Firewood processor project.

[Millet]

Hi, I intend to build a firewood processor. And I have a question... well I have many but one for now.

My processor will be working with the pto of my 80 hp tractor. I will put 2 pto pumps on the same shaft.
This kind of pump have a hole for the shaft that go through the pump.

and I will probably use a control flow valve. like this for example:

4/3 GPM Prince Priority Flow Divider w/Relief | Divider Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

To divide the flow. If I understand correctly, this kind of valve divide the flow in two: E.F Excess Flow and CF Control Flow.
My CF will go to the split wood conveyer . and the EF to another actuator, like the hydraulic saw for example.

My question, about this kind of valve is, do you know if the pressure change to the EF flow will increase or decrease the flow to the CF, or
if the CF flow can, under pressure, fluctuate. example the conveyer is free of wood, It receive 4 GPM and now it's full of wood and building
pressure and receive only 2-3 gpm?

Thank you

My english is not my first tongue.

 

[polemidis]

With this valve variation in pressure does not affect the flow neither in CF nor the EF.

I do not get why you want to install 2 (very expensive) pto pumps. You have more hp than enough to divide the flow to as many circuits as you want. But do you need more than 2 parallel circuits that operate at the same time??

 

[Millet]

Hi Polemidis

The reason that I want two pto pumps is that I see somewhere that is not ideal to divide flow too many time. I will have many circuits to feed many
cylinder and motors. But I am in the plan stage so all option is open. I guess at this "theoric" stage I try to make the "perfect" processor, but I
know that I will have to do some concessions. The modele that i like and inspire me is this one:

Tajfun Rca 4�� Joy The fastest & furious - YouTube

I don't think that mine will be equipped with solenoid operated valve. but what I like about this one is that is not so big yet very effective,
the tractor is the power source, and the color...

I have another wondering today ( I guess you know what I mean because you have build one, every day a new question rose...)
about the splitting wedge, I wonder if instead of the blades coming in contact in the log at the same time if it will be better
if the splitting blade had an angle toward the center or the edge. I hope you can understand what I mean...

The reason of this, is that if the log came in the contact of the surface of "all" the blade of the splitting wedge, the cylinder need a lot of
strength, if the blade have an angle the cylinder don't need much strength and maybe go faster.

I don't know if it is practical but i thing the theory is good.


Also Polemidis I think that you have made some research about valves and manifold. Do you know something about the one that we see in the video below, at 2min 52 sec?


Combine Bois TAJFUN RCA 48 avec porteur CEMET - YouTube

 

[polemidis]

Yes, I have spent a few hundreds ogf hours on research.
So, about the splitter, yes of course in a 4-way or 6-way, you will need more power if the blades are in the same plane.

It looks like a solenoid valve but I cannot tell more. I am not using any on mine.

My suggestion is before anything else, to define your needs and goals in a written statement, or else you will always loose your track, especially because you sound new to that stuff. For example, what is the input on that machine? Full length logs? 16ft long logs?, Loaded by winch? By other machinery? How many cords per hours do you need? And how many cords per year?. Obviously you do have the power source. Lote that down. It will help you later in make the design.
I was a completely newbie, and it took me a while to get the concept of hydraulics, and I am still not completely there... Hydraulics have laws that we do not observe in our everyday lives, and its easy to make costly mistakes

 

[Ivan49]

Hi Polemidis

The reason that I want two pto pumps is that I see somewhere that is not ideal to divide flow too many time. I will have many circuits to feed many
cylinder and motors. But I am in the plan stage so all option is open. I guess at this "theoric" stage I try to make the "perfect" processor, but I
know that I will have to do some concessions. The modele that i like and inspire me is this one:

Tajfun Rca 4�� Joy The fastest & furious - YouTube

I don't think that mine will be equipped with solenoid operated valve. but what I like about this one is that is not so big yet very effective,
the tractor is the power source, and the color...

I have another wondering today ( I guess you know what I mean because you have build one, every day a new question rose...)
about the splitting wedge, I wonder if instead of the blades coming in contact in the log at the same time if it will be better
if the splitting blade had an angle toward the center or the edge. I hope you can understand what I mean...

The reason of this, is that if the log came in the contact of the surface of "all" the blade of the splitting wedge, the cylinder need a lot of
strength, if the blade have an angle the cylinder don't need much strength and maybe go faster.

I don't know if it is practical but i thing the theory is good.


Also Polemidis I think that you have made some research about valves and manifold. Do you know something about the one that we see in the video below, at 2min 52 sec?


