Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[walhondingMF]

I travel into a lot of states with forgotten people. States like Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania. Many people I meet there have almost given up. They think their country has forgotten them, that they don’t count.

I think that sucks and they should be able to buy energy as cheaply as possible with the NG right under their feet.

What you are observing is not wrong haydude. I live in the part of Ohio you are speaking of. I teach their kids everyday. But I cannot blame the "Green New Deal" and "expensive" alternative energy sources. There is none here. No part of the country is tapping into the NG supply more than southeastern Ohio. Production has been gradually ramping back up since the pandemic, with a big help from the subsidies. These companies know how to play the game though. The very clean NG power plant built along interstate 77 is a great idea, and for the most part, we have to be glad it's here. However, they received a good chunk of green energy funding to build it. In return, they got a 30 year tax abatement. The terms settled on are 1 million dollars a year for 30 years to the school district. Not complaining because we couldn't afford it otherwise, but that amount of money just covers 1/2 of the cost to rebuild and renovate our buildings. 30 million dollars over 30 years is pennies. Can you imagine what our poor community could do if they had to pay actual taxes.
Natural Gas is one of the fastest growing energy forms in our country. We are doing exactly what you are asking, but it's not the "silver bullet" its proponents claim it is. It's another very good energy option when used the correct way in the right places.

 

[Northernliving]

To the poster who asked about payback… The only reason there is a “payback” on solar installations is because they are heavily subsidize by the government (well, the tax payers).

 

[troverman]

Solar panels have a huge footprint required in order to generate meaningful power. It is true that they don't pollute the air whatsoever. However, compared to a modern natural gas powerplant, they really perform very poorly. The gas plant has a far smaller footprint and generally more output; modern emissions controls have reduced their air pollution to reasonable levels. The biggest thing is that a gas power plant can operate with perfect reliability 24/7/365 and do so for 100+ years if continued maintenance is performed. Solar, on the other hand, produces zero power every single night, and will not produce max capacity except on sunny days. The panels have a very finite lifespan of approximately 25 years at which point there is an enormous amount of materials to dispose of, some of which is difficult or impossible to recycle. On top of all that, many of these solar farms are installed in what previously was viable farm land - solar farms know a cost-benefit analysis is never on their side, so they need to minimize installation costs. Open fields are an easy target. So we now make power where we previously could make food for people or animals; this is not a sustainable practice. Having the panels installed for years over this land ruins the fertility of the ground as well. Lastly, air temps around the panels can be hotter than if the panels didn't exist, especially at night, by about 4-8 degrees Fahrenheit. They create a heat-island effect, just like a city can.

In the end, the notion of producing significant electric power from solar panels would never, ever work unless you buy into the notion of man-made climate change. No cost-benefit analysis would ever support it. It is intermittent, unreliable, expensive energy. Might it work well on a personal home as a supplement to utility-supplied power? Absolutely. There are certain instances where the solar model works very well. Mass power generation is not one of them, and ultimately more harm than good comes from these large solar farms.

 

[aircommuter]

Using your local government to go for a list of conditions. I have been working with development for many years. Every project has to have conditions. For example since it is farmland no herbicides can be used due to drift, run off or contamination of your well. Nothing to sterilize the soil because when the solar gives out or other power sources eliminate it the farmland capabilities should remain available. Conditions that drive up the cost lower desirability. Many areas have stopped all projects from covering farmlands.

 

[rfmgis1]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

Where I live they are taking 2500 acres of irrigated farmland and putting in a solar farm. The company is calling it the Elk Creek Solar Project and will pay the family for 35 years to lease their land. The company is trying to impress people with how much good and how much tax will be paid by them to the township.

 

[K Arno]

Why do you believe that this will destroy the value of your property? Most of the farmland around here has become McMansions that can never returned to farmland.

 

[ron02simpson]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

I am on our local zoning board. I’m not sure a solar panel farm is an approved agricultural use here. You should contact the county or town planning and zoning officer to ask if the and would have to be rezoned for that use. If so you have a right to oppose to action at the rezoning meeting. I of course believe solar is an environmental disaster. Panels can leak chemicals and are a disposal problem. Good luck.

 

[kenmbz]

To the poster who asked about payback… The only reason there is a “payback” on solar installations is because they are heavily subsidize by the government (well, the tax payers).

So once the upfront subsidies are done and the Solar arrays still cover the electric bills there is no payback?
I did a calc for my house, without subsidies the payback would be very long term, but well within the useful life of the solar cells.

