Electrical PVC verse Regular PVC

[sparkkky]

im an engineer.

Assume nothing.

Electricians are the one group of people i can always count on to say whatever you did wasnt right because your not a liecened electrician.

No the N.E.C. says what you did wasn't right! Man its right in the electricans bible we get a new one every three years.


Codes changes alot of the time from a direct result in death.


Licensed Electrical Contractor! No college degree but I spell pretty good and have a license to wire!

I give up you guys don't listen, but if I saved one life today it was worth the grief.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

 

[sparkkky]

Eddie, thats some hog! How did you take it and what did it weight? Going bowhunting for hogs next month.

 

[Defective]

Eddie, thats some hog! How did you take it and what did it weight? Going bowhunting for hogs next month.

That's not Eddie with the hog, it's his wife. If that was Eddie, the hog would have been flattened with a dozer...

 

[Highbeam]

"Yes, black poly would be water. How about if someone uses it as conduit for electric?"

I have absolutely seen this done and I can't say it was all that bad of an idea since the poly waterline is very tough. They ran a 60 amp service to the shop in black poly, also a swimming pool circuit which was at least a 30 amper.

I have had to specify the purple pipe for reclaimed water irrigation lines which were fed from the sewer treatment plant. That line had funny triangular valves on it too.

If I have learned anything from this thread it is to not assume that a pipe is a particular utility based on material, color, or anything else.

 

[flusher]

I’m just about ready to trench several hundred feet for water, electrical and communication lines at my new place. I’ve always used gray electrical PVC for my electrical/communication runs and the regular PVC for water.

I know the gray electrical PVC is UV resistant for exposed applications, but can you use regular schedule 40 PVC in the trench for electrical runs? The only reason I would consider it is that I can buy it in 20’ sticks and it’s cheaper at the plumbing wholesale place.

Would this be a no-no?

Use the white PVC that's marked for potable water use. I wouldn't risk using the gray electrical PVC for drinking water. Why take the chance of some bad health effect to save a few bucks.

Be careful when you shop for PVC pipe at Home Depot or Lowes. I've found a mix of white PVC types in the same rack, some rated for potable use and some only rated for irrigation use.

PVC pipe for drainage/irrigation use is marked "NSF-DWV".

A "NSF-PW" or "NSF-61" marking is added if the pipe is rated for potable water use.

The National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) does the testing and awards the "PW" markings to PVC pipe manufacturers that meet the standards for potable water use.

Check the NSF website for more info
NSF Consumer Information: Residential Plumbing

 

[sparkkky]

If I have learned anything from this thread it is to not assume that a pipe is a particular utility based on material, color, or anything else.

Unless the work was done by code, then grey would be electric!!!

 

[dirtworksequip]

OK, lets take this scenerio. You purchase a home. Your out back in the yard digging around with your new CUT w/ backhoe. You happen onto some black poly pipe. You get out your drill and make a small hole. No water comes out. Must be a dead or abandoned line. So you dig it out. END of STORY!

You just got electrocuted,because someone previously thought it was OK to run electric in waterline pipe instead of conduit.

It may not happen to you,but somewhere there are a lot of people creating the posibility of a future fatality.

Why not use the correct material for the job?

 

[GaryBDavis]

I have absolutly no expectations that anybody will be able to figure out what I've done. I'm not sure what I'm doing and the more I do it, the more confusing it get.

I don't know what I like best about you - your projects or the attitude you take them on with.

 

[Iowachild]

I use my Ingersol-Rand 175CFM air compressor, a Wal Mart plastic bag and light weight fish line to get the initial string through. Then I pull mule tape back through and I'm ready for the cable. I pour some liquid soap in the conduit before I start the pull and it just slides through. .

A vacuum works very well for getting a string through conduit also. There are foam plugs made for the different sizes of conduit, but generally something like a sandwich bag tied to the string is plenty to zip it through.

Of course, I've learned from experience how to size the conduit and just how many bends I can go through before I need a pull box. Oh, and I built a pulling frame with a pulley that pulls straight up.

Actually the code specifies how many bends can be between pull boxes. Up to 360 degrees, four 90's or equivalent.

 

[sparkkky]

Actually the code specifies how many bends can be between pull boxes. Up to 360 degrees, four 90's or equivalent.

Now thats alot better! BTW it needs to be a THHN type wire and not direct bury.

 

[EddieWalker]

Why not use the correct material for the job?

Dirtworksequip,

I don't agree with you or the others that I'm not doing it right, or that there is anything wrong with how I'm doing it. I have a need and I've found a way that I can make my money go further. If I wanted to do it the most expensive way possible, than I'd do it just like Sparkkky said. His method will do the job and I'm all for that. If you want to put a light in your yard, than spend two the three times as much money as I will, go for it.

The light will still light doing it my way, but I'll have done it cheaper.

As for your example of digging up pipes and electricuting yourself, it's just not something I worry about. I've dug up plenty of electrical lines that were hot when I cut them, and I'm sure I'll dig up some more. They don't remain hot when you cut them in half with a backhoe, dozer blade or a shovel. I've never even seen sparks, just a very sad expression on the owners face who didn't know the wires were there.

I'd take a guess that more people are electricuted in homes than in trenches.

I'd also be willing to guess that there are wires running through the ground in an allot of rural farms all over the country without the owners of those farms having any idea where they are. Probably quite a few on this website.

It's not wrong to do something that everyone disagrees with if it's safe and works. So far nobody has been able point out a single thing wrong with my method other than it's the wrong color pipe. Hmmm

If you think this is bad, I got a few things that I'm gonna do in the future that will really shock some people. hahahahaha

Eddie

 

[keeney]

I think the electrical PVC might also have some difference in flamability rating as well. Probably doesn't matter for buried applications.

