Ford 1710 - Slow and Weak Rear 3pt Lift - Help!

[RMJ22]

Attached are pics of the backside of the plate and the holes on the tractor. One of the telltale signs this is the right plate is that one of the passageways in the plate is sealed off and on the tractorside all three holes are patent. Also, there is no bolt on the right side of the plate.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

If you look on messicks site under 1710 hydraulics 05E01 REMOTE CONTROL VALVE & PIPING KIT W/POSITION CONTROL, 1110, 1210, 1310, 1510, 1710, 1910. The cover for this valve looks like what you have but the valve is missing. I wonder if this tractor had a remote valve and someone took it off.
Bill

 

[RMJ22]

Well, on Messicks there are two #3's. The plain cover is specified for the 1710 offset and the cover with the valve appears to be for my unit, the regular 1710. Seems like somebody swapped it for the wrong part somewhere along the way. . .

 

[JC-jetro]

I reached the same conclusion after digging up in NH site for 1710 offset. I think we still need to see if we can read any pressure at the lift cylinder head while manipulating lift arm and any other hyd control you have on the loader. That might give us some clues.

JC,

 

[RMJ22]

I agree. Just trying to save some pennies and the missing valve seems an obvious must-have. If if doesn't do the trick my next investment will be the hydraulic gauge from Northern Tool!

 

[JFS2295]

That looks exactly like the cover on my non-offset 1710.

I know because I pulled it off when I installed the adapter plate for rear remotes which goes between that cover and the main casting. I see nothing wrong with what you have.

 

[RMJ22]

JFS - Oh no! In that case where is the pressure relief valve? I too am wondering, like you and Hooked_on_HP, if there was a remote valve that has been removed.

The part I'm pursuing is SBA340010651 (refer to Hooked_on_HP
s post previously), which is #3 and can be viewed at the following link:
New Holland 1710 3 CYL COMPACT TRACTOR

And on a side note, the cover/valve assembly (SBA340010651) I'm trying to get is not available, possibly due to the earthquakes in Japan. The dealer is trying to find one but we're not having much luck at all.

If I can't get this part do you think the same thing could be acheived by putting on a remote valve, although I don't need a remote. . .maybe I could install it and caps the ports (or JC-Metro, perhaps you could elaborate for me please on how to go about the spring and shim modification)?

 

[JFS2295]

Your link is broken.

I don't think your tractor ever had a remote installed on it. The cover you have is the same as mine and on another 1710 I know of. What JC showed in his image and pdf is not how these two 1984 tractors were built. The pressure control valve on these two is located to the right of the flow control knob if you are looking to the rear of the tractor.

As Hooked mentioned, your pressure relief valve may be working fine if the FEL works.

While the service manual is not that helpful on this subject, the pressure relief on the side cover that JC shows is what is noted for the 1710 Offset with draft control.

 

[RMJ22]

I see. So we've ruled out the pressure relief valve because the FEL is working properly. And the cover with the pressure relief valve in it I'm seeing on the parts diagram is for a different model (perhaps the offset 1710) because mine has the right cover on it afterall (thanks guys, that just saved me $130).

So what are the possibilities now?

Also, I ordered the hydraulic gauge from Northern Tool today. Soon as it arrives we'll start looking at those numbers!

PS: Even though we ruled out the pressure relief valve, does anybody know where it is on this tractor?

PSS: Is there any sort of hydraulic pressure diverter that I'm overlooking that could be set to shunt power to the FEL for heavier jobs?

 

[JFS2295]

I used the term pressure control valve, while your using pressure relief valve.

After thinking about this more, it may be possible that it is not working OK. Sorry if this is going to be confusing by I don’t have access to my tractor manuals right now – I’m babysitting my mother overnight at her assisted living facility.

I’m going to leave out the power steering circuit out of this for now.

Going by my memory, hydraulic fluid comes out of the hydraulic pump and flows to the diverter valve on the right side of the transmission housing. With the diverter valve set to flow to the FEL, hydraulic fluid goes through the FEL control valve and back to the diverter. It then flows to the 3pt housing where it will either be used to operate the 3pt or dumped into the reservoir.

When you are not using either the FEL or 3pt, the control valves for both are just bypassing fluid to the reservoir without an significant pressure.

There is a pressure relief valve in the diverter valve so if the FEL is being asked to exceeded its designed parameters the fluid will be dumped past the FEL circuit and head to the 3pt housing.

There is a pressure relief valve and flow control valve in the 3pt circuit so if the 3pt is asked to exceed its designed parameters the fluid will be dumped past the 3pt circuit and head to the reservoir.

Now your running the tractor down the field road and everything is fine. The pump is pumping fluid and since neither the FEL nor 3pt is being utilized no significant pressure is being produced.

Now you start to lift with the FEL. The FEL control valve directs fluid to the arm lift cylinders and pressure builds to push those cylinders. As long as the pressure generated does not exceed the limit of the diverters relief valve everything is good. Depending on the load in the FEL, maybe you’re generating 500psi, 1000psi or 2000psi – up to whatever the diverter relief valve is set to.

So your pump can generate whatever fluid pressure is necessary and your FEL circuit is working fine.

Now we get to the 3pt circuit. When you move the control valve to lift rather then duping back to the reservoir it directs fluid to the lift piston but up to the design limit by the pressure relief valve that your mechanic already replaced. As long as the piston seal (also just replaced) is not leaking pressure should build up to the limit set by the pressure relief valve.

So I surmise that either the new seal is leaking, some of the damaged original lift piston seal got into the new pressure relief valve preventing it from closing, or the new pressure relief valve has not been set to the correct operating pressure. And for that you are going to need your newly ordered pressure guage.