Electricians: Range wiring and breaker sizing code

[JimRB]

We could try this another way. A male plug on a cord to plug into a 120v 15 amp receptacle has one configuration. A male plug to plug a cord into a 120v receptacle 20 amp receptacle has another configuration. A male plug to plug into a240v 40 amp receptacle has another configuration. A male plug to plug into a 240v 50 amp has another configuration.

Go to graingers.com and download the receptacle and plug chart, do a bing search and see that every ampacity and voltage has receptacle and plug. More if you consider twist lock which also has ratings to the configurations.

 

[JRobyn]

I'm not a licensed electrician or electrical engineer, just a mechanical engineer, but I successfully wired my new house myself and passed inspection with no findings.

It is my opinion (maybe some here more qualified can confirm) that the MAIN thing the NEC is concerned with, particularly for residential wiring, is protecting the HIDDEN wiring within the house that may overheat and cause a fire. This includes wiring ("cords") to large amp "fixed" appliances. It is not really concerned about your exposed lamp or cell phone charger cord.

And that HIDDEN wiring for large fixed appliances with a receptacle/cord like in this case includes the receptacle.

50 amp rated receptacles

https://www.google.com/search?q=50+...-Straight-Grounding%2Fdp%2FB004P3P2L0;500;500

are DIFFERENT than 60 amp rated receptacles

Google Image Result for

So the problem here WITH THE CIRCUIT is really that the receptacle is under-sized. The OP could probably rectify the inspector's concern by changing out the receptacle to a 60 amp. But then he'd have a circuit that the range wouldn't plug into. So the much better solution is to down-size the breaker to match the receptacle (which the range is already using).

JMHO -Jay

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm not a licensed electrician or electrical engineer, just a mechanical engineer, but I successfully wired my new house myself and passed inspection with no findings.

It is my opinion (maybe some here more qualified can confirm) that the MAIN thing the NEC is concerned with, particularly for residential wiring, is protecting the HIDDEN wiring within the house that may overheat and cause a fire. This includes wiring ("cords") to large amp "fixed" appliances. It is not really concerned about your exposed lamp or cell phone charger cord.

And that HIDDEN wiring for large fixed appliances with a receptacle/cord like in this case includes the receptacle.

50 amp rated receptacles

https://www.google.com/search?q=50+...-Straight-Grounding%2Fdp%2FB004P3P2L0;500;500

are DIFFERENT than 60 amp rated receptacles

Google Image Result for

So the problem here WITH THE CIRCUIT is really that the receptacle is under-sized. The OP could probably rectify the inspector's concern by changing out the receptacle to a 60 amp. But then he'd have a circuit that the range would plug into. So the much better solution is to down-size the breaker to match the receptacle (which the range is already using).

JMHO -Jay

NO. Sorry but I disagree. The breaker's sole purpose is to protect the wire from the breaker to whatever is connected to the circuit. The breaker can't have a higher rating than anything downstream, wire, receptacle, etc. It can have the same rating as the wire and receptacle, and in this case the appliance. Since the range can take 40 or 50 amp circuit 40 is OK and 50 amp is maximum any wiring, breaker, or receptacle is allowed for this dedicated circuit. Essentially the breaker has to cover the lowest, while not exceeding the highest allowable amp draw for the appliance.

 

[kcflhrc]

You could direct wire the range and be done with it

 

[newbury]

NO. Sorry but I disagree. The breaker's sole purpose is to protect the wire from the breaker to whatever is connected to the circuit. The breaker can't have a higher rating than anything downstream, wire, receptacle, etc. It can have the same rating as the wire and receptacle, and in this case the appliance. Since the range can take 40 or 50 amp circuit 40 is OK and 50 amp is maximum any wiring, breaker, or receptacle is allowed for this dedicated circuit. Essentially the breaker has to cover the lowest, while not exceeding the highest allowable amp draw for the appliance.

Do you mean this for any circuit or only "dedicated" circuits?

The breaker can't have a higher rating than anything downstream, wire, receptacle, etc.

