Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[Elviscaretaker]

Not sure where you are getting this. There are most definitely differences in panel and inverter manufacturers, efficiencies and degradation over time.

My system is way less than ideal because it is roof mounted. Not a perfect angle, not a perfect direction and some shade from tall oaks at certain times. Nonetheless, 20MWh over 12months on a 15kw system (15kw panels and 15kw inverter, I’d prefer a bit more on the panel side to make up for inefficiencies and increase area under production curve, but just don’t have the room on that roof, 42 panels east up half of my 40x50 shop roof pretty completely).

I researched solar for a while, read the manufactures literature on how they claimed the equipment would perform and the expected degradation schedules on the various ones. There really is getting to be less buying options as companies have left the field. Based on the research I've done, micro inverter systems have less fall out due to a single panel degrading vs the single inverter system you have. A single panel on a single inverter system can cause the whole system to way under produce while the micro inverter system can still work near peak efficiency. Not that I really trust what the manufactures say so I've also talked and have been show how multiple systems are working in reality. One is based in Washington under less than ideal conditions, another in Arizona and then Idaho in what is considered ideal situations. Another an older system in Washington in a more open area. All fixed mount, all have underperformed so far. Being newer installs we'll see how the do in the peak season. Then I've used solar in the past for attic vents, gate and fence chargers, generators and have been disappointed with the results so I tend to carry a jump box with me in the winter just in case the batteries didn't charge. For ME, I've decided the best system would be a gimble mounted micro inverter ground based system. Then I looked into the the costs and it will not ever break even. If I do it myself it might but then I have grid tie issues with the local UD. So, the path I've chosen is efficiency. I average 3300kwh a month, sometimes up to 5000kwh if the temp drops low enough. Somethings I can change like my high powered lot lights and bringing this old barn conversion up to current specs. Others such at tank heaters and the greenhouse, not much you can do and still have them do the work required. I can go onto wind also and the benefit's of turbine vs blade but this is long already AND most likely boring. Besides, break time is over and I need to get out into the fields and emit some greenhouse gases to keep the greening of the world moving along. Also gives the cows a work out as they follow me around for hours Either way, I do like hearing how others systems have preformed vs what I research and see.....

 

[OzarkChris]

Check out this article about a large lithium deposit in Wyoming. New Wyoming Lithium Deposit could Meet all U.S. Demand | OilPrice.com.

Nice article but this administration will probably sell the rights to that Chinese company who just got approval to build in Michigan to start making batteries.

$175 million approved for Chinese-owned factory in Michigan

Gotion Inc., a Chinese-owned company, plans to build a $2 billion electric vehicle battery plant in Green Charter Township.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[BryceSteiner]

Accounting has no politics - it is numbers, and if the numbers say one thing and the politicians say another, guess who wins?

Until politicians get involved. If the free market was allowed to work, Solar couldn't be cheaper. It's the same way with using diesel is used to power machines to make bio fuels. It is not a net gain when all factors are accounted for. Same for wind and solar. The amount of energy it takes to make renewable wouldn't even be close to building any of these on their own, they have to have huge amounts of carbon based fuels to make them and they don't last as long.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Years ago I thought about solar. I have lots of South facing buildings, lots of roof area.
Suppose a solar system grand total is $25K.
The average stock market return for the last 20 years was 8.91% (higher if you look at 10 or 30 year average). That's $185.65/ month for that $25,000.
My highest electric bill ever was $145 in 43 years. I don't have any maintenance, we've never lost power more than a few days.
Should I go solar?

 

[JRH02]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

They purchased poorly. If they had bought forested land on the north facing side of a canyon you'd have no such risk.

Enjoy your all electric house, your EV, your diesel pickups and equipment plugged in all winter long. We all know that there is all the electricity available as needed at your heart's desire. Your REA loves you and your descendants will get a check in a few hundred years if the service stays in your name.

But seriously, who are you to say what neighbors do with their land if privately owned and they have a business opportunity? If a commercial concern buys the land for this purpose there might have a zoning issue to be argued.

Also, the city person who builds a McMansion on a few acres cut out of a section who owns nothing else? What if someone bought a 20 across the road and started a recycling business?

