Fence Post Spacing

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> However It seems a bit insulting the way some people speak so boldly about it. </font>
Perhaps it's because we've seen what barbed wire can do to a horse. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[FL_Cracker]

Hey, when I did my pasture I didn't use barbed wire after all I heard but then when I was done here came the stories about metal T-Posts. Then I capped the T-Post and then that wasn't going to make a difference. Some times you can't win. You try to do what's best but there is always better. When ever someone is reviewing your work you will likly hear about the next better solution....

You just have to weigh all the options and do what's right for your needs.

 

[mudcat]

I heard that.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( won't argue your point that barbed wire isn't the safest possible fence out there. However It seems a bit insulting the way some people speak so boldly about it. )</font>

I think the biggest issue is that the possible outcome is that a horse may not see the fence.. charge thru it, become entangled in it, and then the barbs start cutting the horse.. the mor ethe horse struggles.. the more and deeper it gets cut.. makes for a tough job to free the horse and then treat it.

There are several ways to 'mitigate' these problems.

First.. make the fence visible.. there are varuous ways to do this.. Tape runners along the top or inbetween the wire strands ( this would apply to plain non-barbed stranded wire fence too ).. they also make plastic flags.. as well as reflectors.

A top board, or 3 board fence in addition to a few strands of barb wire makes it very visible. A mesh wire fence, with or without top board, and a top barb wire.. is also abit more visible.

Addition of a hot wire will train horses to stay off fences, Braided tape and hot wires work well.. they are both visual and they 'train'.

I think the stereotypical 3-4 strand barb wire and t-post fence is just a bit hard for horses to see.. not much to the t-posts.. nor the wire..

For what it's worth.. I've seen field fence with 4x4 holes put just as meny.. or more horses down than a barb wire fence ( I've seen 1 horse that had been entangled in a barb wire fence... it got cut up good.. but lived. .. My horse, also was bought from a farm with a barb wire fence. Aside from some check marks on his face and neck from reaching thru... he's a pretty happy healthy horse /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif... Now.. the 4x4 fence.. I know of at least 2 horses that stepped thru a wire fence and got a hoof caught.. and cut most of the hoof off trying to get out.. both died. Incedentally.. I've also seen/read about locally where a board on a wood fence split and poped out a pointed end, and spear and kill a horse as well /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I think the key issue is training and visibility. My peremiter fence is 3-board black and woven 2x4 wire. Some of my cross fencing is nothing more than Plastic 'step-in' t-posts with 4 wire electrifiet 1/2" tape runners. The horses stay a good 2'-3' away from that 'flimsy' fence... etc.

Incedentally.. cows do a pretty good job about geting caught in barb wire fences as well. I've had to help neighbors take bolt cutters to wire entrapped cows before...

Soundguy

 

[MikePA]

There are many types of fences that are wrong for horses, barbed wire and 4 x 4 are two of them.

 

[mudcat]

Never understood why anyone would want a horse. Just get a motorcylce, you don't have to feed it every day, don't have to pay the vet and when your done with it you just put it up and forget about it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif It does make for an enjoyable topic when people are passionate about it.

 

[kensfarm]

"Gusto, our Paint got tangled in a strand of barb and almost cut his front left hoof off"

A friend from work had the same problem w/ her horse after her neighbor's had replaced a wood fence(on her property line) w/ high tensile.. I think she had to put it down.

 

[Foxpoint]

For the fence we built last year, we used a top rail of the 5" Centraur HTP Vinyl flex fence along with 4 strands of Centaur vinyl coated high tensile mounted on 5" pressure treated posts. We felt this was the best combination of price, visibility, and safety for our needs. We intend to have boarders so we went more conservative on the safety aspect. If I had the cash, I would have put in 4 strands of 5" flex fence. In my opinion, this is probably the safest way to go - if a horse hits it, they will just bounce off.

In central DE, the the vinyl coated high tensile is becoming very popular. In Pensylvania horse country (where the DuPont, Cambel Soup, Smith Kline Beechem Heirs live) the most popular fence is diamond mesh with a board on top for visibility / rigidity. Since money is no object to these people, my guess this is one of the safest set up.

That being said, there is no perfect horse fence - all types have their pro's and con's in regards to price, safety, maintenance, etc. We had a horse a couple of months ago get its leg wrapped around one of the strands of vinyl coated high tensile. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Don't ask me how she did it - the strands on our fence practically sing in the wind from the tension. Luckily she didn't struggle much and we had to cut the wire to get her out. She was sore for a couple days afterward but no worse for wear. The vinyl coated wire prevented it from digging into her. If it was the bare high tensile wire, she would have been cut up bad.

