F215 hydraulic pump problems

[DarinRay]

Hello All,

I need some help with my F215 that I have. The problem is that when you start the tractor it sounds like the pump is cavitating and the 3 pt hitch is slow and jerky. BUT if I use the tilting cylinder on the 3 pt the pump noise goes away and 3pt hitch moves quicker and no jerky on the tilting cylinder. ?????? If it was the pump it would do it all the time yes? I've siliconed the suction side of the pump thinking that the oring could be bad but no change. When i changed the oil and filter when first running the machine there is no noise or jerky motion on the 3 pt. If it was in the 3pt hitch valving wouldn't it do it all the time? Boy I am confused. I've cleaned teh suction strainer 3 times just in case and the last 2 times there wasn't hardly anything on there. The first time it was slimy grey non metallic fillings. maybe pump material??? What do you guys think the next steps are?

Darin

 

[nostep]

I do not know Yanmar pumps at all, but in general I have this question. Did you recently replace or add to the fluid just before the problem started? The reason I ask is there are hydraulic systems out there that are sensitive to too much fuild and it'll get airated.

Just a thought.

 

[DarinRay]

No I actually started playing around with it when it started acting up. I've tried more oil but not less. hmmmm. I know actually when I was on the back hill that is very steep there was a mound that took me steeper and the noise stopped for a bit.

Darin

 

[Gary Fowler]

My 4220D has the same problem. It started with the suction screen stopped up with slimy green gray material with just a speck or two of metallic particles. I changed the oil and cleaned the screen 3 times and the last time it was clean. The first two times it came out with green slim and black goo completely covering the screen. The filters were also changed out 3 times. THe pump makes no excess noise, but the 3 PH hesitates to lift then lifts really slow. The FEL jerks as it comes slowly up. It will eventually pick up a fair load, but it is very slow and erratic. I am thinking that if must be the pump somehow. Can anyone who has had this problem and determined a fix please help us out. I priced a pump and it is $400 so I would like to avoid that cost unless that is the real culprit. Everything worked perfect till the strainer stopped up the first time.
It does seem to work a little better as it gets up to running temperature, but still has a jerky action.

 

[DarinRay]

Another thing I was wondering is if anyone has had trouble with the hydraulic filter mount internals? The check valve is good if you want to change the filter without draining the system but maybe that is giving the restriction. ?????

When my pump noise stops when I use the tilting cylinder on the 3pt maybe that is telling me that when not in use the return path through the valve is block. hmmmmmmmm. I sure don't want to spend the $400 for a pump and then find that it wasn't that.

Come on hydraulic or tractor guys we need your brains.

Darin

 

[nostep]

Does this sound reasonable (not totally understanding the circuit in this case). When the 3pt is not being operated, there should be a open path from the pump back to the tank. When a loader is added, that path is diverted through the loaders controls, then through the 3pt controls, then back to tank. If there is a restriction in any of the controls (3pt or loader), that would make the pump work harder and you'd hear it. If you were operating the loader and the noise went away, that may be because you've opened up a slightly better path to tank, through the cylinder (in essence). The 3pt would even work better in that case since the loader controls were not blocking the path any longer. Can you check system pressure when controls are not being operated? If there is high pressure, then you have a restriction somewhere (probably loader controls).

P.S. Flow could actually go through 3pt first, then to outside devices, but the problem would still be the same.

 

[EFC]

Hello All,

I need some help with my F215 that I have. The problem is that when you start the tractor it sounds like the pump is cavitating and the 3 pt hitch is slow and jerky. BUT if I use the tilting cylinder on the 3 pt the pump noise goes away and 3pt hitch moves quicker and no jerky on the tilting cylinder. ?????? If it was the pump it would do it all the time yes? I've siliconed the suction side of the pump thinking that the oring could be bad but no change. When i changed the oil and filter when first running the machine there is no noise or jerky motion on the 3 pt. If it was in the 3pt hitch valving wouldn't it do it all the time? Boy I am confused. I've cleaned teh suction strainer 3 times just in case and the last 2 times there wasn't hardly anything on there. The first time it was slimy grey non metallic fillings. maybe pump material??? What do you guys think the next steps are?