 

[Hay Dude]

Years ago I thought about solar. I have lots of South facing buildings, lots of roof area.
Suppose a solar system grand total is $25K.
The average stock market return for the last 20 years was 8.91% (higher if you look at 10 or 30 year average). That's $185.65/ month for that $25,000.
My highest electric bill ever was $145 in 43 years. I don't have any maintenance, we've never lost power more than a few days.
Should I go solar?

I think you should! You could take a big bite out of John Kerry’s carbon footprint!

 

[walhondingMF]

They whistle past the graveyard on all that stuff. Most solar panels, assembles, transformers, wiring and electrical infrastructure is made offshore, where it could be made in countries that want us destroyed, then shipped here thousands of miles on smoke belching ships.

That’s so sensible. So ethical. So “green”….

Hence the Green New Deal that someone already posted was not created for environmental reasons but for encouraging the manufacturing of new components in America. I don't remember the exact number that I heard, but several conservative congressional members have been causing voting issues because their districts are manufacturing energy products. They have to decide to vote with party lines or vote to support manufacturing that has already started where their electors live.

 

[Roric]

Years ago I thought about solar. I have lots of South facing buildings, lots of roof area.
Suppose a solar system grand total is $25K.
The average stock market return for the last 20 years was 8.91% (higher if you look at 10 or 30 year average). That's $185.65/ month for that $25,000.
My highest electric bill ever was $145 in 43 years. I don't have any maintenance, we've never lost power more than a few days.
Should I go solar?

I will use your annual market return figure:
My solar array, installed by me, had out-of-pocket cost of $9,400.
9400 x 8.91% = $837.54
divided by 12 (months) = $69.80

My electric bill prior to going solar averaged double that.
That bill is now gone at the end of the year.
(I admit we have made lots of conservation moves, but we also added a plug in hybrid to our vehicle list, I would guess a "wash" really.)
I do not have to pay taxes on the market return either.

Go figure.

Your milage may vary.

regards,

R

 

[Hay Dude]

Hence the Green New Deal that someone already posted was not created for environmental reasons but for encouraging the manufacturing of new components in America. I don't remember the exact number that I heard, but several conservative congressional members have been causing voting issues because their districts are manufacturing energy products. They have to decide to vote with party lines or vote to support manufacturing that has already started where their electors live.

Thiat was tried before (Solyndra). It bordered on fraud.
Honestly, as much as I think the science is questionable and we have much better options, I sincerely hope new businesses are created here with long term great paying jobs.
Seeins how this bunch operates, my confidence level is low.

 

[turbo36]

This thread!

 

[MossRoad]

We have a 1200 acre solar farm going in and many of the residents don't want it for various reasons. I don't blame them. It practically destroys tiling.
I don't understand why not put them above the highways and interstates. with a 300' width road way you could easily put the panels where the power will be most used. It would also keep the sun off the asphalt for extended life. It would lessen the need of salt on those areas, preserving the roads and the electrical infrastructure is already along the highways. You also wouldn't need to snow plow near as much and you could direct power into the road for melting.

It would take too much support to span the highways.
It would cost exponentially more than ground mounted.
It would require dealing with rainwater runoff onto traffic.
It would collapse every time a car ran off the road and hit a support.
Probably a bunch of other reasons.

 

[OzarkChris]

It would take too much support to span the highways.
It would cost exponentially more than ground mounted.
It would require dealing with rainwater runoff onto traffic.
It would collapse every time a car ran off the road and hit a support.
Probably a bunch of other reasons.

Yup, but you have to listen to the bartender crowd in congress - it's just fake money anyway, nobody cares how much we print!

 

[bvanek]

Honestly, as much as I think the science is questionable and we have much better options, I sincerely hope new businesses are created here with long term great paying jobs.
Seeins how this bunch operates, my confidence level is low.

Well I'm an old retired guy, 35 years in the work force in an industry that made a product...I commuted from my small homestead 50 miles to work every day.. now retired and went from part time farmer to pretty much full time. My faith in US manufacturing is as low as yours and add in that participation in the work force seems quite unpopular today (exceptions of course) I see this as the main issue.....

there are over 7 million men capable of working who don't wish to. Lots of unfulfilled skilled and technical job openings and ground up apprenticeships being ignored.That number is likely a lot higher as we are rapidly creating voids in active work vs "progressing" into dependency on the government and entitlements. Seems many are perfectly comfortable with living on a plantation and owning nothing?