 

[Keith_B]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I think the biggest issue is that the possible outcome is that a horse may not see the fence.. charge thru it, become entangled in it, and then the barbs start cutting the horse.. the mor ethe horse struggles..

Addition of a hot wire will train horses to stay off fences, Braided tape and hot wires work well.. they are both visual and they 'train'.

I think the stereotypical 3-4 strand barb wire and t-post fence is just a bit hard for horses to see.. not much to the t-posts.. nor the wire..

Soundguy )</font>

Visibility isn't a big concern for horses when electricity is involved. I have roughly 20 acres or so fenced with two strands of electric fence, the old bare wire type. I have six horses and a small pony, and they simply do not bother the electric fence.

Horses are funny creatures, their senses are really sharp and they seem to sense the presence of the electricity. I have introduced new horses into the pasture, and they will come within two or three feet of the fence and go no closer, even though they are completely unfamiliar with the pasture.

No matter what kind of fence you choose, all you need to do is throw a strand of electric wire in it about 24-30 inches off the ground and the horses will not bother it. An electrified top wire will not prevent the horses from sticking their hooves through a 2X4 or 4X4 wire fence nearly as well as having the electric wire about 24-30 inches off the ground.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Visibility isn't a big concern for horses when electricity is involved. )</font>

Visibility is a concern for non-electrified fence.. as I pointed out. Electricity adds another aspect.. conditioning / training.... most animals don't like being shocked.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( An electrified top wire will not prevent the horses from sticking their hooves through a 2X4 or 4X4 wire fence )</font>

I'm trying to visualize haw a hoow would step thru a 2x4 fence. I've never seen that one... 4x4.. yes.. easilly.. and I've seen the dead horses to prove it... but 2x4 would seem to me to be a tad hard to step thru, as the hoof plain won't fit...

Soundguy

 

[Mark4510]

Hey Soundguy, I have seen a horse fire off a shot and get a hoof through cheap 2x4 but never the better stuff like RedBrand.

I think that Soundguy, MikePA, and others have seen my posts on equine fencing and know that I have pretty strong opinions of fencing based on the mistakes I have made and seen made, so no offense meant to anyone. Sharing knowledge is a good idea. To me, the best horse fence is like the one that wroughtnharv has in his post, steel pipe fence with good no climb but here is my recollection of my earlier post.

1. Steel pipe with no climb – Steel acts as a good fairly solid barrier so a horse wont charge through it. In most cases a horse can actually bounce off a steel fence with only bruises. The no climb (do a search on RedBrand No Climb) keeps feet from getting stuck. The steel pipe and no climb are also the best deterrents to rustling. And yes, it is far more common than most people know…….
2. No climb with hot wire and T posts – Same thing with the no climb as I said above. Just set good corners, stretch it tight and I would run a hot wire top and bottom. Also run a stand up steel post every 4-5 T posts to increase stiffness of the fence. Get some big PVC caps that slip over the exposed T post tops, fill it with construction adhesive and shove them over the top. In case the horse is a horse and hits the top of the T post you are less likely to have a vet bill.
3. 3-4 rail board with no climb – Same as the two above but, as mentioned, if a horse runs into a board fence it will shatter and can really tear up a horse with the pointed ends. If the wood is heavy it can be pretty good to keep the horses in including being a deterrent to rustlers.
4. 3-4 rail vinyl fence with no climb– Same as board fence but those rails can pop out pretty easily. If you want a nice looking fence but one that is also pretty horse safe then set up your vinyl fence, set ‘em in concrete, set steel pipe corners and then every 40’ set a vertical steel pipe. Set the corners and inline steel pipes 1” inside the vinyl and in concrete. Then set the no climb between the steel and vinyl, pull it tight from the corners, tie it off to the inline steel and between the inline steel pipes attach to they vinyl. Make sure you run hot wire around the inside.
5. 8-12 strand high tension steel wire – I actually like this set up. If the spacing is close on the wire and the tension is high, its very hard for a horse to get a hoof in between. I think it looks nice and neat and also keep the neighbors dogs that pack up from worrying the livestock.
6. Centaur vinyl coated multi wire fencing – sort of between multi strand high tension and vinyl. The Burbank equestrian center used this a number of years ago and all I can say is it does not hold its age well. It looked good new but they had to keep tightening it every year. It got to the point were they would have to pull it apart, reset the tighteners and then pull it again. It also does nothing to keep the dogs out and it’s easy for the horses to lean on it.
7. Rope/Tape electric fencing – Much like the Centaur fencing it does not stand up well over time. Gravity takes a toll on it. One of the little event centers in our area got talked into setting up the tape fence and I saw a couple of spooked horses literally run right through it. Fight or Flight is hard to overcome even if they know it’s hot.
8. Barb wire – For horses, it aint gonna happen if I can help it. Horses are just an accident looking for a place to happen. God made them grazers so fencing them with anything is creating problems. Having said that, any horse that is entrusted to my care deserves the best I can offer regardless if they are national caliber reined cow horse or a broke down rescued pasture ornament. I suspect the argument of barb wire is a little like the dispute I got into a couple of weeks ago with a local facility owner. They have about 30 horses on an exposed hill. No shade, small fenced pastures with only Star Thistle, watered once a day, flies in black clouds that worry them constantly, with weeks of 105+ degree days with the sun just beating down on them. The owners attitude was that horses all over have it worse than these horses so it’s not so bad. I don’t understand that attitude. Just because there are worse things does not mean that this is right.

