Loader FEL and 4WD

[ducks13]

Why do people consider 4WD so important if you are going to have a FEL? I understand that with the bucket full you have a lot of weight on the front but a box blade and perhaps wheel weight etc. on the back it should be counterbalanced fairly well. The reason I am asking is that 2WD with FEL's seem to be more readily available and more economical. It also seems to me that there were a lot of tractors with FEL before 4WD became so common that people were presumably happy with. How much of an adder would you expect to pay for 4WD on something like a 755, 855, 955?

 

[pdp11]

When you fill the bucket and lift it, the weight shifts off the rear tires. You tend to lose traction in the rears. I've operated 2WD tractors with an FEL and ballast weight on the 3PH, and I've not had any problem. But the 4WD on my 2520 does make it much easier, especially when trying to turn and maneuver with a load in the bucket.

 

[roger 4400]

Hi. I,ve own an Oliver 550, 42hp, 2wd for 10 years and was plowing my driveway with a 880 pounds cement block as a weight.
Now I have a 4wd Massey model 1643 (43 hp and same gross weight )AND I WOULD NEVER GO BACK, it is day and night. I now use a 550 pounds box blade as a counterweight and to give you an example, 2 days ago I tried to push snow with my buchet, it was 6 to 8 inches of snow, I put the bucket down and pushed my way, I stopped 200 feet farther and if I,d wanted, I could have stopped miles farther,,,,snow was coming over the hd bucket, high on the sides, but it was not stopping...my tires are r4 and working well....when you use a 4wd, you will never go back to 2wd. I could do my driveway before with a lot more slidding and back and forth but now it is a dream. Good luck. Roger.

 

[Baby Grand]

^ +1
Steering, especially at high turn angles, is much easier with 4WD as the front wheel try to pull the tractor in their direction. With 2WD at a high turn angle the fronts want to plow straight ahead.

 

[LD1]

Why do people consider 4WD so important if you are going to have a FEL? I understand that with the bucket full you have a lot of weight on the front but a box blade and perhaps wheel weight etc. on the back it should be counterbalanced fairly well. The reason I am asking is that 2WD with FEL's seem to be more readily available and more economical. It also seems to me that there were a lot of tractors with FEL before 4WD became so common that people were presumably happy with. How much of an adder would you expect to pay for 4WD on something like a 755, 855, 955?

If you have ever operated a FEL tractor with both 4wd and 2wd you would see the difference.

When you mention that their were a lot of 2wd tractors and FEL's before 4wd. Well, newer tractors are built a lot different. MUCH lighter and shorter wheelbases.

But the advantages of 4wd are endless. We have a 2wd JD 2040 with a FEL. It is old school tractor of the mid 70's. And it is heavier, bigger bucket, more lift, more power. And I can out work it hands down digging or moving piles of dirt. It hardly has traction to dig into anything. And once the loader is loaded, it can hardly get out and move around.

4WD also allows for all 4 wheels to help you stop in a pinch. Not so on a 2wd.

Also, a good majotiry of people buying CUT's and SCUT's are using them for snow removal. 4WD is MUCH better than 2WD.


And to your last statement, people were presumablly happy because they didn't know any different. And even a 2wd with a loader was better than a pitch fork and shovel. Things evolve. 80 years ago people were happy with a Ford model T. Would you be happy driving something like that as your daily driver???? (Not a restored peice, but something built to the specs of the day).

 

[TripleR]

There is a an old very long thread on here addressing this issue. I prefer 4WD, but may get a 2WD for our flatland farm.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/182437-front-end-loader-2wd-tractor.html

 

[TDVT]

Why do people consider 4WD so important if you are going to have a FEL? I understand that with the bucket full you have a lot of weight on the front but a box blade and perhaps wheel weight etc. on the back it should be counterbalanced fairly well. The reason I am asking is that 2WD with FEL's seem to be more readily available and more economical. It also seems to me that there were a lot of tractors with FEL before 4WD became so common that people were presumably happy with. How much of an adder would you expect to pay for 4WD on something like a 755, 855, 955?

I would say it really depends on where you live & the type of terrain you have.

When we bought a second tractor, the main criteria were a loader & 4WD, in that order. Our 8N did alot of stuff that needed doing but just adding a loader wasn't going to meet our needs (hi gearing, no power steering).

Traction-wise with the 8N, I ran chains all year & was OK 95% of the time. We have very hilly terrain & most areas around here have small, swampy sections that you can inadvertently wander into, so I got stuck a few times. But overall it pretty well both summer & winter (plowing).

With the 4WD, it will go more places, mow on steeper grades & is generally better suited to our hilly ground but can (will, has) get STUCK before you know what hit you. So you have to be more careful on unfamiliar ground.

If where I lived was flatter, I'd certainly consider 2WD.

The loader I couldn't do without.

 

[RalphVa]

Can't imagine not having 4wd on our hilly land here in Virginia, whether FEL or not.

If you have uneven ground, you gotta have 4wd and even an occasion use of diff lock. Got nothing too much to do with FEL. In snow, I gotta use my steering brakes. So, it doesn't matter whether the fronts are helping me to steer; in snow or ice or with the FEL pushing down or sometimes even on float, they fronts don't steer.

Ralph

 

[Don87]

You can do a lot with a 2 wheel drive tractor, and good ballast.

But you can do so much more, in a shorter period of time with a 4 wheel drive tractor.