Being a corporate sponsored service nation that outsources manufacturing by design is what lowers confidence and rightfully so. I know I won't see a turnaround in my lifetime..... but maybe I was born too early?

the "better options" should be an advantage, but when government and their corporate sponsors are not on board and essentially using their power to eliminate those options then we tend to reason with skepticism.

 

[MossRoad]

I wonder when folks talk about all the farm land solar is taking over if they've ever sought out the facts about how much farm land is actually used for solar.

Read the whole article. It's fascinating. Here's a tidbit.

The True Land Footprint of Solar Energy

In communities with active solar development, there is often debate about how utility-scale solar might affect existing land uses or natural resources.

betterenergy.org

Table 1. Average percentage of county in cultivated agriculture versus solar by region

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

You can find all sorts of interesting statistics with internet research, like:
"The U.S. has 102.9 gigawatts of total solar installed capacity which is equivalent to 965 square miles, roughly the size of the country’s smallest state, Rhode Island. This current solar capacity generates enough electricity to power 18.6 million American homes, which is nearly 13% of the nation’s households."
So 7.6 Rhode Islands of panels would power the US...until the proliferation of EVs and chargers everywhere.
Last year we used 4.24 trillion kWh of electricity. To have all the necessary chargers in place by 2035 we'll certainly be using quite a bit more juice than that.
I'm amazed how a marble sized pancreatic tumor can take out a 250# person also.

 

[mcallen]

Nothing demonstrates solar projects having any negative impact on adjecent property values. If anything is shows the community is smart enough to understand basic science and research done by their own, that FF's are killing the planet. However, it is wise find our if the landowner is going to do only solar, meaning panels mounted at a minimum height or the truly profitable and worthwhile method of tall mounting. The latter allows for continued use of the ground below for farming thus maintaining the ecological benefits of growing crops, available Ag tax credits, plus domestic production. No one loses!

 

[Grumpycat]

Ford, GM, Dodge, they all got some kind of a bail out during the great recession.

We have not lived in a Free Market Capitalist Economy for some time. No big player acts without massive government accommodations.

Locally Toyota built an engine plant with massive accommodation from Huntsville and Alabama.

Then Toyota expanded the plant with more accommodation from Huntsville and Alabama. Huntsville now has the distinction of being the only city in the world where Toyota builds 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines.

Then a Toyota-Mazda partnership built an automobile factory with accommodation from Huntsville and Alabama.

Polaris built a powersports factory with accommodation from Huntsville and Alabama.

Remington moved some of their operation to Huntsville with accommodation from Huntsville and Alabama. Went bankrupt anyway.

Facebook built a datacenter with accommodation from Huntsville and Alabama. Is now expanding the site to 1000 acres. TVA helped as well, Facebook has a "power sharing agreement" where Facebook builds PV farms in TN to offset the massive consumption of 1000 acres of servers.

These are just a few examples near me.

 

[Grumpycat]

Just to be pedantic, No, Ford did not receive a federal bail out. GM and Chrysler (Daimler) did.

Ditto. Ford's management saw the writing on the wall and sold most all factories and real estate in the years prior when the market was good and buyers none the wiser. GM and Chrysler continued to act recklessly knowing they would get a bailout.

 

[Grumpycat]

How hypocritical it is to buy Chinese products mined with diesel fuel and coal power, built sometimes by slave labor, then shipped to the USA in smoke belching ships for 6,000 miles?

I crack up at Chinese made solar panels and batteries (or anything else) being labeled as “green”.
They are about as “green” as a nugget of bituminous coal and about as ethically made as a plantation making cotton in the civil war south.

I crack up how you assume all solar panels come from China.

 

[Grumpycat]

Check out this article about a large lithium deposit in Wyoming. New Wyoming Lithium Deposit could Meet all U.S. Demand | OilPrice.com.

The USA has never had a shortage of lithium resources or any "Rare" Earth. The only problem is government will not allow the recovery or processing of such, no matter we can mine and refine those resources every bit as clean as anything else we do. These markets have been gifted to others by globalists.