Ballast front tire fluid

[CaptJCHill]

Does any one use liquid ballast on the front wheels of a 4wd? I will not be using the tractor on the road,ony bush hogging,so do not see any high speed rotating mass problem.I do not have a fel on this Kubota M5700 and mow some steep hills and have 5 small 40 lb wts on the rack now and would be able to put about 25 gal (200lbs+) in each, about 600lbs total.The manual says not to load the fronts with liquid,but I think it is only related to high(er) speed travel. Missing anything? Any thoughts?
John

 

[PapaPerk]

If the manual say don't do it... Don't do it.

 

[RaydaKub]

Ditto. Follow the manual.

High speed travel is an oxymoron on a tractor. You aren't going to develop enough RPM's on the wheel to get centrifugal force vibration issues.

But it's your warranty, you do as you like.

 

[CaptJCHill]

Just bought a liquid fill valve from TSC and I think I will try loading them with water.If it works then I saved $800+ on factory weights.If it doesn't,I'm out $8. No warranty,only buy at auction!

John

 

[StanR]

I was told that filling the tires caused too much stress.

Totally different than putting weigh on the front where they are supposed to go.

 

[oldnslo]

Only reason I can see that filling the front tires would bad is that you would trying to lift the weighted tires by the king pin assembly when you have weight on the 3PH Vs having the weight hanging on the frame. Not sure if the king pin assembly is designed to hold / lift that extra weight.

 

[blueride190]

Does any one use liquid ballast on the front wheels of a 4wd? I will not be using the tractor on the road,ony bush hogging,so do not see any high speed rotating mass problem.I do not have a fel on this Kubota M5700 and mow some steep hills and have 5 small 40 lb wts on the rack now and would be able to put about 25 gal (200lbs+) in each, about 600lbs total.The manual says not to load the fronts with liquid,but I think it is only related to high(er) speed travel. Missing anything? Any thoughts?
John

I have a mx4700 4wd and my dealer water filled my tires for me. Unless ur using top gear down an asphalt road you will never have a problem.

 

[moored4]

Ditto. Follow the manual.

High speed travel is an oxymoron on a tractor. You aren't going to develop enough RPM's on the wheel to get centrifugal force vibration issues.

But it's your warranty, you do as you like.

Over time you'll find out why not to load the frount tires! But it's your pocket book, do what you want!

 

[MarkV]

Being in Indiana I would want to use something besides straight water. If the water freezes and the tractor is moved it can really tear up the inside of the tires.

MarkV

 

[GolfAddict]

Only reason I can see that filling the front tires would bad is that you would trying to lift the weighted tires by the king pin assembly when you have weight on the 3PH Vs having the weight hanging on the frame. Not sure if the king pin assembly is designed to hold / lift that extra weight.

I've often heard members say (along with the manuals) not to fill front tires. I've always wondered WHY that is actually not a good idea, and with your post I think it finally makes sense to me. Here's what I'm understanding from you:

Even if not actually lifting the front right off the ground, using implements on the back is still creating "lift" on the front, with the rear axle acting as the fulcrum. The weight of all the tractor parts forward of the rear axle fulcrum, plus any extra weights, etc., keep the front of the tractor down on the ground. As you add weight forward of the fulcrum, you increase the capacity of what you can lift at the rear. Any weight you add that is on the frame is ok, as the frame can take it.

Adding a bunch of weight in the front tires would help in holding the tractor down, but there is now a fair amount of added stress to the parts that hold the wheels, axles, etc., to the tractor. Not downward stress, but upward stress.

Like if you jacked the front end up letting the front tires dangle in the air, the attaching parts only hold up the weight of the air filled tires, hubs, axles, etc. If you filled the front tires with liquid, those same parts have to hold up MUCH more weight. Doing a lot of work with heavy rear implements and filled front tires is putting a lot of constant additional "backwards" stress on the front attaching parts, which are designed more to withstand down pressure (weight of front of tractor, filled loaders, etc.), but not so much for up pressure.

