Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[walhondingMF]

Good analysis...... and the games they play are about shoving climate change down our throats as a diversion to the real issues that have compounded themselves into self destruction. The US is on the verge of collapse, The climate change hysteria is a huge chunk of ill advised policies responsible for most of our issues in the United States today. You blow up our economy for a political stance using climate change as the weapon of choice, then compound it with printing worthless money and spending money we don't have. I would think that climate change doesn't make the top 20 in a tractor forum. Yet some seem to think we need to be lectured on a politically skewered "science consensus" that could be the # 1 source leading to the recent rapid decline of our country.
So someone said in here that there are better options than wind and solar. Yes there is and anyone who has a responsible approach would never let these industries be the flagship of our energy sources. Most people with a little common sense and reason have figured out the angles of discussions in here. Easy to pick out grandstanding on a particular topic vs legitimate concerns. The (in our face) issues today that could lead to a death of a nation, millennia(s) before climate ever does.......

I, and I think others on here, would argue that natural gas has become the flag ship for American energy independence. The majority of energy is produced from NG, along with a lot of other products (plastics, fertilizer). NG growth has not decreased as solar and wind have increased. It has increased along with them.
Climate "hysteria" can be overblown from people of both perspectives. Meanwhile, lots of good activity is occurring to reduce pollution, increase energy independence and increase American jobs.

 

[bvanek]

Not at all. The geology has not changed. Both cities are at the same level they were at when they were built. The tides did not flood them as consistently as they do now. Geology and weather do not play a role in what has changed.

from National Geographic

"Weathering describes the breaking down or dissolving of rocks and minerals on the surface of the Earth. Water, ice, acids, salts, plants, animals, and changes in temperature are all agents of weathering."

 

[RB5]

I, and I think others on here, would argue that natural gas has become the flag ship for American energy independence. The majority of energy is produced from NG, along with a lot of other products (plastics, fertilizer). NG growth has not decreased as solar and wind have increased. It has increased along with them.
Climate "hysteria" can be overblown from people of both perspectives. Meanwhile, lots of good activity is occurring to reduce pollution, increase energy independence and increase American jobs.

That may be true, but here they are not building enough new plants as millions of people move into the state. I'm for shutting down coal when there are better alternatives.

 

[MossRoad]

.....

Give it up. You're dealing with a flat earther. No good will come of it.

 

[bvanek]

NG growth has not decreased as solar and wind have increased. It has increased along with them.
Climate "hysteria" can be overblown from people of both perspectives. Meanwhile, lots of good activity is occurring to reduce pollution, increase energy independence and increase American jobs.

NG is a fossil fuel...it is still a target on the escalating war on fossil fuels. Fracking and other new technologies opened up better opportunities for extracting oil and natural gas reserves. All of this was available at reasonable costs because the structure and investment costs were already in place. It was promptly shut down on federal lands in 2021. Private land or land leased on private land has been a saving grace for natural gas, but as a nation we are gearing towards a state run country. All the signs are there and NY and California are a prime example of how politics interferes with viable energy options.
So "Climate hysteria on both sides" I would say far from equally when you compare to the global scheme,(IPCC) to transfer the wealth of industrialized productive countries ( mostly the USA) to nations that aren't productive. (globalized socialism). Of course China, India don't have to comply under "favored nations status" ( they wouldn't anyway but it sure secures their dominance while the rest of these foolish nations virtue signal their way into poverty and overall lower living standards.

So both sides ; ordinary people vs the global elites......Seems pretty dominate as to which side speaks the loudest.

add; "lots of new activity" has been going on for over a century. The USA has a long history of fossil fuel industrialization and we have come a long way towards improving air and water pollution in spite of it's pollution pitfalls ......Fossil fuels have built the strongest economies in the world and yanking them, like we seem so willing to embrace, has already put our Nation in a spiraling decline that we may never recover from. 32 trillion in debt and counting and no fiscal responsibility to it's citizens. A recipe for disaster.

"Good activity?" Certainly in the eye of the beholder. (as in how this thread started) and when you talk energy independence you need to talk infrastructure, processing facilities, actively reducing confining and costly regulations, "targeted" permit bias, ..... then trade balance, exports, GDP, and relying on your own abundant natural resources.....This before you put the cart before the horse and force people to lower their living standards to make China richer.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Give it up. You're dealing with a flat earther. No good will come of it.

 

[bvanek]

You're dealing with a flat earther.

careful now, you might push me over the edge.

 

[MossRoad]

Would we fall head first?

 

[Fixastuff]

Would we fall head first?