I don't have electricity but hot water through solar. I get no subsidies and use less oil. So no payback ?

I agree, without subsidies this would not be anywhere near as cost effective to install, but blanket statements don't work.

 

[51allis]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

This can get political real quick. For example, in our local paper, Escanaba TWP is considering annexing 19,000 acres into the neighboring county so that a solar farm can be setup as the people in Escanaba twp. do not want it. All kinds of county board corruption supposedly going on trying to get the solar farm in. Seems now a days you cannot please anyone and few will agree to your complaints if they can benefit from the solar farm in as much as getting local electric power or discounted rates etc. I like the idea of planing a fast growing tree around the perimeter such as a Norway Spruce etc. You might even be able to strike a deal with the company who wants to install the solar farm to pay for the planting of the trees. Hope you find an equitable solution.

 

[mwark]

I'm in Maine, I'm a Selectman for my town. We just passed a commercial solar ordinance.

Once you understand the magnitude of the subsidies making these operations possible you can appreciate what a house of cards this entire thing is.

Our ordinance requires the cost of cleanup to be addresses up front along with an annual inspection.

The solar companies are only leasing land here, not buying. They will pay the landowner 4x the value of the land, every year, for 20 years, plus an additional 20-year option.

You must ask yourself, why would they pay 1000s of times what the land could be bought for?

Maine is the most forested state (by %) in the country, our net carbon is less than zero. We are cutting 1000s of acers of forest for wind and solar that only work if the power they generate is compensated at 300% of wholesale. I think this all starts to make sense when you follow the money.

 

[51allis]

to the OP, your situation makes a person ponder a bit. Everyday it seems our rights are encroached upon with little recourse. From EV push, war on oil, banning of gas stoves etc. the list goes on and on. I have Amish neighbors that use no electricity, to me thats the ultimate green but few can handle the lifestyle (not considering the religious aspect of it, just their way of life etc.). If you are going to go green and be an earth steward, there is nothing that comes close to how the Amish do what they do. AGAIN not considering religion part of it, but candles, canning, gardening, building, farming, wood cook stove, wood heat stoves etc., they obviously utilize the "green" to a enormous extent and many have been doing the same thing for over 100 years. Sometimes technology can be more trouble than its worth and we as a society are quickly seeing the effects of this.

 

[mx842]

We have that problem here in Va. too. they tried to put in 200 ac of them down the street from us. Then a group got together to fight it and won but it took money to do it. They sent out mailers to every home in the area and asked for donations to help with the cost of fighting the project. Everybody I know of donated and in the end it paid off. It takes loud voices and money to fight city hall. We were not so lucky on on the hundred ac track where a major battle of the Civil War was faught on. I don't know where the Civil War ptoperties people were on that one. They sneaked that one in without anyone knowing about it until it was to late.
Here the owners don't actually sell the property they lease it to the investment company company that''s putting them in normally for like 30 year lease then they pull out. Of course by then the greeny weenie bunch will have come up with some other gimmic to waste our money on.

 

[walhondingMF]

I"VE GOT IT!

Maybe, we're all looking at this all wrong. Maybe instead of figuring out how to make more energy, we should be figuring out how to need less of it...

But needing less of something is not good for capitalism and the economy...

 

[terryu]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

Check with your municipality as to what the land is zoned for. If it’s zoned agriculture they may need to have a public hearing to try re-zone. Also has anyone made a plan for reclamation of these panels, they have at best a 30 year life expectancy.

 

[Flogger]

I feel sorry for your daughter. We have had several large scale solar projects in our area the last couple of years, they are installed on good agriculture lands.
I have several very mixed feelings on this type of project. I believe that they should be installed on marginal ground, pasture , brush lots and such not on good arable ground.
Also the appearance of these things is not the nicest view in the world.
Then we have the other side;
it is their property, it is theirs to do with as they see fit, they are the ones paying the taxes on that property, they are trying to make some money off their property.
It is private property what right does someone have to tell property owners what to do with their private property.

Besides look at the bright side it could be a 5000 head hog farm, or 20,000 unit poultry setup.

Doesn't ones rights begin to fade as they encroach into others. Damage to property values is no different than physical damage.

