Gasoline taxes

/ Gasoline taxes #21  
more climate related? Are you driving mostly primary roads?

when fuel taxes far exceed their need for infrastructure maintenance and improvement,
it's just another government straight tax, hardest on the low income.
when you think of all the different ways we are taxed...
no don't, too taxing...;)

possible stupid question...are fuel taxes the same for gasoline as road diesel?
thanks.

All roads. I am a pilot and spend a night or two in just about every state. Drive all roads from airport entry roads to whatever destination I want to visit.

In my opinion it has to do with economy. States with right to work in place seem to have stronger economy and better roads, schools, airports, public services, ect.

Chris
 
/ Gasoline taxes #23  
/ Gasoline taxes #24  
I only know the taxes on diesel are high enough that I save receipts for my off road use to reclaim those taxes at the end of the year.
 
/ Gasoline taxes
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Care to clarify that statement, because as it stands it could not be any more factually incorrect.
nicely said...
Ok, based on the whopping increase in fuel prices over the years, I agree. I wasn't doing the relative math very well, but when one looks at the percentage of tax on a $3.50 cent gallon of regular in some states, the percentage of tax is pretty high in those top tier states.

and this was interesting:
Almost two-thirds of the poor-condition rural interstate mileage is in just five states: California, Alaska, Minnesota, New York and Colorado.

Over half (52.7 percent) of the poor-condition urban interstate mileage is in just five states: California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois and Texas.


what is surprising to me is the bad showing for California. New York takes it on the chin also.
 
/ Gasoline taxes #26  
Care to clarify that statement, because as it stands it could not be any more factually incorrect.
nicely said...
Ok, based on the whopping increase in fuel prices over the years, I agree. I wasn't doing the relative math very well, but when one looks at the percentage of tax on a $3.50 cent gallon of regular in some states, the percentage of tax is pretty high in those top tier states.

and this was interesting:
Almost two-thirds of the poor-condition rural interstate mileage is in just five states: California, Alaska, Minnesota, New York and Colorado.

Over half (52.7 percent) of the poor-condition urban interstate mileage is in just five states: California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois and Texas.


what is surprising to me is the bad showing for California. New York takes it on the chin also.


I can understand California and Texas, if you assume that infrastructure was underinvested in all over the country. And Ny, NJ, ILL, all have pretty severe winters. I think just on the freeze thaw cycle, the northern states are always going to need more revenue to maintain the same level of service. We have had sections of road heave up here, in very cold weather or hot weather. A lot of parking lots here are pretty bad, they haven't been maintaining them very well.
 
/ Gasoline taxes #27  

That's interesting. One factor that it doesn't seem to consider is that states are not geographically equal in terms of how challenging/costly the terrain is to build and maintain highways.

For example, comparing West Virginia to Wyoming, which would be the more difficult and costly for roads? Yes the Rockies are in Wyoming, but there are also many elevated mesas or valleys in Wyoming or Colorado that run for miles and miles, and are flat as pancakes with very few features to deal with. Are there any flat places in West Virginia? :laughing:

Places with high traffic density will typically spend more to get the same work done than in lightly traveled areas too. The roads in high density areas cannot realistically be closed for work. Some factor for a state's average density would need to be applied to level the comparisons.
 
/ Gasoline taxes #28  
The other popular plan being floated is to move to a miles based tax as people with e-cars and high efficiency cars seem not to "pay there share". NOTE, this plan is popular with states, yet very unpopular with the people as it generally is implemented via GPS tracking.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't have to be. I would imagine that most, if not all states have annual emissions inspections these days. No reason mileage couldn't be recorded when you're in for that, and be billed by the state for the mileage you've driven since the last inspection.

Didn't realize something along this line was being considered. Makes sense, this way people who drive eco-boxes aren't getting an almost free ride at the expense of those who drive low-MPG vehicles (not to mention the amount of road taxes paid on gas that's never used on public roads; lawnmowers, snowmobiles/ATVs, etc.).
 
/ Gasoline taxes #29  
In Texas, it was law that once the cost of a roadway was paid off, it could no longer be a toll road. Somewhere along the way, without telling the public, they changed that law, and now want Mexico to run the tolls, and get the money. Wish I knew which politicians to thank for that, as I'd like to punch them in the nose, (verbally! Before the black vehicles show up here.)

The other thing is, larger, higher grow weight vehicles pay more in licensing fees each year, than smaller, lighter cars. So, they are NOT getting and "almost free ride". The more a truck can legally carry or tow, the higher the fee.

And diesel should still be cheaper than gas. What would they do with it, if we didn't burn it? after all, it is basically the dregs that is leftover, after they have refined out the other usable stuff. For some reason, that isn't the case, anymore.
 
/ Gasoline taxes
  • Thread Starter
#30  
And diesel should still be cheaper than gas. What would they do with it, if we didn't burn it?


boy you bet, all of a sudden it flip flopped with gas, and what was cheaper than regular is now more expensive than premium.
No justification. Not temporary either, it's a new ballgame folks.

heating oil was running over 4.50 a gallon here earlier this winter. And we still have a lot of older homes here running fuel oil systems.
Some old homes have an oil burner at each end. Slurp.
and the only break around here was when Citgo was doing their Venezuelan heating oil giveaway/super discounts in New England.
haven't heard about that in a while.

I have sat on my Meeting's finance committee for almost twenty years and scratching our head over fuel oil costs
is an annual affair. We usually did the budget, then got abused, then dropped the budget, got hammered by some embargo, and decided we could never
play the market again and went back to the budget never to change again.

