Tractor Sizing Finding the right fit?

[pipetrencher]

This is my 1st post. So, hi all.

As my "greeting" message indicated, I never would have thought that I would ever say "I need a tractor", but a few months after trying to settle into a rural property.......... well............ "I need a tractor". And looking forward too .. (pretty long post, sorry!)

From what I have read, whether a Kubota, JD, MF, Mahindra, Kioti etc.... I don't think it really matters, or at least they all seem to have very similar models to one another. What I do think matters, is matching the tractor capability & possible dealer support to your needs and beyond. But of course most of us don't have money trees in the backyard, which may, in the end, hinder the optimal preference.

So, in the hopes that the above paragraph that makes sense? below are my terrain & storage details, tractor needs, budget preferences and buying opinions & final thoughts.

Terrain details & storage

• 5.5 acres which consists of mostly grass. The land is relatively flat in the front other than the drainage ditch by the road which is a bit steep, dips and dives a bit in the back yard, But nothing severe. The ground seems pretty stable soil, normal grass
• Driveway is in front which again is mainly flat(ish) but does dip down about 6'-7' over 50'-60' at road
• Will store unit inside drive shed. Drive shed is connected to (soon to be) heated shop.

Tractor needs (Immediate)

• Dig several trenches totaling 400-500' long, by 2' deep, and about 1' wide
• Dig up a 1300 sq/ft driveway about 8" deep (Currently thin cover of stone, soft underneath, I can dump dirt down hill on property, so do not need to load into truck)
• Move whatever tons of stone needed and grade driveway
• Possibly move recycled asphalt into place to be rolled (New Hot asphalt drive.... $$ no way) But I may stick with just stone?
• No grass cutting as I already purchase 2 used 42" & 46" craftsman ride-on's
• Dig down about 5' at front of raised bungalow to address water seepage in a cold cellar
• Once a year move 7-8 Bush cord about 75' from open area to sheltered dome
• Clear new driveway of snow (keeping in mind the finished result will be either 5/8 limestone or cold rolled recycled asphalt which from what I have been told is relatively stable but delicate)

Budget preferences & buying options

• I would like not to spend more than 15k all in. Total
• I have good credit so I would can put down 8-10k and finance the rest./ I would much rather buy outright though. If I have a <10k option?
• If private sale I could save the HST? Cheaper than dealer. But would a good dealer ensure I get a good unit? or do they "really care"? IMHO, I doubt they do!
• I'm pretty sure I can do most of the regular maintenance myself. I may even be able to change a part or two.

Final thoughts

• I was thinking of a compact? certainly not a sub compact? I say this because I have read about the backhoe limitations of subcompact tractors? Especially when one doesn't know what the future holds? What are your thoughts?
• I was thinking used (Obviously, based on my budget)? But I am anything but a tractor expert
• Is dealer support important?
• Should I heat drive shed? Will be quite simple to do so. I will be heating everything with a Outdoor wood furnace (hence, the trenching)
• Do not want chains on tractor for pushing snow. Is included loader on 4x4 TLB good enough?
• Do I need shoes on the loader to push snow? So I can keep stones "on" the driveway? or not to rip up cold rolled recycled asphalt?
• How many hours per use, per year would indicate normal usage? I don't think I would want to buy a used tractor from a contractor who pushed it everyday.
• How old is too old 19XX?
• How many hours is too many hours?
• Any signs to look for when looking at a used tractor?

If you made it this far? Thanks!!

 

[chim]

Welcome aboard! I'll start. Unless you will be trenching a whole lot, hire it out. I did a project several years ago and my operator had 1,200' of trench open in less than a full day for our site lighting. The "B" part of a TLB is not a necessity for most of us (and this opinion is from someone who is prone to tool up a bit on the overkill side).

5.5 acres of grass and a couple riding mowers? "Somethin' tells me you ain't done no mowin' there jest yet"

Where do you live? Don't need GPS coordinates, but opinions on what equipment is needed for clearing snow would vary greatly and there's a good chance someone posting here lives near you.

 

[pipetrencher]

at Chim, Thanks I appreciate the input.

I don't know what I'll be doing in a year or 10, but I already got quoted 4.5k based on ....
- Dig several trenches totaling 400-500' long, by 2' deep, and about 1' wide
- Dig down about 5' at front of raised bungalow to address water seepage in a cold cellar (total length i want to check is 20' or so)

The operator said that he has to take into account if he runs into rough terrain, boulders etc...

