For Those Without a BH, How Do you Do It?

[rd_macgregor]

I didn't see anybody mention grapple rake yet. Since I got mine last year, I've become an even bigger fan than I expected. I had mine made with extra spacing tines so any rocks bigger than about 5 or 6 inches wouldn't fall through (but dirt still drops out). I use it mostly for moving brush and logs, but it will grab big rocks, too.
BOB

 

[Gizmo2]

"If your asking the questioin... that means you want one.
You won't rest until you have it, Once you have it, you'll use it all the time."

That's what I love about TBN: Not just idle chatter, but in-depth analysis.

Yep, that sure made me laugh, good one. Still laughing.:laughing:

 

[grsthegreat]

We have 20 acres fully treed, and i maintained this property for 16 years now without a backhoe.

I ran the numbers, and i could not justify the (then price0 $6,000 cost of a backhoe attached to a 28 HP tractor (JD870).

Im an electrical contractor and i even ran the numbers to see if i could use it for work to help pay for it. Did not pen out.

My main problem is the underpower issue and time it takes to dig. I can rent a mini excavator in town, and can haul it with my own flatbed trailer , for $150/day. A mini ex can out dig ANY CT and most full sized backhoes. There amazingly agile and fast diggers.

In 16 years ive only needed to rent it 4 times. I do it when i have a backlog of items needing a backhoe (roots, trenches,etc). I simply wait till i cant wait any longer. And i have 20 acres of maintained trees with a trail system.


And i also wanted a CAB tractor more than i needed a backhoe. A backhoe attachment on a cab tractor is nearly useless, unless its an actual construction grade backhoe that has a reversible seat.

The Kubota dealer here in town says he tries to discourage people with cab units from adding them. For open station there more user friendly. Now if there was a way to operate forward movement and loader control from outside the cab...that would be another issue.
I guess if i had lots of cash i would own my own hoe attachment, but i have to justify all purchases. These arnt toys, there tools.

 

[Gizmo2]

Funny, It seems you never need one until you don't have one.
Bought my 1988 JD 650 new with the BH and used the h*** out of it.
When I went to trade the 650 in for the 2008 JD 2320 the decision to get a BH with the 2320 came up. Lucky for me my wife was involved and gave me a shot in the head and we got the BH. When I want to do something I want to do it now not plan on rentals, availability, delivery times and the like.
Food for thought... bought the 650 with FEL & BH for $14,500, trade in allowance on the 2320 with FEL & BH, $10,500, after 20 years of ownership that's $200.00 per year. I'd buy the BH. Just sayin!

 

[grsthegreat]

i guess i get a little confused with all the stories on how much people use or need backhoe attachments on their compact tractors.

I can hardly find an issue that i cant resolve with the loader alone, except for roots and trenches.

And i hardly ever need to deal with either. I personally HATE running my tractor arround uneven ground hauling a backhoe that rocks the **** out of the tractor all the time. I take it there not too hard to unhook and rehook.??

I can always find a rental excavator when needed myself, as we have 4 rental yards wthin 20 miles of me, and i haul with my own trailer. When i need one for a job, id rather haul it a few miles to the job then haul my own on a 40 mile roundtrip. The rental yards here are always updating their equipment every other year, so the rental fleet is in very nice shape. Ive never had a unit fail me on the job.

I include the cost of rental to a job bid, so the money factor isnt an issue. I dont have to maintain the how, bucket, digging teeth, hoses, etc. Heck, i dont even have to grease it unless i need it for more than 1 day.

I cant use the thing to move my large rocks, cause these rocks more than outweigh even my new DK45.....there huge. Ive had to get a huge excavator in here to move and place them.

The thumb is nice, but i cant move trees with them cause my trails are too narrow. I guess holding up trees while i cut them with a chainsaw would be nice, but i can cut them on the ground 1/2 through and roll them for the other 1/2 easy enuf.

oh well, some people may get alot better use of a BH than i could ever get. all the power to them. Now a TRACTOR, that i cannot live without.

 

[crash325]

Write the Check and get the back hoe. Give your check book 2 aspirin to ease its pain. :thumbsup: You will find the BH the most useful attachment that you own. Mine is only taken off when the post hole digger is installed.