Am I understanding correctly?

 

[big bubba]

asked service tech on this, i agree w/stan not only does it add undue weight to ft end when fel is maxed (steering, etc) @ capacity, but also puts added stress to the 4 wd in general operation.
if it were std procedure why would it not be included in manual or more commonly done? but most machinery is over engineered, so you might get away with.....toss the dice, but i sure wouldn't do it. good luck

 

[ruralruss]

Here is my take on it from the Projects forum.

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Don't have the manual handy. The problem is the shock loading. If you were to fill your tires completely full of fluid you might as well have steel wheels. That is one reason why they should be no more than 75% full. You have to have some air cushion. The front tires have a much smaller volume so there is hardly any air even if only 75% fill. The less air the less safe working range you have against shock loads. With a loader the fronts take lots of abuse even with normal working range. My fronts get 35psi. My rears recommended 24 but that was too much. When I filled them up to 75% I had to lower the pressure to 14 psi just to get full ground contact even with my 400 lb box scrape on. Before I filled them I found a study done by Firestone. They suggested lowering the pressure with loaded tires. My tires are R4 instead of ag tires and that does make a difference. Regardless I suggest no fluid in the front and when you take the loader off you put the suitcase weights on.
*****************************************

 

[blueride190]

Over time you'll find out why not to load the frount tires! But it's your pocket book, do what you want!

Not sure how big ur front tires are but mine are small on mx4700.water is 7lbs a gal. So roughly 21 lbs per side not much at all on a 4 wheel drive front end. Have watched them off the ground using fel. If u have large front tires then yes it may become an issue . I do agree with leaving some air for shock reasons. To each his own...

 

[oldnslo]

I've often heard members say (along with the manuals) not to fill front tires. I've always wondered WHY that is actually not a good idea, and with your post I think it finally makes sense to me. Here's what I'm understanding from you:

Even if not actually lifting the front right off the ground, using implements on the back is still creating "lift" on the front, with the rear axle acting as the fulcrum. The weight of all the tractor parts forward of the rear axle fulcrum, plus any extra weights, etc., keep the front of the tractor down on the ground. As you add weight forward of the fulcrum, you increase the capacity of what you can lift at the rear. Any weight you add that is on the frame is ok, as the frame can take it.

Adding a bunch of weight in the front tires would help in holding the tractor down, but there is now a fair amount of added stress to the parts that hold the wheels, axles, etc., to the tractor. Not downward stress, but upward stress.

Like if you jacked the front end up letting the front tires dangle in the air, the attaching parts only hold up the weight of the air filled tires, hubs, axles, etc. If you filled the front tires with liquid, those same parts have to hold up MUCH more weight. Doing a lot of work with heavy rear implements and filled front tires is putting a lot of constant additional "backwards" stress on the front attaching parts, which are designed more to withstand down pressure (weight of front of tractor, filled loaders, etc.), but not so much for up pressure.

Am I understanding correctly?

Yes, that is what I was attempting to explain.

 

[MHarryE]

What I have read from the tire company sites is that the front's don't add a lot of weight but the liquid reduces the air volume so the spring rate of the tire is significantly reduced. The result is a tire more susceptible to internal damage i.e. cord failure. Power hop is a problem in the larger ag tractors and they recommend keeping the tires as cushiony as possible (no more than 40% liquid in the rears for example) but I haven't heard anyone talk about power hop on CUT's. My tire book says my fronts max out at 97 pound per tire filled while the rears will be 459 pounds. Those numbers are water fill. Two hundred pounds on the front is like a fart in a windstorm compared to a ton in the bucket as the bucket is also far out in front transferring weight from the rears to the fronts. No loader the recommendation is suitcase weights or a weight box up front.

 

[CaptJCHill]

Thanks all for some good insights and ideas.Won't fill the fronts now,instead make a bigger weight box from the front.
Johm