 

[Jay4200]

Why do people consider 4WD so important if you are going to have a FEL? I understand that with the bucket full you have a lot of weight on the front but a box blade and perhaps wheel weight etc. on the back it should be counterbalanced fairly well. The reason I am asking is that 2WD with FEL's seem to be more readily available and more economical. It also seems to me that there were a lot of tractors with FEL before 4WD became so common that people were presumably happy with. How much of an adder would you expect to pay for 4WD on something like a 755, 855, 955?

I did a lot of loader work moving dirt/gravel/loam this summer. Without 4WD engaged, I did more rear-wheel spinning than driving. If the ground was just a little too soft, or just a little too hard, I couldn't get the bucket to dig into a dirt pile w/o 4WD - the tractor would just stop when the blade hit the dirt.

I do not have loaded rear tires, but I don't think that they would make a whole lot of difference - I was counterbalanced with a Woods 9' subframe backhoe that weighs a couple thou. I did some work later w/o the backhoe attached (just a landscape rake on the back) and dirt work was all but impossible in 2WD, regardless of soil conditions.

JayC

 

[ENTS]

Here's something I discovered (and came out w/o incident) -- Had my TC40 w/ FEL for a couple of months. Taking a bucket full down a rather step dirt road I suddenly found myself excelerating. Stomped on the brakes with no effect. The only way I saved self and tractor was to drop the bucket. Diagnosis of problem was this, I was in 2WD with heavy load on front. No counter weight on rear thus lifting the rear up which caused lose of traction (engine no help in slowing down) and brakes useless. From that point on I went down any hill, with or without a load, in 4WD.

 

[RadarTech]

I've got a 4wd tractor with a loader.
On several occasions I've put it in 2wd mode.
Learned real quick not to dig in 2wd!
It just is too rough on the equipment, and me!

 

[k0ua]

Sure you can do a lot with a 2WD tractor with a loader. I scraped up tons of dirt up and made a large berm for my shooting range several years ago with a Long 2360 . But the ground was fairly flat (gently rolling) and the tractor was a full size heavy AG tractor with loaded tires and a heavy mower on the rear. You can do a lot, BUT you can do a lot more with a 4WD tractor. and if it is hilly or wet, you can do it with a 4WD tractor, and you just cant do much with a 2WD under bad conditions. If you have a light 2WD tractor with a loader I cannot imagine getting much done with it, where a 4WD light small tractor will do a lot. Just try pushing in to an old hard dirt pile or scraping up undisturbed soil with a small light 2WD tractor and you will see first hand what I am saying.
James K0UA

 

[bigbull338]

years ago 2wd drive tractors was your only choice.an yes they would get stuck quick with a bale of hay on the loader.they would sink like a rock.but in the mid 90s 4x4 tractor took holt an they have never let go.now every1 is buying 4x4 tractors,an trading in 2wd drive tractors.my kub salesmen told me that they rarely sale a new 2 wd drive tractor because every1 buys the 4x4s.4x4 tractors ride on top of the mudd as best they can.

 

[herringchoker]

You can do a lot with a 2 wheel drive tractor, and good ballast.

But you can do so much more, in a shorter period of time with a 4 wheel drive tractor.

I agree with Don. I've been there and done both.....I'll keep my 4x4 thank you.:thumbsup:

 

[dave1949]

I did a lot of loader work moving dirt/gravel/loam this summer. Without 4WD engaged, I did more rear-wheel spinning than driving. If the ground was just a little too soft, or just a little too hard, I couldn't get the bucket to dig into a dirt pile w/o 4WD - the tractor would just stop when the blade hit the dirt.

I do not have loaded rear tires, but I don't think that they would make a whole lot of difference - I was counterbalanced with a Woods 9' subframe backhoe that weighs a couple thou. I did some work later w/o the backhoe attached (just a landscape rake on the back) and dirt work was all but impossible in 2WD, regardless of soil conditions.

JayC

That's been my experience too. With BH on 2wd will get by, with it off, forget about pushing into anything very solid/heavy with the FEL. That's with loaded R4 tires too. Ags might get a little bit better grip, but basically it's about the weight of CUT tractors.
Dave.

 

[ducks13]

Well, at the price and availabilty of what looks like a nice 2WD 755 . . . and after listening to everyone I think I will hold out for a 4WD! I have some very steep terain and it is wet a lot of the tiime here in NC.

Thanks for your help

 

[Gordon Gould]

Why do people consider 4WD so important if you are going to have a FEL? I understand that with the bucket full you have a lot of weight on the front but a box blade and perhaps wheel weight etc. on the back it should be counterbalanced fairly well. The reason I am asking is that 2WD with FEL's seem to be more readily available and more economical. It also seems to me that there were a lot of tractors with FEL before 4WD became so common that people were presumably happy with. How much of an adder would you expect to pay for 4WD on something like a 755, 855, 955?

I can't answer your question but I can say that I would pay what they asked for 4WD without blinking an eye because of all the reasons previously given by others plus my own experience working in hilly rough terrain and dealing with winter. For me it's the only way to go.

 

[ducks13]

Seems to be about a $3K adder on a 755 or 855 based on what I find on Machine Finder and Tractor House. That is almost a 50% adder but everyone, including me now, seem to think it is worth it.

 

[csholler]

"If your not making any mistakes then your not doing anything"

Gordan Gould, I really like this!

As for yhe FEL I have loaded, and dug, and moved thousands and thousands of yards of dirt in my short time. Every piece of equipment we have with a FEL now has 4 wheel drive. We have done a lot of work with two wheel drive machines but the stability, power , and control of 4 wheel drive makes it a no brainer to us. The only time we dont have 4 wheel drive engaged is when we are roading from one place to the next.