 

[JRobyn]

NO. Sorry but I disagree. The breaker's sole purpose is to protect the wire from the breaker to whatever is connected to the circuit. The breaker can't have a higher rating than anything downstream, wire, receptacle, etc. It can have the same rating as the wire and receptacle, and in this case the appliance. Since the range can take 40 or 50 amp circuit 40 is OK and 50 amp is maximum any wiring, breaker, or receptacle is allowed for this dedicated circuit. Essentially the breaker has to cover the lowest, while not exceeding the highest allowable amp draw for the appliance.

You're kinda saying the same thing I am except for the highlighted part and maybe you missed where I said that "And that HIDDEN wiring for large fixed appliances with a receptacle/cord like in this case includes the receptacle.".

Lemme ask you this: you have a dedicated circuit for your refrigerator. Say your refrigerator max amperage is 8.5a. So you have an 8.5a breaker on that?

- Jay

 

[DarkBlack]

The inspector is correct the breaker size is to be the same size or smaller than the device being served,,

WRONG.

 

[LD1]

Certainly some confusion...

 

[DarkBlack]

Never smaller

 

[murphy1244]

See what you started LD?:laughing:

 

[DarkBlack]

called illegal baiting

 

[Coyote machine]

You're kinda saying the same thing I am except for the highlighted part and maybe you missed where I said that "And that HIDDEN wiring for large fixed appliances with a receptacle/cord like in this case includes the receptacle.".

Lemme ask you this: you have a dedicated circuit for your refrigerator. Say your refrigerator max amperage is 8.5a. So you have an 8.5a breaker on that?

- Jay

Can't say I read what you wrote prior to posting.:confused3: Can't say I've ever seen a 8.5 amp breaker either. :confused2: 15 amp may be smallest for residential, IIRC? Don't quote me, I don't profess to have extensive knowledge of codes, more just a general knowledge of how things work; like breaker protecting the circuit wiring, etc. Basically just enuf' to be dangerous.:shocked:

 

[LD1]

Should I get r4's or AGS on my next tractor

 

[newbury]

Should I get r4's or AGS on my next tractor

Neither

Treads!

 

[JRobyn]

That'd be just what FTG-05 needs to bushhog his slopes!!

- Jay

 

[JRobyn]

But what is the best weight and brand of oil to use in the tread drives? Synthetic or dino?

- Jay

 

[buickanddeere]

Hopefully some of you electricians that are well versed in code and all can help me out.

In the midst of selling my home and under contract. Home inspection was done, then I get the request for remedy sheet.

One of the things listed was "overfused condition".

Not sure what this meant. So no idea how to correct. So I called the inspector that did the inspection to get some clarification. He stated it was the range wiring.

There is a thing on the back of the range that reads just like this



Problem is, it is being fed with a 60a breaker and 6 ga wire. He said I need to change to a 40a or 50a breaker. Is that correct? I thought you size the breaker to the wire, and not the device?

If it had been an 7-1/2HP electric motor with #6 cable . The breaker would be a 125amp . So it all depends.

 

[buickanddeere]

The plan is to just put a 40 or 50 on there. Have no idea what it actually draws, never put the clamp on it.

More so, just curious if the way it is now is wrong according to current code requirements. (all though codes from 1995 would have to apply as that is when it was built.) OR, if the inspector is just wrong in his assessment.

Clothes dryer is a 30 amp breaker with a 14-30R receptacle. The stove will either be a 50amp with a 15-50R or a 60 with a 15-60R .

I am sure when an electrician is wiring a new build house, he has no idea what the range is going to be? How does he know if its a 40, 50, or 60??

Same goes for dryers and water heaters.

.......

 

[Coyote machine]

But what is the best weight and brand of oil to use in the tread drives? Synthetic or dino?

- Jay

Olive oil, the kind Popeye would use on Olive oil when he was 'outta spinach! All natural, no synthetic.

 

[buickanddeere]

I think what they are telling you is the actual outlet box is rated at 50 amps. It should be stamped right on the outlet what it is rated for. So if the outlet is rated at 50A you cant use a 60A breaker, simple enough.

View attachment 393143

Better not be plugging a stove or dryer into that plug. In fact that plug is long obsolete. The only thing now that would be close is a 277V or 347V single phase receptacle .