With a little though you will find so many uses for the BH, you may surprise yourself. :thumbsup:

 

[KU Gator]

I have one of these. It is pretty effective on rocks. Not so much help on scrub trees. It is very heavy built.

Paumco Products Quick Spade Combo — Model# 1101-Quick Spade | Skid-Steers + Attachments | Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[Mock1]

I have a GC2610 TLB. Do I need it, maybe, maybe not.. I've used it for various tasks around our property. When I asked my sons if they would like to dig a hole at the Beach without a bucket and shovel, they were ear to ear grins. We dug holes and filled them back in. I have five other implements which I use right now, everyone has it's strong point, and weak point. If I was contracting, different story, time is money. I do these things after I work, and I guess I'm fortunate enough to afford them. Life is full of choices, make your own.

 

[dangerdoc]

Such tasks as boulder/stone removal, stump removing, etc.? I currently have a Kubota B20 and am looking to upgrade however a 40hp+ tractor with a BH is expensive so I was wondering whether I could survive without one. I do have a lot of stones on my property and I have a number of stumps I need to remove (4"-10" trees - elm, ash, birch). I am currently looking at a Kubota MX4700 or a Kioti DK45SE and would purchase a BB.

Other than renting a mini-ex, any other tips if I am sans BH?

Tks.

I used to have a commercial BH. Great for building my road, I dug out a number of rocks and it worked great. I dug out a couple of stumps and frankly, I didn't really dig it, pardon the pun. It was much easier to pay for a day of track loader time and get all my stumps out at one time and piled up to burn.

I sold the BH after I built my house. I have a grapple and 4n1 loader for my tractor. Great for moving rocks. The grapple easily digs into the ground and pops rocks, I haven't tried stumps. But with stumps, I usually just cut them flush with the ground and never think about them again.

 

[Kyle241]

I have one of these. It is pretty effective on rocks. Not so much help on scrub trees. It is very heavy built.

Paumco Products Quick Spade Combo Model# 1101-Quick Spade | Skid-Steers + Attachments | Northern Tool + Equipment

Very interesting attachment. I can see where it would work well for some of the tasks I have. Other tasks that I need more precise work, e.g. digging for conduit to garage, a BH would be a better option however much more expensive. Tks. for the link, I will think about this option.

I used to have a commercial BH. Great for building my road, I dug out a number of rocks and it worked great. I dug out a couple of stumps and frankly, I didn't really dig it, pardon the pun. It was much easier to pay for a day of track loader time and get all my stumps out at one time and piled up to burn.

I sold the BH after I built my house. I have a grapple and 4n1 loader for my tractor. Great for moving rocks. The grapple easily digs into the ground and pops rocks, I haven't tried stumps. But with stumps, I usually just cut them flush with the ground and never think about them again.

Have not thought of a grapple but have seen their use. This could be another good solution, just need to price them out and see what it is. Tks.

 

[Ford tractor]

The price of a small tack on back hoe on a small tractor is very near or even the same as buying a used construction TLB. Right now you can get a good condition 9-12,000 pound machines for less than dollar a pound. "good" isn't new, but fully functional with 50% life left in pins, bushings and tires. That money will get you a 1 yard FEL bucket able to pick up 3-5000 pounds and a 24" BH bucket able to pick up 3000# to full height and dig 12-15ft.

Machines from the late '70's thru early 90's like Deere 310's and 410's in that shape with 4000 hours can be found for 8k. Older machines are cheaper, but may need more love. Newer and lower hour is more.

To top it all off, you can sell the machine for what you bought if for later! It is VERY wise to hire a heavy equipment tech to give your top 2-3 machine choices a close eyeballing. That will be the smartest money ever spent.

Many don't agree, but I sure think it's a better deal to get a whole tractor loader hoe with 3-5x the capability for the same price that has already been depreciated. Just my $11.48 (two cents adjusted for inflation)

 

[slowzuki]

I leave stumps cut off flush for a few years so they just fall apart or I get an excavator in. I'd love to have a midi-ex to put tile in on our property and clean up a bunch of excavation material dumped here though! Maybe in 15 years.

I won't buy an old backhoe right now as I've got too much equipment needing repairs already.

