favourite stick rod

[JB4310]

On the whole AC vs DC thing, yes DC is nice, but a necessity hardly. I have a nice 500 amp Diesel engine driven welder sitting in my shop, it welds very smooth and is a joy to use. However, around the shop for 95% of the stick welding I do I use my old Lincoln 225-AC. It's easier than pulling the engine drive welder out, starting it up, having to listen to it run etc. And with years of practice IMO the difference in weld quality between the two is minimal.


To the OP, as I mentioned before, I use Lincoln 7018AC rods (for both of the aforementioned machines) and they work great. As with any 7018's they take a lot of amps to run compared to other rods. Don't hesitate to try them and with enough practice they'll probably become one of your favorite rods for an AC machine. Just make sure they are good and dry, even a tiny bit of dampness makes 7018's all but worthless.

IMO these welds don't look too bad for an AC machine (1/8" 7018AC, 135amps):

I agree, I only had ac for over 20 years and I got by just fine, I never even knew what the numbers meant for the first 10 years, and would use what ever rod I could find or steal, talk about baptism by fire

My weld rarely looked as good as yours but nothing I ever welded failed ever, even over the road 8K LB GVW utility trailers.

I've got an AC/DC thunderbolt now for the last 2 years, I wont go back to ac, but it sustained me for all those years.

I'll add that from my experience, there is very little (visible to me) difference in weld quality when using 7024 on AC or DC.

The first thing I noticed when I went to DC was that sweet sweet sound
Wasn't as easy as I imagined using DC, still have to think about what your doing, but at least you take all that crackling, spattering crap out of the equation.

No matter what, I always stick the 7018 for a few seconds to warm it /dry it and have never had an issue with dampness. I do store my rods in an aluminum ice chest cooler that has a 40 watt bulb in it and the bulb is on all the time.

Stored like that I doubt your rods are anything but dry. when you say stick the rod, do you me low amp short to warm and dry??

I've heard that before and have to remember to try it next time Because I don't dry mine like your supposed to.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!

JB

 

[SPYDERLK]

remember.. for a given population, of X, there will be X+1 opinions ...

soundguy

I am of two minds on that. ... Somebodys gotta volunteer.:confused3:
larry

 

[Chilly807]

What qualities do they lose with the dampness? I bought a 1lb box of 7018 to try and they weren't even in plastic. Just a pound of rod in an unsealed cardboard box.

Ian

I'll probably get burned replying to this, but here's my take on it. The 7018 is a "low-hydrogen" rod, in that it gives off very little hydrogen gas when it's burned due to the type of coating. With certain types of steel, such as higher carbon, higher strength material, hydrogen exposure during welding or heat treating can make the metal brittle, known as "hydrogen embrittlement". When a 7018 gets damp, the hydrogen gas in the water molecules is vapourized as you weld, and you can have this problem.

I've used 7018 a bit, mine are kept quite dry as well as being roasted at 600-700 F for an hour when I get them. I don't usually weld high strength steel, so it's not a real concern for me. I have no idea what they weld like when they're damp, as far as striking and sustaining an arc goes.

Sean

 

[Shield Arc]

I can't tell you how many times I've poured water out of a can of 7018 because some carpenter type left the lid of the gang box open during a rain storm. I'd just stick the rod under my left armpit grab a hold of it with the stinger, stick the rod to the base material, and watch the water boil out of the rod! Then go at it. If you're doing single pass welds I wouldn't get too caught up in the heated rod ordeal. Now of course this was not on any code work, just bridge / overpass falsework.

 

[jake98]

There he goes, bashin the carpenters again.. why didn't you get your own gang-box??
ps is that why weldors all smell like fried arm-pits? :laughing:

 

[Shield Arc]

ps is that why weldors all smell like fried arm-pits? :laughing:

Only time you'd get shocked putting the rod under your arm is if you were soaking wet, because you couldn't find your rain coat.

 

[Chilly807]

These are from today, using 1/8" 7014 @ 120 amps DCEP. One piece is 1/2", the other is 1/4" plate, part of a snatch block project I'm working on. 120 amps is what the welder says, it may be actually a little higher or lower.

 

[k0ua]

Looks good Sean:thumbsup:

James K0UA

 

[Shield Arc]

Those do look nice!:thumbsup:


I'm sure you could give a rat's azz less about my opinion, but I'll give it to ya anyway. I try to never to stop on the corner like that, I would much rather stop in the center of a weld zone. It's a structural thing!