So that’s my take….
Mark

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have seen a horse fire off a shot and get a hoof through cheap 2x4 but never the better stuff like RedBrand )</font>

Welded wire? I wouldn't keep anything but small dogs in welded wire.. you can't even stretch that stuff without breaking it.

I use the redbrand myself.. etc

Soundguy

 

[SkyPup]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( Also ask a vet how many thousands of horses are in a barbed wire fence now and have no trouble, as stated before any horse that will run into a fence can get hurt no matter what type. )</font>

Thanks for your opinion, I did graduate from the University of Florida vet school over twenty five years ago and have had horses all my life,

Remember - HORSES AND BARBED WIRE DO NOT MIX

Tell them your vet said so.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[SkyPup]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Never understood why anyone would want a horse. Just get a motorcylce, you don't have to feed it every day, don't have to pay the vet and when your done with it you just put it up and forget about it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif It does make for an enjoyable topic when people are passionate about it. )</font>

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've already got six motorcycles. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Farwell]

Mudcat,
Won't be much longer and it will cost more to feed a motorcycle than it does to feed a horse with the price of gas going up the way it is.
Farwell

 

[Panache]

But you don't have to feed the motorcycle if you arn't riding it.

 

[rtimgray]

Until I got on this forum, I had never heard of not using barb wire for horses. Practically everyone around here used barbed wire, 3-5 strands or woven wire topped (and sometimes bottomed) with barbed wire. We've had horses and donkeys for 30 years, always staying in barbed wire, and never had a problem...I guess either we're safe forever or we're due. Of course, I've heard some people say to only get on a horse from one side or the other, but nobody told our horses, cause we get on and off from either side. There are a fair amount of predators, coyotes and bobcats and wild dogs around here as well. You could always look at it that if the horse has little enough sense to get caught in the fence, maybe the herd needs to be thinned anyway.

I'm more inclined to go with the motorcycle or four wheeler than the horses too...but somehow, I've got five horses and no motorcycle...anybody want to trade?

 

[SkyPup]

No problem, you learn something new everyday, even if it takes you thirty or more years to get to that day.


Oh, BTW, motorcycles, ATVs, and barbed wire don't mix well either......it may take thirty or more years to understand that too but once it happens you'll understand it well right away. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Practically everyone around here used barbed wire, 3-5 strands or woven wire topped (and sometimes bottomed) with barbed wire. )</font>

For what it's worth, the horse farm i got 2 of my horses from also had 5- strand barbed wire fences.... other than some checking on the horses faces.. no other problems.. though.. as most state.. If I was putting up new fence.. i wouldn't go up with barb wire if it was for horses.

Also.. as for a top 'barb' wire over a woven fence.. that's pretty much ok... that's just a deterent for horses leaning over the fence.. not the same kind of problems encountered with an all 'stranded' wire fence.

Soundguy

 

[rtimgray]

I guess I can kind of understand horses getting into fences - haven't seen it and don't plan to change any of my fencing practices, but I'll take your educated word for it...

...but so far I have managed to keep tractors and trucks (never had an ATV or Motorcycle) out of fencelines, and I doubt it's good to run a motor vehicle (except maybe a dozer) into ANY kind of fence, right? I find five strands of barbed wire to be the most effective and cost-effective way to keep cows and horses home, and it works pretty good against trespassers. However, I do have some problems with deer tying the bottom strands down and lifting the middle strands up and tying them off...because I know the deer hunters wouldn't do it.