equipment emissions (EPA) ended

[Snobdds]

I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, born in Palo Alto in 1956. Up until I left when I was 22 the view of the surrounding hills was much like what your pictures show of your place. People would remark about how you could see the hills on the rare days when you could. The pollution is now much less than it was. I fail to understand why anybody would want to go back to the days of no pollution controls.
Eric

Carburetors' were mainly the cause of the smog due to poor thermal dynamics and not properly burning ALL the fuel at the optimal thermal temperature. This goes for diesels now too. It's amazing how well and complete fuel burns when the thermal mass around the combustion chamber is around 200*.

So nobody will be going back to the days of smog if we get rid of DPS, EGR's, or SCR's. Modern technology and better understanding of efficiencies have us in a place where we would be ok with just normal engines with modern technology.

 

[etpm]

I think that many, myself included, would like to see things rolled back to logical levels of control.

There's no reason to keep going way past the point of diminishing returns, other than to be able to brag about having done it.

Wait until you develop adult onset asthma at age 69. Primary culprit air pollution.
Eric

 

[GrandpaSmurf825]

" It didn't matter what flavor they were. It's literally cost billions and everyone pays for it in the end.


You sure did that.

However, saying something doesn't make it so, now does it? Neither does "stating" something.

You start off using the royal 'we' without identifying just who 'we' was (or is).

Likewise you offer no links to back up any of your assertions (statements) ranging from the Economic ("literally costing Billions"), through the Mechanical and Engineering to Physics ("pretty clear exhaust while working" - as if the clarity or transparency of a gas correlates to its impact upon one's health: e.g. "Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas, making it impossible to detect with human senses."

Everyone's entitled to their opinion - you included. But stray too far from verifiable factual information and yours may appear to have been extracted from a place where the sun didn't shine.

I challenge you then since you want facts. You can spend maybe 2 minutes searching Google and find that there are lot's and lot's of issues with emissions related engine problems. Walk into any heavy truck repair and ask how many of the repairs they have in the shop are dealing with emissions problems. Figure it out yourself. Besides it's not an opinion when it's first hand(dirty hands) experience. What is your experience?

I actually do have diesel exhaust experience too since you ask. We had "smoke tests" that were performed on all locomotives rebuilt with fresh engines. It's called opacity testing. So yes I know what was required to pass that test. What excessive smoke looked like etc.

As info a gasoline engine typically generates more CO than a diesel engine does.

Do Diesel Engines Produce Less CO2 Than Regular Engines?

Mr. Green emits the answer

www.sierraclub.org

Common Freightliner Problems & Repair Costs | Expert Guide 2025

Expert breakdown of common Freightliner problems, symptoms, causes, and accurate repair costs for all models.

waynetruck.com

If you want to discuss specific engines I'm happy to go further into it. I'm referring to engines that are in the trenches working everyday. Not your daily driver pickup that you tow twice a year with. I see that others have started commenting with their "opinions" because if they don't have a spreadsheet to share it can't be fact.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I'm referring to engines that are in the trenches working everyday. Not your daily driver pickup that you tow twice a year with.

Using a diesel pickup as a car is apparently a big part of the problem with the later emission setups. At least with Rams.

There are plenty of people with such issues, but it seems like it's by far mostly the "car" people that has them. Meanwhile, those who constantly do tow are routinely putting 400K to 500K on theirs without any problems.

Ram (thankfully) built them to work, but unfortunately they don't always work quite as well for "posing".

 

[rontaki]

I grew up in the SF Bay Area before pollution controls on cars were mandated, and remember the ring of brown smog on the horizon. The first wave of pollution controls crippled an engine's power, and probably didn't do much to clean things up. After manufacturers designed cars to run cleaner, catalytic converters, etc., the skies were noticably clearer and the stench of unburnt gas was mostly gone. You could tell if there was an older car ahead of you by smell alone. That's where regulations should have stayed, but lawmakers gotta justify their existence somehow, and we ended up in this mess.
The good things about the emissions regs is that automakers woke up and ran with it, and have developed engines that are not only cleaner, but also more efficient and powerful, needing less maintenance as well.
All fine until they had to chase that last fraction of a percent of emissions output at the cost of everything else.
At this point, they would be uncompetitive with older technology. So I don't worry about rolling back the excessive and stupid regs.

 

[rontaki]

The days the streetlight never turned off…

Where I live now in the Sierra foothills, we had to evacuate due to a large wildfire (Jones fire, 2020). Members of our party in different cars agreed to meet at a local brewpub. Naturally, I wanted/needed a cold one. It was there I found an appropriate brew called - Under An Orange Sky. I still like that, even under a blue sky. Good pizza, too.

 

[Mcdust]

"All federal greenhouse gas emission standards for vehicles and engines subsequent to the 2009 declaration will be rescinded, a source familiar with the situation said."

Will we ever get rid of ethanol? It was proven to be less "green" than straight gas by the scientific community , yet the corn lobby and pols push on. I have to drive two states over to get non E for my antique cars, boats, and equipment. Disgusted in taxachussetts.