 

[deereman75]

Very nice welds:thumbsup: Makes mine look like crap. (not hard to do)

 

[LD1]

These are from today, using 1/8" 7014 @ 120 amps DCEP. One piece is 1/2", the other is 1/4" plate, part of a snatch block project I'm working on. 120 amps is what the welder says, it may be actually a little higher or lower.

Very nice.:thumbsup: I dont think those are going to be comming back appart:thumbsup:

I seem to be one of only a few that like 7014 around here. Why was that your choice if you dont mind my asking?

 

[gwdixon]

These are from today, using 1/8" 7014 @ 120 amps DCEP. One piece is 1/2", the other is 1/4" plate, part of a snatch block project I'm working on. 120 amps is what the welder says, it may be actually a little higher or lower.

Are you going to leave it with a single pass of 7014 or did you cover a 6011 (6010) root pass.

My experience is that snatch blocks endure a tremendous amount of force. It would be tempting to put at least a couple more passes on it.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I am a pretty darn good welder and I try to never put just one pass on anything structural. I would have put one light 6010 root, then at least a 2 bead cap with 7018 rather than one large single pass. From the photo, it appears that he as at least a solid 1/4" fillet weld and the bottom plate is stated as 1/4" thick so more weld will not do anything for strength. The 1/4" fillet all around is sufficient for the thickness of plate it is welded too.
I am not a fan of 7014 or 7024. I think they make very pretty welds even for a beginner but I found them to be easily broken. I have to admit that I havent used them since 1974 when I worked briefly in a shop making wire pulling equipment for high lines. The shop foreman loved the 7014 because it was pretty and easy to weld with. I remember once that the shop foreman was fitting up a 1" thick lug and my brother in law (also a very good welder) had welded it out with 3 full passes all the way around with 1/8" 7014 rod. The foreman realized then that it was not located in the right spot. My BIL took a 4 pound shop hammer and hit it twice and it broke clean and sailed across the shop. The weld was solid with no slag or porosity in it, just a brittle weld. I have not used it ever again in my career as a welder. Did use some 7024 jetrod a few times on heavy structural steel, didnt like the way they ran. You could weld a long flat weld bead and everything look good when welding, but chip off the slag and it would be hollow in the middle with nothing but slag and a weld bead on each side. I will stick with my 7018.
I just finished welding up some stabilizer pads on a JD 310 backhoe that my barn addition contractor has. Three or the 4 inside tips were broken off and I rebuilt them with some weld metal build up and two with addition of flat bar. One got slightly warped in welding and I had to adjust it with a 16# hammer. The weld held without any indication of cracking on the cast steel pad. Next I am going to weld some cleats to the smooth bottom to keep the pads from sliding. Gonna use some more 7018. Hopefully he likes the work and wont charge me for the little extra's I am putting in on the shop addition. This saved him $600 for new ones.

 

[JB4310]

There is enough contact are that I doubt it could ever come apart. The welds and surrounding surfaces look so clean it almost looks like mig

But 120 amps with 1/8" rod on 1/2" plate seems low to me, part of the weld looks like good penetration but some does not. This is assuming it's a single pass? like I said though even subjected to abuse I don't think it would fail, due the total amount of surface area welded.

If that were me with 1/8" 7018, I would probably be somewhere close to 140-150 amps, then you will see the penetration.

Like you mentioned though we are never sure how accurate our dials are, I actually do suspect mine reads higher than actual. That or my old welder read lower, cause they definitely don't corelate.

Just an amateur's opinion,
JB

 

[Shield Arc]

Hopefully he likes the work and wont charge me for the little extra's I am putting in on the shop addition. This saved him $600 for new ones.

Don't bet on it Gary. Years ago I took a drive line in to be shortened, and balanced. The owner had just bought a new Mig welder, but couldn't get it to run right. I told him I'd played with a few, if he wanted I could see if I could figure it out. He replied by all means please! With in a few minutes I had the machine just purring. The guy was floored, he was about to return the machine. He still charged me the quoted price!:laughing:

 

[Chilly807]

Those do look nice!:thumbsup:


I'm sure you could give a rat's azz less about my opinion, but I'll give it to ya anyway. I try to never to stop on the corner like that, I would much rather stop in the center of a weld zone. It's a structural thing!