 

[Reg]

I keep getting updates to this thread and still come back to the stump bucket as the lowest price best bang for the buck partial (80 20 maybe ?) solution for what the O/P said he wanted to do.

80% of the capability for 20% of the price ?
No, more like 90 20 (-:
Anyway, I still don't have a stump bucket, partly because every time I price them I think I would rather have a stump grapple, then I remember that I have hoes anyway, but never one on the right tractor; like, NOW when I need it.
So I think I'm going for a stump grapple anyway.

BTW, for laying cable there is always the sub soiler, as long as you don't have to go more than about 20 inches deep or so.
Agri Supply has the backwards bent pipe thing for feeding the cable down and through.

 

[Kyle241]

I keep getting updates to this thread and still come back to the stump bucket as the lowest price best bang for the buck partial (80 20 maybe ?) solution for what the O/P said he wanted to do.

80% of the capability for 20% of the price ?
No, more like 90 20 (-:
Anyway, I still don't have a stump bucket, partly because every time I price them I think I would rather have a stump grapple, then I remember that I have hoes anyway, but never one on the right tractor; like, NOW when I need it.
So I think I'm going for a stump grapple anyway.

BTW, for laying cable there is always the sub soiler, as long as you don't have to go more than about 20 inches deep or so.
Agri Supply has the backwards bent pipe thing for feeding the cable down and through.

Reg, I'm not familiar with a stump bucket nor a stump grapple. I was just browsing these implements this morning as I really like what I see with the grapples even though they are not cheap. I'll take another look at a stump bucket and/or stump grapple.

Tks.

 

[IslandTractor]

With a strong loader and heavy tractor it is possible to do a good deal of what a BH does but not nearly as efficiently. I have a Kioti DK40se with both a BH and some FEL attachments like a grapple, real forks, a tree boom, 4n1 and the Quickspade in addition to the standard bucket so I have tried various tasks with different implements.

For digging trenches up to 42 inches or so the quick spade will work but it is very slow compared to the BH mostly because you need to constantly move the tractor to dump spoils. The quickspade does work well though and I've even used it to undermine some monster stumps that even the BH was having trouble with. I have the quickspade mounted on beefy skidsteer forks and that is much more flexible than just the bucket mount version.

I don't own a stump bucket (yet) but if I did not own a BH I'd have one for sure. Being able to concentrate force as well as minimize disruption of soil is a big advantage over the standard bucket. In fact, I rarely have my standard bucket mounted for anything. The grapple versions are quite expensive and limited to stump removal. I'd just budget a bit more and get separate stump bucket ($350-500) and light duty grapple ($1000) as a much more flexible combo. Easy enough to chain a stump or bush once you've dug it out with a stump bucket so unless you are digging out lots of stumps (in which case the BH really makes more sense) then the stump bucket seems a very useful partner to a strong FEL.

For taking down trees, I have almost stopped using a chainsaw at all and use my BH with a ripper blade. I've posted a bunch on this last fall. One thing that occurred to me while using the ripper/BH is that it would not be hard to rig a ripper blade for the FEL that could cut tree roots just like the BH ripper does. That allows you to push over the tree (again with a reasonably heavy tractor like the Kioti) and the benefit is that there is virtually no hole to fill after the stump pops out by itself. I haven't used a ripper/FEL nor have I seen that anyone has done it but with a strong loader and heavy 4wd tractor it should work. I have a QA attachment plate that has a 2x2 hitch mount and it would not take more than a few hours of cutting, grinding and welding to produce a ripper claw to fit the hitch mount. My BH ripper is about 24 inches deep but a shorter one would work too. I don't know whether it would be better to rip up by plunge and curl or rip back by plunge and reverse drive but with a hitch mounted ripper you could reverse it easily to see which was most efficient. The ripper also works very well to prepare shrubs for transplant or removal.

I will mention just quickly that a grapple can also accomplish some of the tasks associated with a BH. A narrow 48 inch grapple can dig under moderate size stump roots. It is not as fast or efficient as the BH but I removed quite a number of stumps with the grapple when I did not have my BH mounted. Easy to pop out rotten stumps and usually any stump less than about 8 inches across was removable with 15 minutes work. Make sure to have something heavy like a BB or mower as rear ballast as otherwise you'll just be lifting the rear of the tractor. A grapple is also very good at getting out rocks.