As far as identification goes - just toss some "Caution" tape into the trench over the pipe.

Question: if you are putting the wire in a conduit, why spend the extra $ on direct-bury rated cable? Wouldn't the cheapest solution be to just put regular THHN wire in that conduit?

- Rick

 

[EddieWalker]

I found the direct burial from Lowes cheaper than the regular stuff. It's very rare that anybody is gonna build something any cheaper than I do. I'm always looking for deals and I get lucky enough to make it worthwhile.

You go ahead and do it anyway you want. Code is only as good as your standard. Your residential code isn't considered good enough for hospitals and if you did the same thing there, you'd go to jail. Why? What's the differnece? Hospital outlets are $20 each.

We both know that 20 amps in the ground with 12/2 is never gonna be a heat issue. If you have a point, make it, but exagerating it to try and convince me of something we both know isn't true really doesn't do anything for your credibility.

You wanna put grey conduit underground, thats fine. You wanna run pipe that's two or three times bigger than you need just in case you need to add something in the future, fine. Not me. I'm gonna get it done and move on to other things.

Thanks for a fun thread,
Eddie

 

[gemini5362]

OK, lets take this scenerio. You purchase a home. Your out back in the yard digging around with your new CUT w/ backhoe. You happen onto some black poly pipe. You get out your drill and make a small hole. No water comes out. Must be a dead or abandoned line. So you dig it out. END of STORY!

You just got electrocuted,because someone previously thought it was OK to run electric in waterline pipe instead of conduit.

It may not happen to you,but somewhere there are a lot of people creating the posibility of a future fatality.

Why not use the correct material for the job?

Ok let me give you another scenario You are digging a water line and the next thing you know there is arcing and sparking everywhere because underneath the ground where you are digging is the main electrical line from the pole and even though it is in GREY conduit you did not realize you were that close to it and you could not see the conduit that is a very real scenario because that is what a guy did at my house one time when he was digging a new water line for me.

Let me see now what would it take for you to get electrocuted if you dug up a line. One of the hot conductors would have to touch part of the backhoe that was electrically insulated from everything else. The rest of the backhoe would have to touch electrical ground. The operator would have to have one part of his body touching the part of the backhoe that was eletctrically insulated from everything else and touching the hot wire. The other part of his body would have to be touching the part of the backhoe that was touching electrical ground. Now since very few people die if they have an electrical shock where the current only goes through say a leg or an arm we probably need to add more to the scenario to make sure it happens.
The part of the body that is touching the electrically insulated section of the backhoe that is touching the hot wire needs to be either the left or right side of the body. The part of the body that is touching the electrically grounded part of the backhoe needs to be the opposite side of the part of the body that is touching the electrically insulated section of the backhoe touching the hot wire. If the part of the body touching the electrically insulated part of the backhoe touching the hot wire is the left side of the body then the part of the body that is touching the electrically grounded part of the backhoe needs to be the right side of the body. If the side of the body touching the part of the backhoe that is the electrically insulated part of the backhoe that is touching the hot wire is the right side of the body, Then the part of the body touching the electrically grounded part of the backhoe needs to be the left side.

If you are wondering why the part touching the hot wire has to be electrically insulated the reason is simple if it were not electricaly insulated and the hot wire touched it then you would have a complete path to ground which probably would not be through the operator and all you would get is a nice fireworks show and a blown fuse but probably not a life threatening event for the backhoe operator.


But personally I am more worried about getting stung by a yellow jacket. I know that for me that is life threatening no matter where it stings me.

 

[Dusty]

I am having computer problems, so this is the best that I can do....
from the government pages... Check out page 2 in the grey box http://www.eh.doe.gov/paa/oesummary/oesummary2004/oe2004-16.pdf

 

[mudcat]

Eddie, Article 352(Rigid Nonmetallic Conduit:Type RNC) of the NEC is the dedicated article for PVC. 352.2 describes the PVC it does not metion color.
352.3 does say that it has to be listed. I'm willing to bet that your purple stuff isn't listed for electrical use. Honestly I could care less. Just thought I would share the part of the code that you are not complying with. I firmly believe that a man should be able to do what he wants on his own land. It is your dime and your land do with it as you will. I think Sparkkky is trying to say that if you are planning on making your property open to the public, it would be is in your best intrest to follow the standards. One accident, electrical or not could turn in to big problems.

 

[EddieWalker]

Not a betting man, but I see law suite's in EW's future. Eddie people like you are a problem, why not be a general home inspector so you can cheat people out of money with a bogus inspection instead of trying to electrocute someone?

Sparkkky,

Am I sensing hostilty here? I'm sorry you feel so strongly about something that I put very low on my list. Maybe in your world this is a big deal. It's not in mine.

Challenging my integrity is just childish and an indication of your own shortcomings. At no time have I denied or tried to cheat anybody. My honesty in what I do is well documented here. I use my real name and it's real easy to find me. In other words, I'm not hiding my identity or trying to pretend something I'm not.

Who have I cheated?

Sincerely,
Eddie Walker

 

[gemini5362]

Not a betting man, but I see law suite's in EW's future. Eddie people like you are a problem, why not be a general home inspector so you can cheat people out of money with a bogus inspection instead of trying to electrocute someone?

Sparky why are you against general home inspectors. When someone I sell real estate to wants a home inspector I encourage that. The cost of a home inspector is very minor comparted to the cost of a house. If you know noting about owning a home you get a licensed person to come and inspect it for you. The home inspector generally will look at things you did not think to. Did a home inspector not aprove one of your wireing jobs at some time in the past ?