Above is all "B" work that I need done this summer. I'm pretty sure that does not even include back-fill.
What about if my wife wants a pond? have to plant/move trees? etc... Wouldn't that pretty much pay for the cost of having the "B". Ya I know "I" have to do the labour, but I would actually like it and I would then have a great piece of machinery at my disposal. (Just a thought)

BTW, I do understand it's going to be a learning curve to be able to operate the "B" properly and smoothly.


Mowin' ......yud b right ... What am I missing here? My neighbor has 4 acres and he cuts the front and his wife cuts the back. What should I be using?


30 minutes North of Belleville Ontario, same neighbour has a beat up pick up to plow. Does the job. I've seen others around with ATV/plow. I'm guessing it works for them? So I figured a loader on a compact would do just fine?

I appreciate your input and experience, but I just wanted to be crystal clear about the situation, and thus may have you thinking along different lines?

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I would like to add my 2 cents worth.... Whoever told you that a subcompact backhoe can't do any meaningful work has probably never used one. I installed an entire septic system using my SCUT. Dug the hole for the tank (6'6" deep, 10'x12'), 300' of trenches (2' wide x 5' deep), plus another 400' trench for electric that was 4' deep, 1' wide), moved 100 tons of stone for the drive and the septic, dug the foundation for the house....the list goes on and on..

A SCUT TLB will easily handle what you described. Oh, and the soil I was digging in was dry, hard, hard packed clay!

The costs if I sub contracted all that out was well over $15K. My costs---$2400. (Not including cost of tractor and my time) I bought my SCUT TLB for $15,900 brand new, $0 down. A lot easier to pay monthly too...

 

[pipetrencher]

@LS mt125
I have read so much about so many different things. So to read about what you done with your scut is unbelievable. (so to speak) But that is pretty awesome. I did read one thing I remember about the LS (don't remember model) but the consensus was positive, that I do remember. So great to hear.

I almost bought an MF 1720 TLB, but after reading about lack of hydraulic power, I changed my mind? From what I remember, the reason the author had a negative view on the scut's was something along the lines of "If your digging up fresh soil, no problem. Hard compacted, problem. But as you said, that's not the case...

Ok ..... So may I ask you what the breaking force and GPM flow is to your bh

 

[Diggin It]

Hydraulic System


Implement pump (gpm): 4.6
Steering pump (gpm): 2.1
Total flow (gpm): 6.7
Category, 3 pt hitch: CAT 1
Hitch Lift capacity (lb.): 970
Lift control type: Position



LB1107

6’ Quick Attach Backhoe with available 9”, 12” & 16” Bucket

​Digging Depth (in.): 77.8
Reach from Centerline of Swing Pivot (in.): 144.9
Loading Height (in.): 59.6
Swing Arc (deg.): 140
Transport Height (in.): 74.7
Bucket Rotating (deg.): 169.4
Stabilizer Spread (Down Position) (in.): 78.6
Stabilizer Spread (Up Position) (in.): 53.2
Bucket Digging Force (lbs.): 2,097

MT125-24.7HP | LS Tractor

 

[chim]

If you want a backhoe, please disregard my comments. I do things that I want to / enjoy that don't make sense to everyone.

If your driveway is 1,300 SF and not 1,300 feet long, anything will work just fine.

You should get plenty of advice on mowing. My first choice is a rear finish mower. Many prefer a zero-turn or belly mower, and the discussions always include flail mowers. I think the one thing that most would agree on is that it's desirable to have something at least 5 feet wide unless you really enjoy riding mowers. I guess that if I had a wife who wanted to help mow every time and two mowers that totaled 88" it could be doable.

 

[shooterdon]

With 0% interest from many dealers, and a warranty, buying new can make sense.

It is one reason I am looking at a New Holland. In my case, the LS has a better offering to meet my needs and lower price, but does not offer 0%. Buying it will ding my bank account. Do not discount the LS line up. It offers a lot of tractor at a significant savings over the green and orange lines.

BTW, in my limited experience, both the LS dealers closest to me are much easier to work with. My green and orange dealers can be arrogant SOB's. YOU ARE BUYING THE DEALER too so always bear that in mind.

