Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[walhondingMF]

What a silly analogy
Like do I have a choice where the chips come from?
Maybe if we had some functional national policy, we would make them here?
Now we have Chinese battery plants being built in Michigan. What’s next? Chinese policy taught in schools? Oh wait, we already have that….

It's a perfect analogy. Whether you like solar or not, a lot of people in this country do. Because there are very, very few companies in America that make solar panels, they have to come from China. Because there are very few companies in America that make microchips, they have to come from China...

Solution...

Encourage industry chains in America that make things Americans want. (Yes, yes I know, with tax money. We don't need to rehash that part of the discussion).

 

[walhondingMF]

and do t think the anti-Nukey folks won’t protest that, too

Actually some of the biggest anti-nukey protest is to the waste. There is no waste in fusion.

 

[kenmbz]

We see few oil refineries being built in the US.
News says due to regulations and greenies.

In reality, taxes on oil are at the refinery (purchase of final product), so having them in low cost countries is a smart tax avoidance move.

This is corporate, not government, unless you include all the gov people that set these rules decades ago.

 

[bvanek]

I'll point the finger at all of them. I'm just telling you your "hero" didn't actually accomplish anything and only claimed he did. Closing the front door but opening the back.

my hero(s) are....not famous. They are relatively simple and modest and mostly behind the scenes. Many of them people who gave everything for their country including their lives. The politics always undermines their great sacrifices but they did it anyway...... Maybe they even preserved the freedom to express an opinion, even grandstand, in a tractor forum?

So an "America first" agenda works for me and I support leadership that promotes this policy. Once we (in America) take this freedom for granted, we all lose.

none of my comments in here are off the cuff. they are not a fabrication....A country in decline is not what I want for my grand kids. The groundwork for a free society has been compromised over decades and now the green energy scam is pushing us over the edge. Fixing it won't happen in my lifetime, so my dog in the fight is not so personal as yours might be......
economically, you should you run your country like a business and sack the pandering and virtue signalling. (no value there, it's not a personality contest) If corporate government and bureaucracies use all their power and money to re-shuffle the deck and deal from the bottom, then it takes a strong and independent leader willing to take it on............Bucking an entrenched, and essentially corrupt system is a monumental task and will take more than 4 years to correct. The last two and half years have been devastating so it could very well be too late by 2024.

 

[Dftodd]

You cannot eliminate hydrocarbons.

how many gallons of lubricants are required for a wind generator?

How do you insulate electric cables with sunbeams?

hydrocarbons are essential and saying “We all do” (want to eliminate hydrocarbons) is a blatantly ridiculous assertion.

I like my hydrocarbons, especially since I am made up of so many.

More and more cables are being coated with soy based polymers. I can't comment on high voltage lines. But soy based coating on automotive and equipment wiring is the reason they are so appetizing to critters and rodents.

 

[walhondingMF]

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/07/us-manufacturing-growth-outpaced-world

Seems American manufacturing is on an incline.

 

[Elviscaretaker]

Agree. But maybe were blaming the wrong "people" here. Maybe price gouging and using the money that the corporations received should have been spent on the workers. Instead it was used to recoup stock losses for shareholders. They said as much. They took our tax dollars and gave it to the rich investors rather than reinvesting it. The problem is much bigger than the previous administration or the current.

The covid cash never should have been offered. While some small companies may have needed it, it's a typical government handout of other people's money that gets abused. These never work as intended. The people who should take the blame are in government. The companies and people are only taking advantage of what they were offered. If the offer wasn't put out to start with....

 

[walhondingMF]

economically, you should you run your country like a business and sack the pandering and virtue signalling. (no value there, it's not a personality contest) If corporate government and bureaucracies use all their power and money to re-shuffle the deck and deal from the bottom, then it takes a strong and independent leader willing to take it on............Bucking an entrenched, and essentially corrupt system is a monumental task and will take more than 4 years to correct. The last two and half years have been devastating so it could very well be too late by 2024.

bvanek,
There are several things I can agree with you on here, but I'll start my disagreements. I do not believe our country, even economically should be run like a business from the governmental perspective. The purpose of business is to make money and the government should not be intended to make money. It should function like a family on a fixed income, making decisions on how to spend that money for the benefit of the "family," now and in the future. Like an investment. The business part is up to the businesses. Pandering and virtue signaling is a matter of perspective or opinion, but I understand your implications.
I understood the desire for an independent leader, I just disagreed with the one that was chosen, essentially because of the largest tax breaks for the wealthy in our countries history, which lowers the "income" I reference above. I personally was in support of another leader that ran at the time who was "independent." I see little promise from anyone we will have options with in 2024, regardless of party. That entrenched, corrupt system may continue. A recent increase in American manufacturing show promise and our country is innovative. I have hope for you grand kids, and my son's future.

 

[walhondingMF]

The covid cash never should have been offered. While some small companies may have needed it, it's a typical government handout of other people's money that gets abused. These never work as intended. The people who should take the blame are in government. The companies and people are only taking advantage of what they were offered. If the offer wasn't put out to start with....

Couldn't agree more. And if we remember, both the past and current administration were involved in these. I think the money that went to the average American and small businesses was needed and helped. The Child Tax credit alone showed a 2/3 decrease in childhood poverty for the period of time it was available.
In the 30s, the system for distributing money like the pandemic was established. It is designed to go through banks. In the 30s, that worked OK. Things are much more complicated now and the system to distribute has never been updated. This leaves a lack of oversight into who the money went to. I only know this from listening to a few economists discuss it on a very nonpartisan podcast. Both T...p and B...n we're well intention-ed but the out of date system is where the flaws came in.