Darin

When you replaced the spin on filter which model and # did you use? What is the temp in your area? Which oil did you use in the trans?

Buck

 

[DarinRay]

On my tractor when I start the girl it always makes a cavitating noise unless I use the rear tilting cylinder (top and tilt) on the 3 point hitch then it goes away. When I stop that movement the noise comes back. I have not swapped anything because it does this when the tractor just runs. Not sure what to think.

Darin

Could you perhaps explain what is happening again? Is there an issue (noise or otherwise) when using just one function. Did you try anything, like swapping the two functions (tip versus lift)? Explain it again slowely.

 

[1danny]

Another thing I was wondering is if anyone has had trouble with the hydraulic filter mount internals? The check valve is good if you want to change the filter without draining the system but maybe that is giving the restriction. ?????

When my pump noise stops when I use the tilting cylinder on the 3pt maybe that is telling me that when not in use the return path through the valve is block. hmmmmmmmm. I sure don't want to spend the $400 for a pump and then find that it wasn't that.

Come on hydraulic or tractor guys we need your brains.

Darin

Using the OEM filter or an aftermarket filter?

Danny

 

[DarinRay]

When you replaced the spin on filter which model and # did you use? What is the temp in your area? Which oil did you use in the trans?

Buck

The first time I changed it I used a NAPA cross over number but am not sure what it was. After this change the unit didn't make a noise and everything worked SMOOTH for about 15 mins. Then the sound came back and jerky motion. So then I order it from Hoye Tractor and this is where we sit now with their filter. I used the Napa equivalent in the green and yellow 5 gal. The right oil was listed on this Napa oil. Keep in mind that this happened in the Spring, Summer, Fall, and now Winter. I don't hardly use this tractor and that's why it's happen through out the year.

I am wondering if when the suction strainer in the tranny area clogged up maybe this starved the pump for too long and did internal damage. Oh wait it was good right after a change of filter. Oh man it's a circle.

Darin

 

[DarinRay]

Does this sound reasonable (not totally understanding the circuit in this case). When the 3pt is not being operated, there should be a open path from the pump back to the tank. When a loader is added, that path is diverted through the loaders controls, then through the 3pt controls, then back to tank. If there is a restriction in any of the controls (3pt or loader), that would make the pump work harder and you'd hear it. If you were operating the loader and the noise went away, that may be because you've opened up a slightly better path to tank, through the cylinder (in essence). The 3pt would even work better in that case since the loader controls were not blocking the path any longer. Can you check system pressure when controls are not being operated? If there is high pressure, then you have a restriction somewhere (probably loader controls).

P.S. Flow could actually go through 3pt first, then to outside devices, but the problem would still be the same.

I think you are on the right path with this. I need to get a pressure reading and see where things go bad. Thanks a bunch all for the input.

Darin

 

[nostep]

Is there an easy way to remove the hoses to the loader (bypass close to the pump)? That would seperate the problem for further thoughts.

 

[DarinRay]

I actually don't have a loader on mine. I am going to have to get in back in the garage and tear the thing apart.

Darin

 

[YanmarFever]

I think Buck is on the right track with the filter advice.

Heres what I would do first, and its cheap.

I would drain all the hyd fluid and check the bottom of the machine for sludge, yes SLUDGE. We have had a few tractors that had 3/4" of grey green sludge on the bottom, which caused the same symptoms you described on the hill.

Drain the system.
Check for sludge with a probe & flashlight.
Flush it out with diesel fuel.
Buy an OEM filter from Danny.
Put new fluid in, and cross your fingers

I have had a few tractors, that were really dirty inside, it takes a bit of work to get the sludge out,but the results are worth it.