Good luck

A SCUT can do a lot of work but it will take a bit more time. It is a trade off.

 

[Rustyiron]

This is my 1st post. So, hi all.

I never would have thought that I would ever say "I need a tractor", but a few months after trying to settle into a rural property.......... well............ "I need a tractor".

Welcome to TBN "pipe". You've always needed a tractor, you just needed the right property.:thumbsup:

 

[pipetrencher]

Hydraulic System


Implement pump (gpm): 4.6
Steering pump (gpm): 2.1
Total flow (gpm): 6.7
Category, 3 pt hitch: CAT 1
Hitch Lift capacity (lb.): 970
Lift control type: Position



LB1107

6’ Quick Attach Backhoe with available 9”, 12” & 16” Bucket

​Digging Depth (in.): 77.8
Reach from Centerline of Swing Pivot (in.): 144.9
Loading Height (in.): 59.6
Swing Arc (deg.): 140
Transport Height (in.): 74.7
Bucket Rotating (deg.): 169.4
Stabilizer Spread (Down Position) (in.): 78.6
Stabilizer Spread (Up Position) (in.): 53.2
Bucket Digging Force (lbs.): 2,097

MT125-24.7HP | LS Tractor

Thanks for the specs Diggin,

2097 lbs of Bucket digging force. That is the BH and not the FEL correct? Assuming the BH, would you say if considering a small 12" bucket, that would pretty much tackle my digging needs? (assuming compact soil) Also 4.6 G/M flow. Is this good enough.

I ask these questions because I have read some of the mid size/bigger BH's have double and triple these specs. Is double and triple overkill for my application?

 

[pipetrencher]

If you want a backhoe, please disregard my comments. I do things that I want to / enjoy that don't make sense to everyone.

If your driveway is 1,300 SF and not 1,300 feet long, anything will work just fine.

You should get plenty of advice on mowing. My first choice is a rear finish mower. Many prefer a zero-turn or belly mower, and the discussions always include flail mowers. I think the one thing that most would agree on is that it's desirable to have something at least 5 feet wide unless you really enjoy riding mowers. I guess that if I had a wife who wanted to help mow every time and two mowers that totaled 88" it could be doable.

If I didn't have to spend a whack of doe, i'd be a happy camper without a BH. But I just think that in the long run it's the way to go. And yeah I guess I gotta be honest, the kid in me can't wait to dig some trenches

Driveway total area is 1300 sq/ft total, so cool

I actually did want a 0turn, but I just couldn't buck up the extra cash. So I figured along the lines of what you mentioned, 88" of cut for $2,400. Hopefully she can do it all when I'm workin'

Thanks

 

[Diggin It]

Thanks for the specs Diggin,

2097 lbs of Bucket digging force. That is the BH and not the FEL correct? Assuming the BH, would you say if considering a small 12" bucket, that would pretty much tackle my digging needs? (assuming compact soil) Also 4.6 G/M flow. Is this good enough.

I ask these questions because I have read some of the mid size/bigger BH's have double and triple these specs. Is double and triple overkill for my application?

Those of us that have them don't think they're incapable, but we recognize the limitations. I'm new to hydraulic equipment in general, so I take it slow and try to learn what it can and can't do along the way. I wouldn't try to dig a basement, but I've read that others have. It is not a construction equivalent backhoe, but it will do most of what an average homeowner would need to do. I've dug out some pretty good stumps from dry red rock gravel/clay that you can't even begin to get a hand shovel into.

 

[pipetrencher]

With 0% interest from many dealers, and a warranty, buying new can make sense.

It is one reason I am looking at a New Holland. In my case, the LS has a better offering to meet my needs and lower price, but does not offer 0%. Buying it will ding my bank account. Do not discount the LS line up. It offers a lot of tractor at a significant savings over the green and orange lines.

BTW, in my limited experience, both the LS dealers closest to me are much easier to work with. My green and orange dealers can be arrogant SOB's. YOU ARE BUYING THE DEALER too so always bear that in mind.

Good luck

A SCUT can do a lot of work but it will take a bit more time. It is a trade off.

I kinda figured it was only a matter of time before someone posted this. Let's face it, I would love to have a new unit, and getting real support when you really need it is a god sent. But even a new scut with fel and bh without the MM mower will run me 24k. I have a truck and a family vehicle both older models but paid for. I just don't like having payments over and above the mortgage.

