Electricity Price Increases

[JRH02]

If you want to see some REAL creativity in upcharges on a bill, look to Verizon.

 

[Snobdds]

And it could be worse. Can you imagine what it would be like if the tariffs on Chinese electric cars should manically disappear?

Yeah we wouldn't collect so much in tariff revenue, revenue that also makes the dollar stronger to have more purchasing power to get us back to pre covid era prices.

Please, more manic purchasing power...

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Well, the coal plants in my state converted to natural gas and we also have about 40% produced by renewables. But not customer owned solar: corporate owned wind and solar fields. The power companies say their operations costs have decreased by tens of millions annually. My monthly bill has been stable for at least the past 5 years.

Natural gas can be great, it's about the only thing that kept my ex-employer afloat when they saw that they could run the gas turbines drastically cheaper than a bio-mass plant, but still nowhere as cheap as coal. I'm sure that certain renewables in certain areas are reasonable such as Hydro at TVA, but in this area trying to save the world and please the do-gooders nearly bankrupted a once top utility in Florida, as someone else said being diversified is the way to go. If your light bill is as you say , then it sounds like your electricity provider is doing a good job at least regionally, but if the day comes and you hear them say that they are committing to do away with fossil fuels, natural gas etc 100% to generate electricity, hold on to your hat because you are in for an expensive ride.

 

[jyoutz]

Natural gas can be great, it's about the only thing that kept my ex-employer afloat when they saw that they could run the gas turbines drastically cheaper than a bio-mass plant, but still nowhere as cheap as coal. I'm sure that certain renewables in certain areas are reasonable such as Hydro at TVA, but in this area trying to save the world and please the do-gooders nearly bankrupted a once top utility in Florida, as someone else said being diversified is the way to go. If your light bill is as you say , then it sounds like your electricity provider is doing a good job at least regionally, but if the day comes and you hear them say that they are committing to do away with fossil fuels, natural gas etc 100% to generate electricity, hold on to your hat because you are in for an expensive ride.

They are now building the 2nd largest wind farm in the U.S. about 50 miles east of my place. Everyday I see lines of wind turbine towers and blades going down the interstate on trucks. It is going to produce far more than the state can use and the power will be exported to the grid. I don’t know why you say coal is cheaper than natural gas? The local plant ownership say that conversion from coal to gas will save approximately $10M annually in plant operations. Coal requires transport costs, gas comes in a pipeline. Coal requires more people to operate the plant, keep it clean and dispose of waste, gas turbines operate efficiently with little maintenance and personnel needed. And it is abundant and cheap. There will come a time when solar will be the greatest source of power in my area and I think within the next 10 years. As a forester, I’ve been hoping for biomass because it helps us to thin our forests and reduce high severity fires, but the hurdles have been cost as you stated. If we would look at costs to society, biomass would be a bargain when you consider the costs of wildfire management, rehabilitation, reforestation, and community infrastructure and lives lost to high severity fires that could be forgone by forest thinning to use as biomass. But of course the power isn’t as cheap as other options.

 

[rontaki]

Think about all of the coal infrastructure costs: mining, rail transport, handling at power plant, cleaning and waste disposal. Those all require significant personnel and equipment costs.

Which translates in jobs

 

[KennyG]

Which translates in jobs

Which cost money. I'm always amused when I see something being promoted that will "save money and create a lot of jobs". It's possible but not likely.

 

[jyoutz]

Which translates in jobs

Of which they can’t find enough people to do those jobs. It also translates to the cost of power.

