither did two other neighbours who have much more experience with equipment than I do. I felt very lucky finding this without taking it to a repair shop.