You're forgetting that gravity isn't real either in his world.

 

[bvanek]

You're forgetting that gravity isn't real either in his world.

but at least us flat earth people know that mankind can't control the climate, there are two genders, and that women have two x chromosomes (no variation) and men have an x and a y. (some variation but never both without the other). Kind of a good formula for the existence of life's generations either on a flat or round earth. (actually spherical as it is Flattened at the poles and bulges at the equator.) but you knew this.....

 

[Hay Dude]

but at least us flat earth people know that mankind can't control the climate, there are two genders, and that women have two x chromosomes (no variation) and men have an x and a y. (some variation but never both without the other). Kind of a good formula for the existence of life's generations either on a flat or round earth. (actually spherical as it is Flattened at the poles and bulges at the equator.) but you knew this.....

And that God is the creator.

 

[kenmbz]

Man can't control the climate, but he sure can mess it up big time.

 

[Hay Dude]

Man can't control the climate, but he sure can mess it up big time.

I don’t know to the extent of which he can mess up the air/atmosphere or cause temperature change. Nobody can really prove it.
I am all for reducing emissions, as long as we do it without enriching china and making it the world super power because we are too stupid to not make windmills and solar panels HERE.

I’d be a lot more optimistic about deploying more of them if we were making everything HERE.

The downside of leaving FF behind is that is a huge part of our economy we are decoupling from. We cannot afford to offshore more. We have lost way too much.

 

[tradosaurus]

I'm a 40 year old with undergraduates in biology and environmental science. Masters courses in climate study, weather and climate change. I would expect someone with a degree in engineering to have a better understanding of data collection.

Go spout your science denial somewhere else.

Figures Don't Lie But Liars Do Figure

 

[walhondingMF]

from National Geographic

"Weathering describes the breaking down or dissolving of rocks and minerals on the surface of the Earth. Water, ice, acids, salts, plants, animals, and changes in temperature are all agents of weathering."

Would we fall head first?

Yes. Your head is like the buttered side of a piece of bread...

 

[bvanek]

"those who think they know it all have no way of finding out they don't"

reference pending

 

[MossRoad]

Yes. Your head is like the buttered side of a piece of bread...

No need to be rude!

 

[bnold]

I am all for reducing emissions, as long as we do it without enriching china and making it the world super power because we are too stupid to not make ALL the windmills and solar panels HERE.

I’d be a lot more optimistic about deploying more of them if we were making everything HERE.

The downside of leaving FF behind is that is a huge part of our economy we are decoupling from. We cannot afford to offshore more. We have lost way too much.

Your consistent argument for most everything is: 100% manufacturing on US soil by US companies, including raw material sourcing, I’d like to hear your approach to how this could be achieved without impacting the 2nd part above (economy).

Quick google search about 500 manufacturing related companies on US soil for wind. Of course many foreign owned (not just China, but many European countries as well)

Same with Solar, with China and South Korea and others being the leading manufacturer of cells, there are a number of US companies that manufacture panels using those cells. Some US owned and many foreign owned.

Do you feel the same way about foreign companies manufacturing on US soil employing US citizens?

There was a pretty significant tariff in place for imported panels (30% or something) to try and make US competitive in the market. Recent admin squashed it to try and bring prices down, recently tariffs may be coming back (not tracking closely).

 

[Hay Dude]

Your consistent argument for most everything is: 100% manufacturing on US soil by US companies, including raw material sourcing, I’d like to hear your approach to how this could be achieved without impacting the 2nd part above (economy).

Quick google search about 500 manufacturing related companies on US soil for wind. Of course many foreign owned (not just China, but many European countries as well)

Same with Solar, with China and South Korea and others being the leading manufacturer of cells, there are a number of US companies that manufacture panels using those cells. Some US owned and many foreign owned.

Do you feel the same way about foreign companies manufacturing on US soil employing US citizens?

There was a pretty significant tariff in place for imported panels (30% or something) to try and make US competitive in the market. Recent admin squashed it to try and bring prices down, recently tariffs may be coming back (not tracking closely).

Never said 100%.
8 of the 10 largest solar companies are china.
If you want to make a drastic change, it’s best to put AMERICA first, not China

 

[bnold]

Never said 100%.
8 of the 10 largest solar companies are china.
If you want to make a drastic change, it’s best to put AMERICA first, not China

I’m asking how. What is the proposal?
I’d love to buy and support more US products. But I have limits to how far above and beyond market I’m willing to go.

A 30% import premium on the China panels wasn’t enough.