 

[rontaki]

Will we ever get rid of ethanol? It was proven to be less "green" than straight gas by the scientific community , yet the corn lobby and pols push on. I have to drive two states over to get non E for my antique cars, boats, and equipment. Disgusted in taxachussetts.

I used to buy ethanol-free avgas for my yardtoy small engines, as that was the only reasonable way to buy it. They ran fine, season-to-season with no problems. Then the nannies in power decided to put a stop to that, so now not available in 4Qfornia except in cans that only corrupt politicians can afford. I'll have to exercise my feeble power at the polls to try and put an end to this stupid madness.

 

[WinterDeere]

Wait until you develop adult onset asthma at age 69. Primary culprit air pollution.
Eric

I'd be seeking a second opinion there, Eric, or at least be sure your doctor knows you have an affinity for ancient pre-emissions tractors.

Your issue is more likely hereditary, or due to your own localized activities, than regional air pollution due to vehicular emissions. Let's face it, Whidbey Island ain't exactly downtown Manhattan or even Los Angeles. Given the antique tractors listed in your profile, it's almost certain you're exposed to far more airborne particulate from your own tractoring, than regional air pollution.

So why complain about emissions control rollbacks, when you're driving old pre-emissions tractors yourself, and breathing in all that localized exhaust? Why don't you upgrade those old machines with something built this century, with at least a basic DPF?

<-- lifelong asthmatic. I traded my last non-DPF machine in 6 years ago, and really appreciate the difference, when the exhaust is 4 feet from my own face. But I don't believe for one second that emissions controls on a neighbor's leaf blower is going to make one ounce of difference, in my respiratory health.

 

[nisaacs]

 

[Paystar]

So there go, to my point Detroit Diesel just released their Gen 6 DD EPA 2027 series engines and in the press release they stated:
The NOx reduction is significant, from 2 grams hp/hr today to 0.035 in 2027. While the EPA27 regulation is technically still under review, the EPA has given the OEMs guidance that the NOx limit will remain intact. Other aspects of the regulation that could yet be tweaked relate to the extended warranty requirements on the aftertreatment system, an element that was the greatest source of additional costs.

They also stated they are not going to back away from the regulations in fear a new administration will just change it all back again. It takes too many years of design and research.

Truck News also stated they have been seeing price increases announced of $8000 to $30,000 from all the manufacturers.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Truck News also stated they have been seeing price increases announced of $8000 to $30,000 from all the manufacturers.

As I have stated in other places ... My company has a fleet of 450 semi-trucks ... We usually replace a quarter of them every year ... We saw this coming and this is our second year of doubling our new trucks purchased, so that we can reduce the number of the new technology trucks we buy and maintain while they get the bugs out of them the first year or two ...

It means we will run some of the earlier trucks a bit past what we normally run and trade them in at 600K miles, but we are very familiar with the current tier 4 engines, and would much rather run them, than a fleet of the newer one, and be there on road guinea pigs, as they work through whatever problems may arise ...

While the initial cost is expected to go up, as most things do over time, the critical thing for us, is the down time in a shop that the engine won't allow us to deliver our customers good across the country!

Last year California started requiring us to provide them with down loaded information from each of our trucks ECM to prove they were in compliance ... !

 

[Paystar]

As I have stated in other places ... My company has a fleet of 450 semi-trucks ... We usually replace a quarter of them every year ... We saw this coming and this is our second year of doubling our new trucks purchased, so that we can reduce the number of the new technology trucks we buy and maintain while they get the bugs out of them the first year or two ...

It means we will run some of the earlier trucks a bit past what we normally run and trade them in at 600K miles, but we are very familiar with the current tier 4 engines, and would much rather run them, than a fleet of the newer one, and be there on road guinea pigs, as they work through whatever problems may arise ...

While the initial cost is expected to go up, as most things do over time, the critical thing for us, is the down time in a shop that the engine won't allow us to deliver our customers good across the country!

Last year California started requiring us to provide them with down loaded information from each of our trucks ECM to prove they were in compliance ... !

I don't know how a lot of the small guys are still doing it? $300,000 for a new truck now and I still see crap rates and guys working for nothing.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

They don't!

We offer an option to sign on as a lease operator ... They supply the truck (to our specs!) and pull our trailers and freight ... Most don't last 6 months, few a year ...

I looked into it back in 2017 ... I sharpened my pencil asked a lot of questions, talked to a lot of other previous "owner operators" ... And by my figuring ... IF everything went right ... I'd make the same as a company driver for them, like I continue to do ... As a driver of 34 years, I've seen lots of times when things didn't go as planned ... Tow trucks called, sitting in a hotel waiting for the shop to get parts ...

Most forget, or don't see until it happens ... There is no vacation pay, layover pay, breakdown pay, holiday pay, medical, dental, and eye insurance ... If/when you break down, not only are you not making money, but spending more than you would've made, plus you get to pay for your own hotel!