I'm glad to see America is getting more energy independent. We must use energy or we don't eat, get cold, go nowhere without a horse, etc. so energy, other than water, is fully interwoven into our lives and an ideal tax target. Seems to be just another sale/use type tax. and instead of allowing people to cheat on the income tax, the tax gets collected whether they like it or not. So I'm sure the collection rate is far superior than voluntary types. And the income is daily, constant and easily increased. There are taxes on municipal water or sure enough fees..., but so far, that I know of, nothing for the air we breathe.

I would love to live where I could have a windmill or two and create my own AC that way.
But as long as farm equipment runs on gasoline or diesel, I don't think I'm going to get far
from that favorite whiff of diesel in the morning...

So farmers (how real do they have to be?) can buy their diesel (off road diesel) for the onroad price less
all these taxes? I'm sure many of you do this already, but we have few places locally set up for that.
 
/ Gasoline taxes #31  
I found this recently updated map very interesting.
Now I know why I drive ten miles over into NJ to refuel...lowest taxes in the Nation, still.
I wonder why?

wonder if there is something similar for road diesel.

Does the South typically charge less for taxes because they don't have the winter road destruction as up North, or
is this politically intentional?

Whats that, the price in cents per liter, or the percentage of tax ?

Opposition parties are now calling for a tax relief because many people drive to Germany to fill their tank, and in the meanwhile buy their alcohol, clothes, shoes and other stuff there as well... They are taxing the **** out of everything....
 
/ Gasoline taxes
  • Thread Starter
#33  
are taxes the only reason Europe's fuel is so expensive?
Why such a huge difference from here? Distribution cost?

Wasn't Venezuela trying to buy the hearts and minds of their citizens by selling them fuel for a nickel a gallon for a while?
Fill her up and change from a buck. Now if we could do that with an inherently cleaner fuel...the next version of biodiesel perhaps,
since I wouldn't mind filling my fuel tank at McDonald's along with getting my fries that fuel recently cooked. Just seems like great recycling.
And I'm sure McDonalds would be collecting fuel tax unwillingly but would...
 
/ Gasoline taxes #35  
are taxes the only reason Europe's fuel is so expensive?
more than half of what i pay for a liter of Diesel (1.40 euro) or someone else pays for gas (1.75 euro) goes to the gubbermint. An awful lot of excise duty, and 21% VAT on top of that.
 
/ Gasoline taxes #36  
So now we've moved so much to the private sector.
How do you like it so far?
 
/ Gasoline taxes #37  
Cents of tax per gallon ? or cents of consumer price per gallon ?

Tax in cents per gallon. For example, I bought gasoline today in SC for $3.0590/gallon. The total tax (state and federal) in SC is $0.3515/gallon. Thus, the service station received $3.059/gallon from me, will pay $0.3515/gallon to the tax authorities, and will have a revenue of $2.7075/gallon after these taxes.

Steve
 
/ Gasoline taxes #38  
Here in Washington, we have pretty high gas taxes and they are trying (or already did) pass a law to add 11.5 cents per gallon in taxes. They were also considering charging electric car owners additional fees since they don't pay as much (or any) gas taxes but still use the roads... They have tried to get laws passed that charge taxes per mile... DOT is struggling here because the unions pushed the wages and benefits so high that there is little money left for maintaining and building roads.... very poorly managed in my opinion.
 
/ Gasoline taxes #39  
And that gas station was owned by the oil company represented on the gas pump.
So the oil company grosses 25 cents per gallon less operation costs that are written off against profits.
Combine that with loop holes 'laying about' in the tax codes....they pay no, as in zero taxes on 25 cents a gallon.
 
/ Gasoline taxes #40  
Doesn't have to be. I would imagine that most, if not all states have annual emissions inspections these days. No reason mileage couldn't be recorded when you're in for that, and be billed by the state for the mileage you've driven since the last inspection.

your right it doesnt have to be, but there are some serious issues that basicly mean that plan will not work.

ill give you 2 examples.
1) you live in some city. you spend 100% of your time driveing in and around that city. you always purchase gas in/around that same city. That city then collects local sales tax, and that state collects state tax to repair those roads you drive on. City uses tax $ to repair city roads, state uses some of the tax money to repair major state highways that run through/around the city. This plan seems to have you pay for what you use.

2) you have a sales job and you cover a 3-4-5 (some large) state region. You spend 90% of your time driving from site to site to do you job. You put 60K miles a year on your car but they are spread out over (say) the midwest. You buy gas twice a day every day. So as you travel through one area, you stop and buy gas there. 300 miles down the road, rinse and repeat. Those local jurisdictions get tax $ to repair roads you drove on for some short period of time. Those midwest states you traveld through all got a little piece of the gas tax as you drove through them and stopped and got gas. Point is, on avg you distributed the amount of tax you payed around to the various municipalities that should have gotten it.

now enter your simple "i drove 20K miles this year I pay $ 680 tax bill." but to who! the state? which state? how much goes to each? What if the states you drove in have different tax rates (which they do)... Are we going to make the user keep a log of how many miles they traveled in each state? How about local municipalities?

Some suggest that dropping the state and fed taxes in favor of a millage based system would work, but keeping municipality taxes at the pump. you still have to overcome the how much of your tax pie each state gets if you dont specifically track were you go.

the point is, its not as simple as saying my odometer rolled over another 15K this year, ill include an extra $800 on my fed tax return this year. Now COULD you make it that simple, shure, but thats not going to happen.

My short term solution (for the next 10 years say) is to move away from per gal tax and to a % sale tax. If the price doubles again, so does the tax money.

While we are at it, All prices for EVERYTHING should be after tax. If i was president, consumer protection rule would be all prices for any good/service is always final price paid. Taxes, fees, surcharges included.
 

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