 

[Snobdds]

They are now building the 2nd largest wind farm in the U.S. about 50 miles east of my place. Everyday I see lines of wind turbine towers and blades going down the interstate on trucks. It is going to produce far more than the state can use and the power will be exported to the grid. I don’t know why you say coal is cheaper than natural gas? The local plant ownership say that conversion from coal to gas will save approximately $10M annually in plant operations. Coal requires transport costs, gas comes in a pipeline. Coal requires more people to operate the plant, keep it clean and dispose of waste, gas turbines operate efficiently with little maintenance and personnel needed. And it is abundant and cheap. There will come a time when solar will be the greatest source of power in my area and I think within the next 10 years. As a forester, I’ve been hoping for biomass because it helps us to thin our forests and reduce high severity fires, but the hurdles have been cost as you stated. If we would look at costs to society, biomass would be a bargain when you consider the costs of wildfire management, rehabilitation, reforestation, and community infrastructure and lives lost to high severity fires that could be forgone by forest thinning to use as biomass. But of course the power isn’t as cheap as other options.

Coal was made expensive due to regulations...remove the regulations and... boom...cheap.

This coal will be allowing everyone to use Facebood, Amazon, and Microsoft stuff. Tech might seem to be green, but to make the stuff work takes massive amounts of power.

Feds reactivate 440-million-ton coal lease application in Wyoming’s Powder River Basin

by Dustin Bleizeffer, WyoFile The Trump administration is advancing another federal coal lease in Wyoming, potentially opening access to 440 million

capcity.news

 

[rontaki]

"We had to kill the human race in order to save it" - the Enviromentards

 

[Oaktree]

If you want to see some REAL creativity in upcharges on a bill, look to Verizon.

Or a cable provider (pick one, any one). Phone companies too.

 

[Blue Mule]

Historically, here in KY 97% of our energy came from burning coal. The result was dirt cheap utility rates. A certain blue party president started a "war on coal" which really threatened that and caused rates to climb. Then, the 2020-24 administration made it even worse with excessive regulation. So today when I look at my bill, a HUGE chunk of the monthly cost is in "environmental surcharge" and "fuel surcharge" and other taxes. They've shut down two massive generating plants in the last 4 years and have had to start buying energy from other sources from other places which of course drives the cost up.

They keep saying (falsely) that it'll protect our future, but I'm like HEY I HAVE TO LIVE HERE RIGHT NOW.

 

[rontaki]

Historically, here in KY 97% of our energy came from burning coal. The result was dirt cheap utility rates. A certain blue party president started a "war on coal" which really threatened that and caused rates to climb. Then, the 2020-24 administration made it even worse with excessive regulation. So today when I look at my bill, a HUGE chunk of the monthly cost is in "environmental surcharge" and "fuel surcharge" and other taxes. They've shut down two massive generating plants in the last 4 years and have had to start buying energy from other sources from other places which of course drives the cost up.

They keep saying (falsely) that it'll protect our future, but I'm like HEY I HAVE TO LIVE HERE RIGHT NOW.

They have to kill us to save us.

 

[jyoutz]

Coal was made expensive due to regulations...remove the regulations and... boom...cheap.

This coal will be allowing everyone to use Facebood, Amazon, and Microsoft stuff. Tech might seem to be green, but to make the stuff work takes massive amounts of power.

Feds reactivate 440-million-ton coal lease application in Wyoming’s Powder River Basin

by Dustin Bleizeffer, WyoFile The Trump administration is advancing another federal coal lease in Wyoming, potentially opening access to 440 million

capcity.news

I understand your Wyoming perspective on coal (it’s why you have no income tax), but all of the mining, transportation, plant operations, and waste disposal is more cost than a gas pipeline running a clean turbine generator. And yes regulations do add to the cost of operations for every fuel source. Remember pre- clean air act coal plants, acid rain and dying forests? Opening up more coal leases may not be productive if nobody is buying coal except Wyoming power plants. Power companies aren’t investing in new plants and old ones are going off-line.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

They are now building the 2nd largest wind farm in the U.S. about 50 miles east of my place. Everyday I see lines of wind turbine towers and blades going down the interstate on trucks. It is going to produce far more than the state can use and the power will be exported to the grid. I don’t know why you say coal is cheaper than natural gas? The local plant ownership say that conversion from coal to gas will save approximately $10M annually in plant operations. Coal requires transport costs, gas comes in a pipeline. Coal requires more people to operate the plant, keep it clean and dispose of waste, gas turbines operate efficiently with little maintenance and personnel needed. And it is abundant and cheap. There will come a time when solar will be the greatest source of power in my area and I think within the next 10 years. As a forester, I’ve been hoping for biomass because it helps us to thin our forests and reduce high severity fires, but the hurdles have been cost as you stated. If we would look at costs to society, biomass would be a bargain when you consider the costs of wildfire management, rehabilitation, reforestation, and community infrastructure and lives lost to high severity fires that could be forgone by forest thinning to use as biomass. But of course the power isn’t as cheap as other options.