Combine Bois TAJFUN RCA 48� avec porteur CEMET - YouTube

What kind of wood do you have that you are going to be processing. Those vids they are using pine and you can really go to town with pine but put some hard knotty oak up on it and see what happens. I had mine hooked up to my 60 hp skidsteer and I could cut about one full cord an hourof hard maple 4x4x8=cord. I have now added an 18 hp motor and run it on its own with a 16/4 2stage pump and this slowed iit down a lot. I just used it to cut my own wood supply

 

[Millet]

I have mainly maple, beech and ash.
I have an excavator to load it on the "logs magazine", in my plan is to cut them in +/- 12 foot. and load 10 of them on the "log magazine" with each load.

It's for my use but I want to sell some firewood too.

I have now a hydraulic simulator, so this will help me to make some decisions.

What kind of splitting force you have. and do you wish to have more?

The thing that puzzled me is, of the many processor model that use pto power input not one use pto pump, rather they use gear box and "traditional
pump" This worry me about my first choice...

This is a pdf that I find useful for diy firewood processor: It's in english after 2or 3 pages:

https://digi.lib.ttu.ee/i/file.php?DLID=7465&t=1

I will not make the same kind of processor that he make but still interesting

 

[Millet]

I see many processor using .404 pitch chain saw but some use .325 pitch. what is better?

 

[polemidis]

.404
needs more power (you have plenty)
cuts slightly wider kerf
is stronger
faster sharpening )has less teeth for the same length compared to the 3/8

actually is the only way to go, since there are not chain bars for 3/8", wide enough to accept a 15-17 teeth sprocket

 

[Ivan49]

The problem you run into with a 3/8 chain is the bar vibrates. If I rework my saw I am going to use a 404 chain.

 

[Millet]

Do you know what kind of motor your chain saw have, is it a piston motor? Do you think an automatic chain tensioner is essential?

 

[texasranger556]

The thing that puzzled me is, of the many processor model that use pto power input not one use pto pump, rather they use gear box and "traditional
pump" This worry me about my first choice...

What do you mean by a PTO pump? The ones I've seen are just a normal gear pump with a gear train attached to increase the pump RPMs, in a convenient package that mounts directly on your tractor's PTO shaft.

 

[Millet]

A PTO pump like this one for example:
7.62 cu in 16.6 GPM 54 RPM Dynamic GP-PTO-A-7-6-S Hydraulic PTO Pump | Dynamic | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

Instead of increasing the rpm with a gear box It's working directly on the pto tractor at 540 rpm.

 

[Ivan49]

You do know you have to run your tractor wide open to get what you need with that pump

 

[Ivan49]

I used a large hyd saw that I bought. But when and if I change I it will have a different setup on it. I have the motor written down that is needed for the saw

 

[texasranger556]

Gotcha. My guess is 43 lbs with 3/4" hydraulic hoses isn't the easiest thing to hang on a tractor PTO shaft.

A PTO pump like this one for example:
7.62 cu in 16.6 GPM 54 RPM Dynamic GP-PTO-A-7-6-S Hydraulic PTO Pump | Dynamic | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

Instead of increasing the rpm with a gear box It's working directly on the pto tractor at 540 rpm.

 

[Millet]

You do know you have to run your tractor wide open to get what you need with that pump


what do you mean ?

 

[aczlan]

You do know you have to run your tractor wide open to get what you need with that pump


what do you mean ?

To get 16GPM out of that pump, you will have the engine spinning at the right speed to get 540RPM at the PTO (which is normally near full throttle).

Aaron Z

 

[Millet]

Ok.
According to the tractor manual to have 540 rpm to the PTO the motor have to be at 1944 rpm. the max rpm is 2200, torque max at 1400 rpm.

 

[Ivan49]

Ok.
According to the tractor manual to have 540 rpm to the PTO the motor have to be at 1944 rpm. the max rpm is 2200, torque max at 1400 rpm.

That is with a no load on the PTO you hook a pump or anything p to your PTO you will have to run engine RPM's higher for the load. I am guessing that to get anything you want using that pump your RPM's will have to be at least 2000 or more for the pump to perform as it was intended

 

[Millet]

I undestand.
But is there a difference between a pto pump that is mounted directly on the PTO of the tractor and that run at lower rpm .
and a normal pump that run at high speed with a gear box ? Does one is more energy effective?

Example(the number is close to reality):

1= tractor engine2000 rpm- pto 540rpm- hydraulic PTO pump (Displacement 3.6 Cubic inch) = 7 gpm




2=tractor engine 2000 rpm -pto 540 rpm- PTO gear box 540 to 2000 RPM- Hydraulic pump (displacement 0.86 cu) = 7gpm



If the PTO pump (lower rpm/big displacement) is energy effective like a smaller pump( faster rpm/smaller displacement) I will choose a PTO pump.