 

[bhooper]

Last year, Facebook corp (Meta, whatever) installed solar panels on probably hundreds of acres south of metro Atlanta in a rural county. The problem was cutting and spraying the grass below and around the panels would be a huge undertaking. So they, along with some other agency solved the problem by raising the panels high enough to let sheep graze under them. It seems to work. I think it doubled the sheep population in Ga. and produces grass fed meat. Still have to look at ugly panels but maybe it helped with property value and is producing food and electricity.

 

[walhondingMF]

We have that problem here in Va. too. they tried to put in 200 ac of them down the street from us. Then a group got together to fight it and won but it took money to do it. They sent out mailers to every home in the area and asked for donations to help with the cost of fighting the project. Everybody I know of donated and in the end it paid off. It takes loud voices and money to fight city hall. We were not so lucky on on the hundred ac track where a major battle of the Civil War was faught on. I don't know where the Civil War ptoperties people were on that one. They sneaked that one in without anyone knowing about it until it was to late.
Here the owners don't actually sell the property they lease it to the investment company company that''s putting them in normally for like 30 year lease then they pull out. Of course by then the greeny weenie bunch will have come up with some other gimmic to waste our money on.

The situation you describe is one that has been happening in our country for many, many years. It seems though, that it is a bit hypocritical to JUST blame new solar and wind facilities for this encroachment. They're just the 2 most recent added to the list. The same criticisms need to be applied equally...

My best friend's father loves his 75 acres in Smithfield, OH more than anything on Earth. Bought it with hard earned money working in a steel mill. NG pipeline company came in a few years ago when the NG boom started and offered them, along with their neighbors, a decent amount of money to run a pipeline through their property. He was the only one that said no. Loves his woods more than money. Cost him thousands in legal fees, much more than it cost the pipeline company to just run it around his property.

My in-laws have lived in the same house for 30 years. Always an old farm house and fields across the road from them. A guy who made a bunch of money on land leasing bought the farm across from them and built a large truck garage. It is leased from him by a fracking water hauling company. In the summer, they can no longer sit on their front porch because of all the dust from the trucks on the gravel drive, which is every 15 minutes. Multiple members of the family have called and filled complaints, along with my "very assertive" brother in law (who works in oil and gas) going over there. They simply reply that its just not cost effective for them to put water or tar down or they claim its the property owner's responsibility. Local ordinance enforcement is either A. overwhelmed or B. won't go after any part of the NG industry.

It's not the type of energy production, or even the actions of the energy production, it's the people responsible for the production...

 

[GrumpyL5030]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

Yup. Almost sounds like you live In our town here in northern NY. Same story here. Some want it, most of us don't, as at least not where they want it. Solar energy is a great concept, but lately it's gone overboard with promoting it. It uses up good farmland we desperately need. Where I live, it's frequently 5.5 - 6 months of winter. Not a lot of sun making it through the clouds from November to May. I think the biggest beneficiary may be the folks selling solar farms. The losers might end up being whoever owns the property when the panels go dead and are forgotten. I don't think there's a plan for disposal of these panels, similar to spent nuclear fuel. It's not gonna be pretty in +/- 30 years when a homeowner gets stuck with a bunch of abandoned, worthless junk out in their fields and ends up stuck with the responsibility of restoring the property to it's original state. It's getting pushed too aggressively right now due to a few folks making a lot of $$$ from it. Solar power can be great, but still needs a lot of bugs worked out of it. Good luck with your situation. Fight if you and your community need to.

 

[BruceS_55]

Wow! So far there’s 90 pages of comments on this thread. Hot topic indeed. On the subject of wind farms, has anyone done an impact statement on the long term use of windmills? Where does the energy come from. Obviously it’s from stealing the power of the wind. What if there was a wind farm at the top of the San Isabel National Forest eons ago. The Great Sand Dunes probably would not exist today. As long as something fits with the ideology of a certain political group, consequences be damned.

 

[Oaktree]

I have Amish neighbors that use no electricity, to me thats the ultimate green but few can handle the lifestyle (not considering the religious aspect of it, just their way of life etc.). If you are going to go green and be an earth steward, there is nothing that comes close to how the Amish do what they do. AGAIN not considering religion part of it, but candles, canning, gardening, building, farming, wood cook stove, wood heat stoves etc., they obviously utilize the "green" to a enormous extent and many have been doing the same thing for over 100 years. Sometimes technology can be more trouble than its worth and we as a society are quickly seeing the effects of this.

Not sure I'd want to live like the Amish do, but it sure would help solve the obesity epidemic we have today. Maybe a happy medium could be found between their lifestyle and the overly technified (is that a word?) lifestyle most Americans live.