Oil & Fuel Fuel additives for diesel?

[john_bud]

Some states are pushing 10% bio. Ill is one state and they had some major issues with the last cold snap. It takes a different chemical to inhibit fuel crystalization with bio in the mix.

 

[dodge man]

I live in Illinois and I am not sure if I am getting a bio-diesel mix or not? I had a little problem last weekend. I'm not sure if the fuel was gelling or my filter was just dirty, but when I changed the filter it fixed it. I cut the filter open and it looked O.K., but who knows. I keep the tractor in a heated garage but keep it pretty cool, 45 degrees, and I treat my fuel with Howes. I had been keeping the tractor in a unheated garage before that but when it got really cold, I moved it to the heated garage.

 

[LBrown59]

And Triple-tractor BrowN (TBN ),
I like your set up but .
1*you would have to schlep the yellow jugs around to fill those monsters up--.
2*I got one of those scepter flo 'n go pumps and I just set my diesel can up on a ladder to fill up.

1*I use the hose looped around the green hose hanger to fill the taller drum.
Then I use the pump to fill the shorter drum from the taller drum.
I do not schlep any yellow 5 gallon jugs around to fill those monsters up.One of the features of this set up is it eliminates the jugs as well as eliminating handling of heavy drums of fuel.
2*Actually filling these monsters is easier than lifting a 5 gallon can/jug up onto a ladder and I don't have to dig out a ladder and put it away either.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

LBrown: How do you fill the big drum? Home delivery pumped into your drum?

 

[LBrown59]

LBrown: How do you fill the big drum?
*Home delivery pumped into your drum?

*Yeah home delivery.
I can also throw the 3rd 55 gallon drum that's setting in the corner in the bed of my pickup and take it to get it filled.
Then when I get back with it I take the hose hanging on the wall and drop the end of the hose into the drum on the truck and use the set ups pump to transfer the fuel out of the drum on the truck into the second drum of the set up.

These 2 pictures show me making such a transfer.

 

[smfcpacfp]

Cloud points(assuming no biodiesel)for #2 is maybe 5-6F.

Just so you will know, the cloud point on #2 diesel is +40F

 

[john_bud]

Just so you will know, the cloud point on #2 diesel is +40F

That's correct for "untreated" diesel. The exact mixture will also affect what needs to be done to treat it!

It's a crap shoot, that's why many here add stuff to help stop gelling. And if you have bioD mix in the 10% range, it may gel at -25-30F no matter what you do!

jb

 

[number two]

smfcpacfp:Respectfully sir,it is my belief you're misinformed on the cloud point of #2 diesel fuel.I've never seen ULSD cloud point listed at the terminals we load at over +8F.Think about it,you'd be on the verge of gelling before water would freeze.Anyhow,great buying opportunities on the market yesterday,eh!Good Day.

 

[smfcpacfp]

smfcpacfp:Respectfully sir,it is my belief you're misinformed on the cloud point of #2 diesel fuel.I've never seen ULSD cloud point listed at the terminals we load at over +8F.Think about it,you'd be on the verge of gelling before water would freeze.Anyhow,great buying opportunities on the market yesterday,eh!Good Day.

Sorry but I am not misinformed. Although it can vary a bit, the standard cloud point for #2 diesel is around +40F. It is the wax (parafin) in #2 diesel that causes the gelling issue. As you probably know from burning a candle, wax hardens at well above the freezing point of water. This wax is a good lubricant. Sometimes ULSD sold at pump in the winter is blended (some#1) and thus has a lower cloud point. Because we live in a cold climate we have #1 diesel which has a cloud point of -40F but very little wax in it, which is why you need to add a lubricating additive to #1.

 

[FF Bob]

Can you use karosene w/a treatment and is it cheaper w/o the road tax ?
I worked at a gas station in highschool and people tried to pump it right into their VW's .

 

[shaqer74]

My fuel filter gelled the other day and I was using double doses of Power Service. It was sub-zero a few days prior and the tractor sits in an unheated pole barn. I just bought some Howe's diesel treat and will see how that fares.

Just thought I would post my recent experience...I started up my BX2350 at about +20F. It ran fine for about 2 minutes, before starting to studder and eventually dies. Try to restart, and it wants to, but not enough fuel. So I start thinking what could be wrong, never had a problem before. Call my dealer and he says it sounds like the fuel is gelling, first time I have heard of diesel fuel gelling(my first and only diesel). He suggests that I get some 911, add it to the tank and remove the fuel filter and 911 to it.

So I get the Power Service 911(32oz bottle for $7.99). And thought I would also get some fuel treatment since the 911 is only for emergency situations, got the Power Service version also. Since the next day was suppose to be above freezing, I thought I would just add some 911 and the fuel treatment to the tank and wait for tomorrow to come so the sun can warm it up a little. Waited til the afternoon, went out and it started right up. Used it for about 30 minutes to plow, put it away and haven't had a problem since.

 

[okgarcia]

Check out this .pdf from The Diesel Place web site. I now use Opti-lube. I hope I attached the document correctly.

 

[actionaj]

Check out this .pdf from The Diesel Place web site. I now use Opti-lube. I hope I attached the document correctly.

Good read. I see that Power Service is at the bottom of the list. And that 2-stroke oil is better.

 

[Evil the Weasel]

I've seen this before, but it is a lubricity study. It's not ranking additives based on their anti-gel performance.

