FIXABILITY

[rScotty]

Last night I was looking at an old thread where vintage tractors were being compared to modern ones. And just before "thread drift" derailed the discussion, it seemed aimed toward just what had gotten better and maybe what had been overlooked.

Someone said that one of the qualities that made things popular 50 years ago in tractors was "fixability". That made sense to me....it does seem that those old tractors were deliberately designed to be easily fixible by the owner, and that owners expected parts to be available. This wasn't limited to tractors, it was a common design feature for just about everything mechanical - and the reward for really getting it right was a machine that was both reliable and easily fixable. The best of those achieved collectible and cult status. Today those are not only still in use, but have often gone up in value. All of us could probably list a few...

So I got to wondering....
Are there any tractors - or any kind of machinery - that is being designed today to be both reliable AND fixable?

Or is that era over? Will there will ever be the same interest again in making things fixable?

rScotty

 

[Thomas]

Todays tractors have to much computer parts.

 

[Diggin It]

So I got to wondering....
Are there any tractors - or any kind of machinery - that is being designed today to be both reliable AND fixable?

Or is that era over? Will there will ever be the same interest again in making things fixable?

Over and out.


Remember when you fix your own car? Or television?


User fixers do nothing for the corporate bottom line. They want you to buy new. There's a thread here somewhere that claims Deere is changing the ability of users to even be able to repair their own machines in that they want to require dealer involvement. I'm not sure how that will work, or if it's even legal.

 

[js5020]

Short of proprietary software everything is fixable one just needs to up their game to meet current technology. Reliable,, whole different issue requiring to many keystrokes.

 

[prichard]

Depends on the size. If no additional tier 4 gear like regen, small tractors tend to have no computers.

 

[atsah]

I have done extensive trouble shooting and repair work on a couple of three year old under 25hp tractors as of late, considering I didn't know much about diesels last spring, there wasn't much to it as I look back but the units with all EPA stuff and electronics is a different story..

 

[LouNY]

A lot has changed over the years,
including our expectations of what the tractor should be able to do and the ease of operation;
TractorData.com Allis Chalmers WD tractor information
TractorData.com Farmall 56 tractor information
Here are the specs for an Allis Chalmers WD and a Farmall 560,
and then the specs for a Kubota that's kind of between those two.
TractorData.com Kubota L471 tractor information

I'm not a Kubota fan so there could certainly be others to choose from.
But when you look at repairability it unfortunately seems to follow with versatility and ease of use.
Products of today are not built to last generations and they are much more compact and in many cases much more versatile and user friendly,
The two older models I picked are two that I grew up on, our WD has been parked for close to 20 years, the 560 is still used.
And safety there is no comparison, the WD usually would not start with the electric starter I believe it was started with the crank 10 times more then the electric starter,
to use the crank you stood in front of the tractor, reached down and back to the carb and set the choke, brought it up towards a compression cycle, and with an open palm gave it a good shove down for a half turn, with luck in a couple of tries she would start. And of course if you couldn't start from the seat, why worry about shutting it down from there, get off it walk around to the side of the engine and reach up and push the grounding strap closed on the magneto.

But when you start comparing them;
the power steering,
the brakes,
the hydraulics,
the rear lift arms, not sure if that was an improvement sometimes
the ease of mounting and dismounting, climbing up from the rear and slick steel pieces with muddy or manure covered boots, a slip waiting to happen
the constant tinkering with points and carbs
the weak brakes
but they where simpler and easier to work on, and more durable.

 

[atsah]

Growing up on farm we had several old tractors, an International 350 utility, a JD 2010, JD 2020, a JD 4020 and Ford 7710. All very durable tractors, we fixed what ever needed to be fixed ourselves, safety was not much of a concern to us back then,, my dad would tell us, don't do this or this will happen and that was that.. My brother still uses those tractors today, they all run great. I'm pretty confident when my four year old tractor is 50 years old it will be in the scrap yard..

 

[Tractorable]

After encountering a problem with my 1952 8N that took six months for me and my mechanic neighbor to fix I’m now of the opinion that “fixability” is overrated.

Maybe I’m getting jaded, but give me a modern diesel tractor any day over fiddling with carbs and points and leaks. I just want to push a button and go. Modern tractors give me that, for a couple decades at least, before needing major repairs.

 

[RSR]

Short of proprietary software everything is fixable one just needs to up their game to meet current technology. Reliable,, whole different issue requiring to many keystrokes.

^^THIS^^

As technology advances, for the most part, things don't become any less fixable (excluding planned obsolescence), it just requires a more advanced skillset to do so. This is the price of progress.

 

[finn1]

A Model T Ford was the epitome of simplicity and repair ability.

Not many are willing to give up the comfort, performance, and ease of driving a modern car to go back.

Tractors are pretty much the same story.

I don’t want to give up clean air to breathe the exhaust of an obsolete tractor.

 

[rScotty]

A Model T Ford was the epitome of simplicity and repair ability.

