Electricity Price Increases

[ponytug]

It a cost of doing business…

What might be low cost in one area isn’t in another…

The 100 year old union foundry which had many well paying jobs left the Bay Area for Texas…

California officials celebrated its leaving and Texas officials celebrated its arrival…

According to the foundry it could not continue to operate given the ever increasing California compliance costs.

Texas, apparently does not have the same regs?

The foundry was located in a part of California with major air quality issues, and yes, with decreasing local air quality, they were being asked to reduce their emissions. When the local geography doesn't trap air in a bowl, you get "the solution to pollution is dilution" and the emissions get blown away and diluted. So, yes, different air quality regulations in most of Texas.

The foundry made a lot of things for the local area, and won out lots of bids due to their low freight costs. I think that the fact that most locals didn't know they existed speaks for how great a job they were doing on their emissions. However, low emissions is not zero.

In California, we have lots of the population crammed into a couple of bowls, and the air quality goes down the tubes on a regular basis, and those low air quality days lead to Federal crackdowns on local air emissions boards (e.g. CARB) to further reduce emissions. Hence the drive for electric water heating, heat pumps, and EVs. Higher on the list of pollution sources are older vehicles (sorry, I know you are a fan and a collector), small engines, diesels, especially older diesels, and, wait for it, restaurants. Yes all that flame broiled, charcoal grilled food generates a significant amount of local pollution. Currently, the restaurants get an air quality pass, but that's not likely to last. They are just too big a source. In today's economy for food, especially fast food, there is very little margin left, so those regulations are going to be an issue for the restaurants staying in business, as they will either need more filters, or different grills, neither of which is free, and yet millions have their health affected by the lower air quality. Kids stay out of school, parents don't or can't work, and folks die sooner.

If we all get healthy and quit eating fast food, then yes, the air quality problem, and the restaurants would go away. I'm of the mind that Darwin was probably right and we were evolved to pack on the pounds in case of poor harvests and cold winters, so I don't see most folks easily giving up what their bodies are telling them they "ought" to do.

The number one heavy metal water pollutant in the South Bay Area isn't the locally occurring mercury, it is copper, and not from pipes, but the trace amount of copper in disk brake pads washing into the San Francisco Bay when it rains. Lots of commuters, lots of cars, lots of paved areas into a small drainage system.

All the best,

Peter

 

[kenmbz]

The foundry was located in a part of California with major air quality issues, and yes, with decreasing local air quality, they were being asked to reduce their emissions. When the local geography doesn't trap air in a bowl, you get "the solution to pollution is dilution" and the emissions get blown away and diluted. So, yes, different air quality regulations in most of Texas.

The foundry made a lot of things for the local area, and won out lots of bids due to their low freight costs. I think that the fact that most locals didn't know they existed speaks for how great a job they were doing on their emissions. However, low emissions is not zero.

In California, we have lots of the population crammed into a couple of bowls, and the air quality goes down the tubes on a regular basis, and those low air quality days lead to Federal crackdowns on local air emissions boards (e.g. CARB) to further reduce emissions. Hence the drive for electric water heating, heat pumps, and EVs. Higher on the list of pollution sources are older vehicles (sorry, I know you are a fan and a collector), small engines, diesels, especially older diesels, and, wait for it, restaurants. Yes all that flame broiled, charcoal grilled food generates a significant amount of local pollution. Currently, the restaurants get an air quality pass, but that's not likely to last. They are just too big a source. In today's economy for food, especially fast food, there is very little margin left, so those regulations are going to be an issue for the restaurants staying in business, as they will either need more filters, or different grills, neither of which is free, and yet millions have their health affected by the lower air quality. Kids stay out of school, parents don't or can't work, and folks die sooner.

If we all get healthy and quit eating fast food, then yes, the air quality problem, and the restaurants would go away. I'm of the mind that Darwin was probably right and we were evolved to pack on the pounds in case of poor harvests and cold winters, so I don't see most folks easily giving up what their bodies are telling them they "ought" to do.

The number one heavy metal water pollutant in the South Bay Area isn't the locally occurring mercury, it is copper, and not from pipes, but the trace amount of copper in disk brake pads washing into the San Francisco Bay when it rains. Lots of commuters, lots of cars, lots of paved areas into a small drainage system.

All the best,

Peter

and yet California can't get their mass transit act together.

 

[Jstpssng]

Call it what you will but it is not BS

So back your starement up with facts. I looked before making my posts, yet couldn't find where these comments had any merit. I drive past a lot of windmills, yet have never seen one with an oil truck parked on top filling a diesel tank.

 

[KennyG]

So back your starement up with facts. I looked before making my posts, yet couldn't find where these comments had any merit. I drive past a lot of windmills, yet have never seen one with an oil truck parked on top filling a diesel tank.

I think the idea that wind farms need diesel comes from the issues at some UK wind farm installations. Some wind farms have diesel generator installations to balance grid loads when the wind isn't blowing. Also, in some locations there is a real danger of icing and locking the windmills in cold wet weather when the wind isn't blowing. Diesel power is used to de-ice the windmills. They don't need power to start up, just to keep from freezing up.

That's the biggest problem with wind and solar cost projections. There are a lot of issues such as need for spinning reserve, need for backup power that is underutilized or very expensive storage, underutilization of transmission lines, etc. that are typically not included in the cost of generation. That's why California claims solar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuel or nuclear but has the highest electrical rates in the country.