Good luck.

 

[Gary Fowler]

With the exception of the noise, I have the same problem as Darin. The gray/green slime and some black jelly looking crap completely stopped up the screen twice. It starved the pump completely the first time, and I didnt realize that I had a screen also. When the tractor started to stop shifting, I knew the hydraulics had a problem. So I changed oil and filter and it still wouldnt work. I let it run for an hour or so thinking the pump just wasnt repriming after the oil change and it would not work. I found out on this forum about the screen and the location. Yanked it out, cleaned it and it worked for a day and stopped again, Cleaned again and it worked but jerky and slow. I drained the oil, replaced the filter and cleaned the screen, a third time but it had no blockage this last time, however the oil turned a greenish color within only a few hours of running. I think the slime must be clay particles from the rice fields of Japan and Oil doesnt seem to flush it out very well.
Sorry for such a long write, but I have read where others had the same problem and if anyone can tell me what the final fix was, please do.

 

[DarinRay]

Thanks again guys. I am going to have to deal with this soon but right now I'm working on my bulldozers instead. Poor girl has to sit outside in the snow and cold.

Darin

 

[lens12]

Napa does not have a cross for the OEM Yanmar filter. I had them call their filter people to see if there was one they would recommend. They said they did not have one meeting the Yanmar specs & would not recommend one. I have ordered filters from a source that said they had the filter, but they were not the OEM ones & I won't sell them to anyone. I've had customers use will fit filters & starve their hydraulic pump enough to wreck the pump. I have OEM filters that I order from Japan , but they are not cheap, but they are cheaper than buying a will fit filter & a new pump.

 

[DarinRay]

Napa does not have a cross for the OEM Yanmar filter. I had them call their filter people to see if there was one they would recommend. They said they did not have one meeting the Yanmar specs & would not recommend one. I have ordered filters from a source that said they had the filter, but they were not the OEM ones & I won't sell them to anyone. I've had customers use will fit filters & starve their hydraulic pump enough to wreck the pump. I have OEM filters that I order from Japan , but they are not cheap, but they are cheaper than buying a will fit filter & a new pump.

The first time i changed the filter and oil I bought the OEM filter from Hoye Tractor. When I received the filter I put it in service and then after a couple minutes it started acting up again so i thought i would change it again but took the OEM number off the filter and my Napa crossed it right over. ?????? Dang i sure wish I would have keep the darn number off the OEM filter.

What is your OEM filter number? Also how much? Talk to you again and thanks for the reply.

darin

 

[EFC]

The first time I changed it I used a NAPA cross over number but am not sure what it was. After this change the unit didn't make a noise and everything worked SMOOTH for about 15 mins. Then the sound came back and jerky motion. So then I order it from Hoye Tractor and this is where we sit now with their filter. I used the Napa equivalent in the green and yellow 5 gal. The right oil was listed on this Napa oil. Keep in mind that this happened in the Spring, Summer, Fall, and now Winter. I don't hardly use this tractor and that's why it's happen through out the year.

I am wondering if when the suction strainer in the tranny area clogged up maybe this starved the pump for too long and did internal damage. Oh wait it was good right after a change of filter. Oh man it's a circle.

Darin

I will try this question one more time....

When you replaced the spin on filter which model and # did you use? What is the temp in your area? Which oil did you use in the trans?

Buck

 

[DarinRay]

I will try this question one more time....

When you replaced the spin on filter which model and # did you use? What is the temp in your area? Which oil did you use in the trans?

Buck

Hello Buck,

I thought I actually answered these questions already. Oops..

spin on filter was ordered from Hoye Tractor OEM I think and don't know what one it was.

The temp has been hot and cold because this problem has been happening since last Spring so it's been 0 degrees up to 90 degrees. Same problem

Used Napa yellow and green universal trans and hyd fluid 5 gal that is oil equivalent to the JD303 oil.

Thanks for your help.

Darin