I agree about the corners, I have a hard time making the transition from one line to another without making a mess of it.

Sean

 

[Chilly807]

Very nice.:thumbsup: I dont think those are going to be comming back appart:thumbsup:

I seem to be one of only a few that like 7014 around here. Why was that your choice if you dont mind my asking?

I have 7014, 7018, and 6011 on hand, I normally use the 7014 for clean, new material. The 6011 gets used if I can't get it clean, and the 7018 for higher carbon stuff.

I like the way the 7018 welds, but I find it finicky for re-starts and having to keep it dry is a nuisance. I used it for a while, but I usually pick 7014 most days.

The 7014 practically runs by itself, I find the 1/8 rod works really well with my old AC/DC Sears machine for some reason.

Sean

 

[Shield Arc]

I never seen any 7014 on a heavy civil job, don't think I ever heard of it until joining these forums. So I can't say I ever ran any until a few months ago! But WOW! :laughing:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/211905-7014-break-test.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/207094-oh-baby-where-you-been.html

 

[Chilly807]

There is enough contact are that I doubt it could ever come apart. The welds and surrounding surfaces look so clean it almost looks like mig

But 120 amps with 1/8" rod on 1/2" plate seems low to me, part of the weld looks like good penetration but some does not. This is assuming it's a single pass? like I said though even subjected to abuse I don't think it would fail, due the total amount of surface area welded.

If that were me with 1/8" 7018, I would probably be somewhere close to 140-150 amps, then you will see the penetration.

Like you mentioned though we are never sure how accurate our dials are, I actually do suspect mine reads higher than actual. That or my old welder read lower, cause they definitely don't corelate.

Just an amateur's opinion,
JB

I'm another amateur welder, so don't feel like you're alone here Thanks for the compliment about MIG, I wish my MIG welds turned out like these.

According to ProStar's application chart, the 1/8 7014 is designed for 100-150 amps, with 120 being optimum. Their 1/8 7018 can be run over a slightly wider range from 90-160 amps, again with 120 as optimum.

I may be wrong in my thinking, but I usually try to set my current to run the particular type and size of rod I'm using.

I look more at the toes of the weld to see if I'm getting good penetration, to me high toes mean the weld is cold. Undercut and excessive spatter/glowing rods means too much heat on the other side of the equation.

I choose the rod size based on material thickness. I try to use 3/32 for anything under 1/4 inch steel, and 1/8 for anything heavier. My welder is limited at 140 amps, so material prep and multiple passes has to take place on heavier stuff. Not much call for me to weld anything over 1/2 inch plate.

As an example, if I try to run 1/8 rods on 1/8 plate, in order to make them run well the current setting is high enough that I have trouble with burn-through. 3/32 works a lot better for me on thin stock.

I'd sooner match the rod to the material and run it at the right heat for it to work well.

I've almost stopped "weaving" welds these days, unless it's non-critical and I've got a big space to fill in. Weaving hides a lot of sins IMO. Running a slower hotter puddle and letting it do the work seems to be working better.

Sean

 

[Gary Fowler]

IMO, telling someone that they should be running such and such rod at XXX amps or that running at certain amps is too cold or too hot is nonsense. Every machine I have ever used (and that is a lot), the dial is never the same but close enough to start with. One machine might run 1/8" 7018 at 95 amps on the dial while someone elses might be set a 150 and both weld the same. For instance, my Miller runs 3/32 7018 fine at 75 amps and is perfect for 1/8" at about 105 although I can run much hotter if I want. You have to set the machine so it burns the rod correctly. You should be able to start the rod without excessive sticking (rods will stick occassionally even if it is 50 amps too hot to weld with), rods should burn in sufficient for good penetration and properly fuse all edges without cold lap or undercut. If it is too high amperage, you may see undercut, excessive buckshot and even the rod melting out of the holder prior to getting more than 2/3 of the rod used. My advice is that when someone says set your machine at so and so amps, just take that with a grain of salt as your machine might be way off from that. For newbies to welding, that may be a good starting point but dont expect to have to keep it there if you cant make the weld look good. You will you learn where the controls on the machine weld best with a little practice, that is what the dial is for, adjust it to get best performance. With a properly set machine, you should be able to weld without full dress leather gear to keep the sparks off.