 

[jyoutz]

and yet California can't get their mass transit act together.

It’s a bit more of a challenge in the large landscape in most western states where major cities are separated by hundreds of miles, compared to the east where cities are only ten of miles apart.

 

[kenmbz]

More like this:
After 16 years and roughly $15 billion spent, not one high speed track has been laid by the California High-Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA).

I know it's difficult for transit in many places in the US, but high speed rail on the West coast should be in place, there were plenty of rail lines for copper, coal, produce in place at one time.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

This is part of how our CO-OP breaks things down. I get nipped for two access fees due to having buildings on each side of a pipeline that runs through the property, but that's due to how I decided to do things, so it's on me.

Generally there's more than a couple of factors in the access fee as there are power producers and power distributers along with the associated admin and maintenance that both organizations deal with.

You can choose to a degree how your power is produced, but how it gets to your door is done by somebody else.

Oddly enough, Texas produces around 28% of it's power from wind and solar, not what you'd expect from a place known mostly for petrochem and cattle.

I've played a little with solar on the RV and may dive a bit deeper setting up on the one side, but whether I'll be able to drop one access fee is debatable. But hey, gotta have a hobby!

 

[California]

In California, we have lots of the population crammed into a couple of bowls, and the air quality goes down the tubes on a regular basis

I've posted here (but now can't find it) a photo like this of the state capitol on a warm summer day. And I've see Los Angeles similar, you inhale and its like when you used too much Clorox to wipe down your shower.

So the people scream 'Do Something' at their elected officials. The regulations nobody likes are the result. But now we can breathe.

 

[MossRoad]

HOW do you use so much electricity? Are you an Amazon hub?

Swimming pool, air conditioning, UV light on a tortoise, cold beer... summer is a killer.

 

[MossRoad]

....Do you know it takes a diesel motor to start a wind generator ?
Oz

Where'd you hear that?

 

[MossRoad]

Call it what you will but it is not BS

Where'd you hear that? Seriously. We want to know.

 

[rswyan]

Aired the other night:

AMERICAN EXPERIENCE: Clearing the Air: The War on Smog

 

[jyoutz]

Where'd you hear that?

We have lots of wind farms in my state. I’ve never seen a diesel generator at those locations.

 

[ponytug]

and yet California can't get their mass transit act together.

Yes, I agree, but not for lack of trying.

As @kenmbz pointed out, it isn't as easy in California or the West generally to do it, distance being one item, dispersed populations another, and let's not forget earthquake faults that complicate routes and engineering.

Also, not to overlook the obvious, but acquiring property for transit routes is expensive, as in very expensive.

There is some, small, progress being made with more high density housing adjacent to public transit, something that should have been done decades ago, but good old NIMBY intervened.

Having lived for a while in a dense city with excellent public transit, I'd love it. By excellent, I mean that the subway schedule had the arrival times down to every one minute and two seconds. It completely changed my mental map, as I knew that I could always get a train or a bus within a minute or two, but to be cost effective, that requires high population density, something not common in the US.

FWIW: I have never seen an even a backup generator on wind farms, much less each windmill. Every wind alternator/generator that I have seen is self exciting. It is kind of a basic "cold start/bootstrap" requirement. That there might be wind generators that might need deicing, possibly, but I'd have to bet on that being a more common offshore item, though, I haven't seen photos of that either.

All the best,

Peter

 

[kenmbz]

I've posted here (but now can't find it) a photo like this of the state capitol on a warm summer day. And I've see Los Angeles similar, you inhale and its like when you used too much Clorox to wipe down your shower.

So the people scream 'Do Something' at their elected officials. The regulations nobody likes are the result. But now we can breathe.

I lived in LA in the late 80's and remember the smog, so thick it used to be part of the weather forecast.

But once they got it under control, they kept adding more and more layers of regulations to anything they could. Raising costs and driving business away.

However , I have never seen them do anything about planes and airports and anything the political elite want to use. Houses the size of a city block.

 

[tacticalturnip]

So, how many of y'all are thinking of pulling the trigger and adding some self reliance if not just reducing your electric bill? It's not going to get any better.

It feels so over my head, I can't even imagine.

 

[rswyan]

I lived in LA in the late 80's and remember the smog, so thick it used to be part of the weather forecast.

But once they got it under control ...

They have never "gotten it under control" ...

Best that can be said is that they have lessened the problem to some extent ... to the point that, generally speaking, the air quality doesn't make it completely unlivable ...

 

[riptides]

HOW do you use so much electricity? Are you an Amazon hub?

I mine Bitcoin in my spare time. /s

 

[kenmbz]

LA will always be in a valley surrounded by mountains.
It's the number of people and lack of mass transit that dooms them.
you can get pollution from every device to almost zero, and they will still have problems.
Spend on mass transit and at least the levels can be reduced.
Now to talk about the water and the locals, that is what keeps me away.

 

[JasperFrank]

With my provider, the KWPH didn't change, but the Base Service Charge did.
I don't think there is a solution to that. As an experiment, on our last vacation for three weeks, we turned near everything off. Compared the bill to last year, (same time) and it was the same because of the increases in the Base Service Charge.