 

[Hay Dude]

The solar industry is receiving the same tax abutments and subsides the NG industry is receiving.

As if the NG industry is directly correlated with the Keystone XL pipeline??? .
You are not reachable in a logical discussion or able to differentiate between a single oil pipeline and the entire NG industry.

 

[KilroyJC]

Correction... the oil industry receives the same subsidies as the solar industry.

And if you want to discuss pipelines son, the pipeline construction and transmission station design and construction company 2 of my nephews work for get plenty of subsidies. One of them is responsible for applying for them for the specific jobs he is assigned to.

If tax rates were not so high, subsidies ( which come from taxation and irresponsible borrowing) would not be necessary.

 

[KilroyJC]

It's a perfect analogy. Whether you like solar or not, a lot of people in this country do. Because there are very, very few companies in America that make solar panels, they have to come from China. Because there are very few companies in America that make microchips, they have to come from China...

Solution...

Encourage industry chains in America that make things Americans want. (Yes, yes I know, with tax money. We don't need to rehash that part of the discussion).

And those industries still need to be powered by hydrocarbons (readily available) or nuclear (is it true a new plant was approved? Or is that just Internet rumor?).

 

[walhondingMF]

Correction... the oil industry receives the same subsidies as the solar industry.

And if you want to discuss pipelines son, the pipeline construction and transmission station design and construction company 2 of my nephews work for get plenty of subsidies. One of them is responsible for applying for them for the specific jobs he is assigned to.

Note this correction I made...

 

[KilroyJC]

More and more cables are being coated with soy based polymers. I can't comment on high voltage lines. But soy based coating on automotive and equipment wiring is the reason they are so appetizing to critters and rodents.

A friend of mine was a Toyota dealer mechanic. They had the hardest time figuring out why so many cars were having electrical problems right off the lot when those coatingsnfirst began being used.

 

[walhondingMF]

And those industries still need to be powered by hydrocarbons (readily available) or nuclear (is it true a new plant was approved? Or is that just Internet rumor?).

Yes many have been approved. Several outskirt communities of Columbus are "fighting" over who is going to get the micro chip factory for tax reasons, much like how the amazon warehouse and facebook data center are all paying for new schools.
Some factories may run on hydrocarbons, some on solar or wind. Whatever the manufacturer sees as their best option. If Tesla's can be made in factories powered by solar, so can micro chips.
My statement on micro chips was not about what would power their production, just the fact that there is an effort to bring their production here.

Will the CHIPS Act really bring back semiconductor production and tech jobs?

Micron Technology is just the latest of a half dozen companies to announce new semiconductor fabrication plants in the US, part of a US government effort to bring chip manufacturing back to American shores. But a lack of tech talent and long-term funding questions could derail the mission.

www.computerworld.com

 

[walhondingMF]

If tax rates were not so high, subsidies ( which come from taxation and irresponsible borrowing) would not be necessary.

My grandfather, who was a conservative, used to talk about how America was at it's best when the corporate tax rate was at 80%. Now, none of the corporations actually paid that, but their taxes were reduced when they showed that portions of their profits were going into R & D, Health Care, wages or growing the industry. When that changed, everything changed. Now, profits are for shareholders.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

And those industries still need to be powered by hydrocarbons (readily available) or nuclear (is it true a new plant was approved? Or is that just Internet rumor?).

Yes, the new facility is supposed to come online in 2029.

 

[walhondingMF]

Yes, the new facility is supposed to come online in 2029.

I think more are coming also. Even California's governor has changed his opinion on the 2 nuke plants that were in production.

 

[KilroyJC]

Yes many have been approved. Several outskirt communities of Columbus are "fighting" over who is going to get the micro chip factory for tax reasons, much like how the amazon warehouse and facebook data center are all paying for new schools.
Some factories may run on hydrocarbons, some on solar or wind. Whatever the manufacturer sees as their best option. If Tesla's can be made in factories powered by solar, so can micro chips.
My statement on micro chips was not about what would power their production, just the fact that there is an effort to bring their production here.

Will the CHIPS Act really bring back semiconductor production and tech jobs?

Micron Technology is just the latest of a half dozen companies to announce new semiconductor fabrication plants in the US, part of a US government effort to bring chip manufacturing back to American shores. But a lack of tech talent and long-term funding questions could derail the mission.

www.computerworld.com

My grandfather, who was a conservative, used to talk about how America was at it's best when the corporate tax rate was at 80%. Now, none of the corporations actually paid that, but their taxes were reduced when they showed that portions of their profits were going into R & D, Health Care, wages or growing the industry. When that changed, everything changed. Now, profits are for shareholders.

It was even better before the 16th Amendment. . . Taxes paid by corporations and tariffs. Citizens kept whatever they made, productive people were not penalized. IIRC one of the (many) reasons why the Panama Canal was built was because the uS Treasury was so full they were trying to come up with ways to spend it.

 

[kenmbz]

I think the micro nukes plants sound like a way to go forward.
More modular and seem less complex and easier to maintain.
I certainly hope these will reduce nuclear waste as they state, would be a great boost to perception.

The nuclear plants were awful at marketing.

We were at the Yankee plant and they were "proud" that their containers could take an accident with a truck going 80mph. My brother asked what happened if the truck was doing 90+ and the presenter looked funny and then moved on to the next slide.

Not a warm fuzzy feeling from that