Regarding time to do the job...... That's fine, NP time fly's when you're doing stuff like this (unless you do it everyday maybe)

All I can say is, if I were a mechanic I wouldn't even ponder new, but being somewhat of a ****** I do have to consider it, so thanks.

 

[pipetrencher]

Welcome to TBN "pipe". You've always needed a tractor, you just needed the right property.:thumbsup:

Ha ha.......... you bet...

 

[pipetrencher]

I was looking at this

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...or/1422967921?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Only thing that "I" didn't really like off the bat was that the previous owner a landscaper? I just figured that if the O/O was in the seat he may not have been to harsh, but the applications the tractor must have been put through are probably more than a home owner ever would have had to do. And if a worker was in the seat, only god knows what he would have been doing with the thing?

I'm looking at something along these lines because of the comment by "LS mt125 owner". He did a lot with a similar type tractor.

Thoughts?

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I was looking at this

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...or/1422967921?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Only thing that "I" didn't really like off the bat was that the previous owner a landscaper? I just figured that if the O/O was in the seat he may not have been to harsh, but the applications the tractor must have been put through are probably more than a home owner ever would have had to do. And if a worker was in the seat, only god knows what he would have been doing with the thing?

I'm looking at something along these lines because of the comment by "LS mt125 owner". He did a lot with a similar type tractor.

Thoughts?

Yes, that is a capable machine. Not too bad of a price. They may be willing to drop even further. Look it over closely, check the fluids, have them let you drive it around and try all the movements of the loader and backhoe. See if they will do a 30 day "bumper to bumper" warranty if you find something wrong.

Like Diggin it said, these are not full size machines, but are quite capable. It just takes a little longer to do some things.

I hope you are able to find something that will "fit" into your budget. That's the tough part. I was very limited in budget, trying to save all my available funds to pay for materials for building a new house. Of course I wanted to get a bigger tractor...we all do... But having a smaller tractor that will do the work, vs. not having one at all, was not even a question. In a couple of years, IF, my needs change, I could sell / trade / keep, Or just get a bigger tractor.... The key word was "if".... Maybe not.

 

[pipetrencher]

Those of us that have them don't think they're incapable, but we recognize the limitations. I'm new to hydraulic equipment in general, so I take it slow and try to learn what it can and can't do along the way. I wouldn't try to dig a basement, but I've read that others have. It is not a construction equivalent backhoe, but it will do most of what an average homeowner would need to do. I've dug out some pretty good stumps from dry red rock gravel/clay that you can't even begin to get a hand shovel into.

Thanks, that's the kind of information I'm talking about. Specs are specs and they are meaningful but what you just mentioned sounds about as much as I would ever need.

So a scut may be on the horizon yet?

Thanks again...

 

[Diggin It]

But even a new scut with fel and bh without the MM mower will run me 24k.

Mine was around $18K with FEL, MMM, BH, 48" Tiller and Subsoiler/Middlebuster. That last two added just under $1700 to the total.

 

[nards444]

15k is going to limit your choices for new unless you go for the small machines like in the 18-19hp range. Think you will be close if you look at LS, TYM, branson, and maybe Mahindra. Anything JD or Kubota is going to be well into the 20s.

As for your ditch, back hoe for tractors cost a lot of money like 5k a lot of money. If it were a one time deal Id rent an excavator or the attachment for the weekend.

 

[dodge man]

I'm also going to steer you away from getting a back hoe, the main reason being cost. It adds about 5k or even a little more to the cost. Rent a trencher for a day and you can get a lot of work done in a short time.

For reference, bought the following about 2 months ago. A JD2025, loader, 60" autoconnect mower, pallet forks and loaded rear tires. As I recall the out the door price was between 20 and 21k. I normally am a cash buyer but there was a $200 incentive to finance it. I don't even have to make a payment until next year but traded in a Kubota BX worth 7k. There seems to be a point when buying used doesn't make sense, looking at lower hour used machines it doesn't cost much more to get new. If you start looking at machines with a 1000 hours the cost goes down.

A SCUT or a CUT? There is no right or wrong answer. I just switched from a SCUT to a CUT. For mowing the smaller lighter tractor is better, for everything else, bigger is better. Good luck in your search.