Electricity Price Increases

[ultrarunner]

I hosted some visiting engineers from Germany 20 years ago and was asked why widespread solar was not a thing here in California as it was catching on in Germany which does not have near as many sun hours.

Now northern latitudes like Seattle have solar gaining.

Maybe the cost per Watt dropping plus incentives/regulatory changes turned the tide?

With my electricity cost zeroed I need to focus on the thousand dollars each year spent on natural gas…

Maybe a dual fuel water heater when it comes time to replace?

 

[ultrarunner]

I looked into residential solar for rentals but the cost per kW is much higher as some incentives are limited to owner occupied single family when I checked.

Brother wanted to have solar at the farm but the cookie cutter single family residential rules also do not apply…

 

[KennyG]

If solar economics depend on government program structure and rules, is it really economic?

 

[ultrarunner]

In part it may be fixation on short term thinking as opposed to long term?

I see this play out everyday… good enough, I don’t care what happens 10 years from now, selling the place when I retire, etc.

It may be cultural as far as short term thinking.

I saw this with my friends in Germany living in the same family home hundreds of years old where longevity and quality guided expenditures… investing for the future.

 

[MossRoad]

If solar economics depend on government program structure and rules, is it really economic?

There are many government programs out there for all kinds of stuff.

For example, in 1989, we had 2,150 trees purchased, planted and side sprayed for $265 after the government reimbursed us for 75% of the cost. It was an erosion control program. Should I not have taken advantage of that?

Our county has homestead property tax exemptions. Should we not take advantage of that?

No one has to claim the child deductions on their taxes.

No one has to take unemployment if they lose their job.

Should they not do that? I don't think that's a good decision.

Those are just a few examples.

So, to answer the question 'is it really economic'? For one's own bottom line, the answer is yes. That's what the programs are designed to do.

 

[jyoutz]

There are many government programs out there for all kinds of stuff.

For example, in 1989, we had 2,150 trees purchased, planted and side sprayed for $265 after the government reimbursed us for 75% of the cost. It was an erosion control program. Should I not have taken advantage of that?

Our county has homestead property tax exemptions. Should we not take advantage of that?

No one has to claim the child deductions on their taxes.

No one has to take unemployment if they lose their job.

Should they not do that? I don't think that's a good decision.

Those are just a few examples.

So, to answer the question 'is it really economic'? For one's own bottom line, the answer is yes. That's what the programs are designed to do.

Very good examples. And some further points is that ALL energy sources are subsidized in the U.S. including mining, oil and gas, and renewable energy sources.

 

[WinterDeere]

ALL energy sources are subsidized in the U.S. including mining, oil and gas, and renewable energy sources.

At least partly true, but you're opening a can of worms there, as at least some of what is being cited in such claims are standard tax breaks available to all manufacturing businesses. Very muddy waters, indeed.

One thing I've learned from studying history and many past wars, is that the more you learn about any conflict, the harder it becomes to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys". The Devil is in the details, and perspective is everything. I think the same goes for most debates on energy production, there's good and bad in all aspects, and all sides are at least a little dishonest in curating the numbers that support their perspective.

 

[ultrarunner]

We have an abundance of oak and the annual storm fall could provide heat and cooking for many plus reduce the native fuel load…

As a kid remember dads friends always asking to gather wood…

Can’t give it away now because wood energy is for all intent forbidden…

Maybe because no way to tax?

 

[WinterDeere]

Can’t give it away now because wood energy is for all intent forbidden…

Wood heat is still very popular around here. I burn 6 - 10 cords of hardwoods every year, as do many others around me. Some only fire their stoves when it's blistering cold out, and then there's others running OWB's year-round or at least October thru April. Those of us running free-standing wood stoves as a primary heat source are in the minority, but still not all that uncommon.

 

[ultrarunner]

No solid fuel burn bans or prohibitions on installing wood stoves, fireplaces, etc. where you are?

It’s code here and was expanding to gas fired appliances until a recent pause.