Not many are willing to give up the comfort, performance, and ease of driving a modern car to go back.

Tractors are pretty much the same story.

I don’t want to give up clean air to breathe the exhaust of an obsolete tractor.

I don't want to give up the comfort and performance either. But I don't see any reason why had to give fixability and easy maintenance in order to have those things. There isn't any engineering reason why all the modern features on a modern tractor can't be as owner-friendly as the older ones were.

I'm not sure how we got to where even routine upkeep requires such specialized effort. My guess is that it was a manufacturing choice. It's just that I'm thinking we are giving up something valuable that we really don't have to lose. That goes for cars, tractors, appliances...and lots of things. I'd like to see manufacturing change directions. Where's the downside?
rScotty

 

[mred2]

A lot of the fixability was lost due to the new electronics. Some was by choice and some was mandated by the EPA. A lot of things on a tractor can still be fixed by a lot of people. Rebuild cylinders, replace belts, and most maintenance. But most do not have the ability to connect a computer, the software for the computer, and the knowledge to fix it. And at the same time, a lot do not have the tools, a good shop or the energy to work on it. A lot of things that I would have fixed myself years ago, I now call someone. I got a new tractor so I don't have to fix it every time I want to use it.

 

[LouNY]

I don't want to give up the comfort and performance either. But I don't see any reason why had to give fixability and easy maintenance in order to have those things. There isn't any engineering reason why all the modern features on a modern tractor can't be as owner-friendly as the older ones were.

I'm not sure how we got to where even routine upkeep requires such specialized effort. My guess is that it was a manufacturing choice. It's just that I'm thinking we are giving up something valuable that we really don't have to lose. That goes for cars, tractors, appliances...and lots of things. I'd like to see manufacturing change directions. Where's the downside?
rScotty

Certainly can't disagree with that. The problem is that it would cost more up front to have repairability built into anything tractors, trucks, cars, kitchen appliances.
I would prefer it myself, no reason that access has to be so limited on so much. Why aren't the cabs designed to tilt out of the way instead of having to be disconnected and removed. Why does a truck have to have the body removed to work on an engine. Why does a refrigerator have a condenser that can't be reached to clean. These where all done by the manufactures and accepted by the consumer and their wallet not some damned government mandate.

 

[/pine]

Not necessarily about topical machines etc...but a lot of modern electronics are fairly easy to fix...
Especially flat panel TVs...there is not much in the way of main boards anymore...everything is modular with individual PCB modules...i.e., tuner mod., power supply mod., graphics mod., etc., etc...

just replace whatever module fails...obviously it cost more to replace an entire module than an individual component but more and more these days is becoming plug and play...

 

[mred2]

And some were done to make them cheaper to build. As a refrigerator is built to last so long and never be repaired. Its cheaper to buy a new one. I can't reach the back of the engine in my truck. I can no long stand on my head and my arms are too short. Most people would not want to break a tractor in half to fix the clutch (some still can). And I feel part of the reason that a tractor can hold it's value is due to the ability to still find parts and fix the old stuff. The old days are going quick. In today's world the first tool of a tech for large equipment is his laptop computer.

 

[bigcut]

Last night I was looking at an old thread where vintage tractors were being compared to modern ones. And just before "thread drift" derailed the discussion, it seemed aimed toward just what had gotten better and maybe what had been overlooked.

Someone said that one of the qualities that made things popular 50 years ago in tractors was "fixability". That made sense to me....it does seem that those old tractors were deliberately designed to be easily fixible by the owner, and that owners expected parts to be available. This wasn't limited to tractors, it was a common design feature for just about everything mechanical - and the reward for really getting it right was a machine that was both reliable and easily fixable. The best of those achieved collectible and cult status. Today those are not only still in use, but have often gone up in value. All of us could probably list a few...

So I got to wondering....
Are there any tractors - or any kind of machinery - that is being designed today to be both reliable AND fixable?

Or is that era over? Will there will ever be the same interest again in making things fixable?

rScotty

rScotty,
The greater the features the greater the complexity for fixability. This is true for tractors, cars, and many other products. We can't have it both ways.

The Branson tractors are mechanical and do NOT use a computer. Emissions are dealt with thru the DPF and do not use the rail with regen requirements. That's probably about as close as you can get today to simplicity/fixability, not to say it's simple.

I'll et the Branson owners correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.
John

 

[Lowcountry Rebel]

I recently bought a 2014 TYM603 geared tractor with 400 hrs- everything I have looked at seems to be "fixable", at least as fixable as a late 1980's pick up - but not as "fixable" and "workable" as a mid 70's F100 with a 300 ci inline 6 cylinder.

 

[coobie]

IMHO the days of working on our tractors,cars,and trucks will be VERY limited verses say 1960,s threw 1980,s made stuff.

 

[Agvg]

Not a big problem to repair a newer tractor, much of the basic design is quite the same.