Natural gas fluctuates and while low today it might be as high as a giraffe's bunghole tomorrow, coal is usually contracted out in multi-year deals which is a known fixed cost.

 

[California]

Here is one for you, I have a water well for my cattle and last month I used 80kw for $6.56 charge, but then tack on a $37.00 access charge from the co-op and miscellaneous state and county taxes that bill totaled out to be $51.36 for the month for less than $7.00 worth of electricity use.

Seems to me nearly all of that $51 invoice would be the same regardless of energy source.

Because 90% of the $51 is the cost for distribution after the energy is put on the wires, plus various administrative fees that would likely not change much regardless of what causes the energy. No?

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Seems to me nearly all of that $51 invoice would be the same regardless of energy source.

Because 90% of the $51 is the cost for distribution after the energy is put on the wires, plus various administrative fees that would likely not change much regardless of what causes the energy. No?

My post was in response to Mossroads post about additional fees and taxes above the actual price of the kw hours used, I didn't mention having a problem with the source which happens to be coal, but I do think a $37.00 per month access/customer charge per meter is a bit much, it equals $ 111.00 per month for my 3 meters.

 

[oldnslo]

I understand your Wyoming perspective on coal (it’s why you have no income tax), but all of the mining, transportation, plant operations, and waste disposal is more cost than a gas pipeline running a clean turbine generator. And yes regulations do add to the cost of operations for every fuel source. Remember pre- clean air act coal plants, acid rain and dying forests? Opening up more coal leases may not be productive if nobody is buying coal except Wyoming power plants. Power companies aren’t investing in new plants and old ones are going off-line.

Be curious to see how the true costs compare for drilling wells, building pipelines, storage vessels, production costs, etc. for natural gas compare to coal.

Using natural gas also has a huge effect on heating costs for americans that use gas for home use.

Killing coal plants in coal producing areas does not seem like a winning idea to me for the public.

 

[DarkBlack]

while new coal plants are often more expensive than these renewable costs.“

You definitely searched for an Internet “answer” that matched your expectation.
Good coal plants already exist, but have been getting shut down, because of politics. Comparing a new solar installation to a new coal plant is a disingenuous comparison argument, since they simply need to be maintained, not built new.

Coal plants produce a steady 24/7 electric baseline throughout the darkest nights and days, like NG does to power our factories and communities. Does solar?

 

[DarkBlack]

Natural gas fluctuates and while low today it might be as high as a giraffe's bunghole tomorrow, coal is usually contracted out in multi-year deals which is a known fixed cost.

Under normal conditions, NG power generation is Always cheaper than coal.
What’s happened in the last few years is political sanctions on Russian NG , plus the sabotage of the Russian pipeline. Western Europe was of course, talked into not using Russian NG.
The US, of course, said, no problem Europe, we’ll help you, so we massively ramped up compressing our NG, to ship to Europe, which drove up our domestic prices and electric prices. Propaganda blaming it on Russia-Ukraine conflict.
Got to luv it

 

[jyoutz]

Be curious to see how the true costs compare for drilling wells, building pipelines, storage vessels, production costs, etc. for natural gas compare to coal.

Using natural gas also has a huge effect on heating costs for americans that use gas for home use.

Killing coal plants in coal producing areas does not seem like a winning idea to me for the public.

Keep in mind that the pipeline to route gas to a power plant is done once. Coal transportation occurs repeatedly.