Comparison Gasoline vs. Diesel

[Soundguy]

Wasn't that loosely based on the old Farmall Cub? Or am I thinking of something different? I know the Cub in modified version, and the Farmall-a(-100) made it to about '80.

this looked like any other small cut or large scut you might find. in fact had it been blue it might have looked like a nh 1630 or a later tc 24 or similar.

this was for sure a late 90's unit. i remember looking at one on a dealers lot with me new 2nd wife.. thus time frame has to be 95-98

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Just curious,but how'd that work out for them ?

i'm not sure what you mean.. I don't have any financial records for cub nor would I be able to guess what percentage of their sales went to what models.

like any thing.. they now no longer offer it and offer other models.. just about every other tractor manufacturer i know of does that. brings out a model.. gives it a few years run, then changes to another model.

i kinda like gasser tractors.. i almost bought one of them cubs...

soundguy

 

[oldballs]

Ask me in about 28 years.:laughing: That's how long my 18 HP twin Onan gasser has operated in my Case garden tractor (about 2000 hrs). No overhaul, good maintenance and dependability has served me well. But I really do like my Kubota diesel so far, even with the diesel's down sides that have already been mentioned.

 

[Car Doc]

I have had both and diesel is by far the best power plant both for brute force and best of all fuel efficiency I wont ever go back to gas in a tractor. my 2c

 

[gengine]

I guess I wasn't think about CUT's. I I were to get one for the property maintenance, I would seriously consider a gasser. I was stuck on the farming part. I grew up on a 1950 John Deere A doing all the haying. It is night and day difference to my Massey 165. Both are 40ish h.p., but the extra torque that I get from the diesel while baleing is nice to have. Remember, horse power is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

 

[Soundguy]

for sure on anything big i wouldn't want a gasser.. small stuff it's ok. past about 50 hp gassers can eat a hole in your wallet fast..

soundguy

 

[BigBlockHead]

Guys, I really appreciate the feedback and I have to say I'm impressed. 3 pages of comments and they're all well thought, well articulated and I don't disagree with any of them. Even the ones that got technical got it right to the best of my knowledge.

Let me ask it another way: It's 2013 and you're on the showroom floor looking at a 35hp diesel CUT. In 2011 you could take that tractor home for $12,000. Today (2013), they can't let it go for anything less than $16,000 and it has EGR and a DPF. There's another identical 35hp CUT on the floor, the only exception being it's gasoline powered. What would the price of that gas tractor have to be before you'd seriously consider it? Keep in mind it's fuel injected and electronically controlled so the points and carburetors we all grew up to hate on a gas tractor are things of the past.

 

[Soundguy]

wow.. fuel injected too! I think I'd rather maybee have a carb

as a semi-wag.. I think you might see a 1500$ gap in the gasser vs diesel. whether that's enough to make me take it home is another thing... that's getting into real money at 16K$

soundguy

 

[RobertN]

I would want to see the torque curve. Is it as flat as the diesel? And, what is the fuel consumption at rated PTO speed? I wanna know how it works, ie luggin in heavy grass with a mower ect.

Let me ask it another way: It's 2013 and you're on the showroom floor looking at a 35hp diesel CUT. In 2011 you could take that tractor home for $12,000. Today (2013), they can't let it go for anything less than $16,000 and it has EGR and a DPF. There's another identical 35hp CUT on the floor, the only exception being it's gasoline powered. What would the price of that gas tractor have to be before you'd seriously consider it? Keep in mind it's fuel injected and electronically controlled so the points and carburetors we all grew up to hate on a gas tractor are things of the past.

 

[Soundguy]

add to that good info by robert, i'd like to see the rpm range of both engines.. both idle, max, and pto rated speeds.. that would also make a difference to ground speed and trans options I would assume.. ie.. different gear ratio if the same trans if different input rpm range.. etc.

soundguy

 

[BigBlockHead]

Fair questions.
For the sake of argument, let's say the gas engine was sized by matching peak torque with the diesel and then the top end was trimmed to bring max power down to match, 35hp in this case. The rated speed for the gas is at 3000 RPM, same as the diesel in our fairy tale scenario. This results in performance of the gas engine being very similar to that of the diesel. It also results in a larger displacement (thirstier) gas engine to do the same work as a similarly rated diesel, as has been astutely pointed out in previous comments. The real data needed is the bsfc of each and if I could see into 2013 I'd give you that. Let's say the burn rate of the gasser is 15% above the diesel at rated PTO speed. What does the purchase price spread have to be for the gasser to be feasible?

 

[ccsial]

I know there are gas powered lawn and garden tractors but does anyone still make a gas CUT?

 

[Car Doc]

I would probably buy a slightly used tractor rather than buy into the new emissions technology right off or buy the new one now before hand.

Especially if you are talking CUT sized equipment it could get more expensive than you realize once its been operated awhile look at Ford diesel pickups what they cost to maintain just my 2c.

 

[cdaigle430]

I will avoid buying small gas engines only because of the ethonal crap.

 

[oldballs]

Well, here's a non-engineer take on it. Anything over 20 HP all else being equal, as stated by Block Head, I'd go diesel in tractor equipment. And I'll bet the price spread (new) on the two wouldn't be that great using state-of-the-art manufacturing and regulations. Thus the choice would be based on the individual's climate and other specific reasons.

 

[RobertN]

Wonder how the price would be? I think a lot of specualtion herer is based on the diesel option in pickup, which are $$$$$

Well, here's a non-engineer take on it. Anything over 20 HP all else being equal, as stated by Block Head, I'd go diesel in tractor equipment. And I'll bet the price spread (new) on the two wouldn't be that great using state-of-the-art manufacturing and regulations. Thus the choice would be based on the individual's climate and other specific reasons.

 

[MossRoad]

I had a late 70's IH2500b tractor loader. It weighed about 8000 pounds, had an HST transmission, 50 PTO horse power and was strong enough to knock over 12" trees by just driving up to them, putting the bucket against it and driving forward. It had a gas engine. So, gas can do the job. Especially on an HST machine, where you run the engine at a constant RPM, at the peak of the engine's torque curve.

The thing was 30 years old and had thousands of hours on it. Still worked hard. 50PTO HP is 50PTO HP no matter if it is diesel or gas.

My current machine is a hydraulically articulated loader with HST drive and powered by a 25HP Kohler gas engine. It seems to work just fine for me.

 

[Soundguy]

ditto that..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I had a late 70's IH2500b tractor loader. It weighed about 8000 pounds, had an HST transmission, 50 PTO horse power and was strong enough to knock over 12" trees by just driving up to them, putting the bucket against it and driving forward. It had a gas engine. So, gas can do the job. Especially on an HST machine, where you run the engine at a constant RPM, at the peak of the engine's torque curve.

The thing was 30 years old and had thousands of hours on it. Still worked hard. 50PTO HP is 50PTO HP no matter if it is diesel or gas.

My current machine is a hydraulically articulated loader with HST drive and powered by a 25HP Kohler gas engine. It seems to work just fine for me.

i hear ya.. I've had the chance to work on a 5000 gasser. pretty sure those were the older 233ci engines. big powerfull.. hungry.. just a lil more hp than that machine you were working with.. but can imagine the gas consumption when making that hp on a steady basis.. like mowing with a large mower.. etc..

 

[Gittyup]

$1500 difference, probably not. $3000 difference, would get me to looking at the very least. Fuel consumption is not a real consideration. It's inconsequential for the average user, cost wise.