 

[PUSHINDIRT]

I live in upstate NY, have always had diesels (cars and tractors) a little kero and an anti-gel additive seems to do the trick. I honestly do not have a favorite brand, I just make sure I get my diesel from a station where the big-rigs fill up. It keeps me running!

 

[smfcpacfp]

Can you use karosene w/a treatment and is it cheaper w/o the road tax ?
I worked at a gas station in highschool and people tried to pump it right into their VW's .

Kerosene is very close to #1 diesel (cloud point -40F), so you would want to add a lubricating additive like Opti-Lube XPD. I bought some for my heater and it was $5 a gallon when diesel was around $3.50.

 

[DieselPower]

I've been running diesel powered trucks for a few decades.
Initially I would dutifully slop in all kinds of recommended additives, but other than buyer's remorse they gave me nothing in return.
These days I just load up at truck stops where they turn over a lot of fuel, the mix is seasonally adjusted, plus a safety margin.
I am not having truck problems.
I get my tractor fuel at a similar place, less than 2 miles from the house, but he turns over a good quantity of fuel, so it is fresh.
I am not having tractor problems.

There is another recent thread where folk are be-moaning the fact that they are having cold start problems DESPITE having twice the recommended doses of xy_whatever.
For some odd reason they seem to be going for even more of what isn't working for them (puzzled).
Basically additives are hokum, OK snake oil.
Drain the glass bowl FREQUENTLY, change filters, fill up ONLY where they sell a lot of fuel and take care of their in-ground tanks.
Don't get snow in your tank if you fill from 5 gallon jugs.

Either there isn't a problem or additives aren't the solution.

Your kidding right? So I guess the additive package in engine oils, hydraulic oils, gear oils, etc... serves no purpose either.

Fact is pour point depressant's do lower the pour point of diesel fuel. Wax is present in diesel fuel and at some point the wax crystals start to clump together. Pour point depressants lower the temperature at which the wax crystals start to stick together.

One of the main reasons many people find they still have gelling problems when they are using a pour point depressant is because of large variations in the makeup of fuel. Depending on what crude oil was used to make it and the refining process there can be a huge difference in pour points from one fuel to another. One fuel may gel at 40 deg. F while another at 0 deg. F. Since the introduction of ULSD there has been a large increase in gelling problems even when treated with a PPD. The problem is there are hundreds of compounds in diesel fuel and literally dozens of different types of wax molecules. The first year of ULSD was the worst. Since then most additive manufacturers have had to reformulate their PPD additives to work with newly formed wax molecules that they had never had to deal with before. It's a ever changing science with large variables they have to keep up with.

I think one of the most common reasons for fuel gelling with the use of PPD's is over confidence and incorrect quantities being used. I say over confident but I think I would be more correct in saying over inflated advertising claims on the PPD manufacturers part. I have seen many spec. sheets that say their additive will lower to xx degrees using the listed mix ratio. That alone should raise a red flag. There is no additive that will lower the gel point of all the different types of diesel fuel to a exact temperature, there's just to many variables. What you should look for and what some PPD manufacturers will list is how much their additive will lower the pour point on average. The average is usually around a 25 to 30 degree change. Seeing as there are some fuels that gel around +30 to as high as +40 deg. F. untreated if you add the regular treat rate of the PPD you might get as low as 0 deg. F. It's no wounder people are having gelling problems. Next it is the misconception that doubling the treat ratio will double the protection level. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Usually every time you double the treat ratio you get half more in pour point reduction. If it lowers 25 degrees at the standard treat ratio it will lower it about 37.5 when doubled, 43.75 when tripled and so on.

 

[gotcha]

Just thought I would post my recent experience...I started up my BX2350 at about +20F. It ran fine for about 2 minutes, before starting to studder and eventually dies. Try to restart, and it wants to, but not enough fuel. So I start thinking what could be wrong, never had a problem before. Call my dealer and he says it sounds like the fuel is gelling, first time I have heard of diesel fuel gelling(my first and only diesel). He suggests that I get some 911, add it to the tank and remove the fuel filter and 911 to it.

So I get the Power Service 911(32oz bottle for $7.99). And thought I would also get some fuel treatment since the 911 is only for emergency situations, got the Power Service version also. Since the next day was suppose to be above freezing, I thought I would just add some 911 and the fuel treatment to the tank and wait for tomorrow to come so the sun can warm it up a little. Waited til the afternoon, went out and it started right up. Used it for about 30 minutes to plow, put it away and haven't had a problem since.

I had the exact problem with my B26 the day before yesterday. Not ever having this problem with any of my machines I never thought of fuel gelling. When my son came buy I told him and he said it was fuel gelling. I had Power Service in my tool shed that I had bought when we received the new 26 and put some in the unit and the 2/5 gallon containers. I put a flood light under the hood for about an hour and it started right up and has been running like a champ since.
The Gotcha Man

 

[gotcha]

Check out this .pdf from The Diesel Place web site. I now use Opti-lube. I hope I attached the document correctly.

You did put in properly and it was great reading.
The Gotcha Man

 

[Skyco]

Good read. I see that Power Service is at the bottom of the list. And that 2-stroke oil is better.

How is #10 out of 19 at the bottom
As stated by others it is a lubricity study only, but considering PS gives a cetane improvement, keeps things cleaner, lowers the gel point and does add some lubricity I didn't think it did too bad. Worth considering also is 6 products tested made lubricity worse than plain fuel!