I'll finish by saying that I have never regretted getting the BH (Woods BH90x) but if I didn't have it, I could do most of the tasks with a combination of FEL implements and a strong loader. The Kioti loader lifts 2700lbs and you'd want something like that to do the BH replacing work.

 

[Reg]

Another thing worth thinking about when it comes to stumps is what the plan is for the land use, say 5, 10 years in the future.
If crop land maybe grinding to 10 inches or so below the surface will do very nicely.
Any subsidence from rotting of the remains will just develop as shallow depressions and may not even notice as tilling re-levels the soil.

Obviously if you will or may BUILD there the stumps have to go.

I've seen some stumps that totally CONSUMED the minds of TLB owners.
Craters around them that just got out of control, driving around below grade chasing FAT roots to their ends (-:
Then what ?, it can't be lifted out and getting the whole tractor in the hole to push it out from underneath ???
Nahh, probably wouldn't work and could come back on Ya before you got all the way out.
Dig an even bigger hole to shove it into ?

I was on the Wildcat site this morning, those stump buckets look SO good (-:
This link might work;
http://cgi.ebay.com/STUMP-BUCKET-W-...331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6311cdbb

 

[dangerdoc]

I've a small BH/B7610 combo. My eventual purpose, if I ever get retired and moved, was to use it to learn and also build narrow trails on my land. I've about 300+ acres in Ms of timberland, and 75 in Vt.
But until then I play with it on my little suburban lot in Va. I've attempted to dig out 4 stumps in Va. The first one I documented here
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/147380-my-first-stump.html

The next two were relatively small 8" pines, came out like greased lightning.

The last was a 30" plus maple with main lateral roots up to 12", I dug a 4' deep hole around it and it had big roots going down deep into heavy clay. It won.

Then to make matters worse, after I filled it in, thought I packed it down, and left it to sit for 2 months it bit me again. As I went to level the area around it I started sinking in, when I went to get out the front tire was about hub deep and came up against one of the 12" roots and I almost buried the little tractor. Now if I had had the BH on I could of lifted my self out maybe

The only thing better than having a tractor, is having two tractors!

I used to have a Case 680E that I used to pull my tractors out when I got stuck. When I got the Case stuck, I had my wife pulling with the tractor While I pulled with the back hoe and thought I was going to have to call a friend with a track loader before I finally climbed out. At the time, I was glad nobody took a picture.

 

[DrewL]

There is no substitute for a BH

 

[ctgoldwing]

There have been a lot of good posts on this subject in this thread. I agree with a lot of what has already been said. I have a bh on my L3400 - it doesn't make it an excavator tho

The good news is I don't take out too many stumps but I do use the bh to do it. As mentioned you have to dig around the tree to find the roots so you can rip / break them. The biggest stump I ever removed was about 30" and it was a miniproject - took well over an hour of digging & ripping until there was only one untouched side. Then I was able to grab the stump & pull it over towards the remaining roots. It eventually just tore out.

Fortunately I have plently of room to bury them - no burning allowed around here.

 

[grsthegreat]

There have been a lot of good posts on this subject in this thread. I agree with a lot of what has already been said. I have a bh on my L3400 - it doesn't make it an excavator tho

The good news is I don't take out too many stumps but I do use the bh to do it. As mentioned you have to dig around the tree to find the roots so you can rip / break them. The biggest stump I ever removed was about 30" and it was a miniproject - took well over an hour of digging & ripping until there was only one untouched side. Then I was able to grab the stump & pull it over towards the remaining roots. It eventually just tore out.

Fortunately I have plently of room to bury them - no burning allowed around here.

i live in 20 acres of trees, and one thing that i have discovered over the 16 years we've owned this place.

If you dig up a root, and disturb alot of the soil, you generally kill the trees next to the root. I have noticed that many times, a few years after i remove the offending root, that there are 3-5 more dead trees surrounding the root i removed.

This was explained to me as the root balls intermingle and share nutrients. once you disturb them, you can allow disease, fungus, etc into the soils and roots, killing other trees. doesn't always happen, but Ive tended to leave the tree roots alone unless i HAVE to have access thru that particular spot.