Buying Advice Early '60's MF 35 Utility

[Kenneth S]

On the right had side opposite the pto cover is another cover that has the dipstick for the oil level in the transmission, Remove that cover, and move the levers for the 3 point, and look for movement. Also you do not need the side covers on to flush the hydraulics, just fill it with your cleaning mixture to where the bottom side cover bolts are, and run it. When you pull the side covers off you should be able to scoop out any sludge that's laying on the bottom that didn't drain before putting your cleaning mixture in.

 

[shaeff]

I forgot about Wal-Mart! Thanks!

Edit: Where do you guys buy most of your parts from? Like the shifter boot that I need: 190697M1 (thanks for the P/N Kenneth), I'm having trouble finding it on Steiner or Yesterday's Tractors. I found it on AGCO, but was referred to a local dealer, I'll check with them on Monday.

 

[shaeff]

On the right had side opposite the pto cover is another cover that has the dipstick for the oil level in the transmission, Remove that cover, and move the levers for the 3 point, and look for movement. Also you do not need the side covers on to flush the hydraulics, just fill it with your cleaning mixture to where the bottom side cover bolts are, and run it. When you pull the side covers off you should be able to scoop out any sludge that's laying on the bottom that didn't drain before putting your cleaning mixture in.

Hey Kenneth, I missed this post. I've already pulled the cover for the PTO lever. It's broken beyond repair. I've also reached in as far as I can and scooped out all the nasty sludge in the bottom, it's easily 3/4" of junk down there. I'll pull the other cover off on Saturday and see where that gets me as far as movement goes in the hydraulics.

In the meantime, here's a picture of the PN on the cover for my PTO lever, first pic. That part number does not match what AGCO has, which is: 181214M1. The back of my plate shows 181269M1

That being said, I found this replacement, but this one says "Ground PTO" in addition to neutral and engine PTO.
FERGUSON, Series, TO35, PTO, Sub-Component, GROUND SPEED SHIFT COVER, 181214M1 at Wengers Of Myerstown

Overall shape looks the same, assuming I use my lever and detent spring this should still work for my needs, yes?

 

[Kenneth S]

Give these guys a call, they may have it All States Ag Parts | Used, new and rebuilt tractor, combine and skid steer parts they part out old tractors.

 

[shaeff]

Give these guys a call, they may have it All States Ag Parts | Used, new and rebuilt tractor, combine and skid steer parts they part out old tractors.

Awesome, they're calling me back tomorrow and are pretty sure they've got what I need. Thanks!

My tune up parts should be here Wednesday, and I'm hoping that my spin-on oil filter adapter/filter setup will be here before the weekend, too, so I can warm it up, drop the engine oil and change that out with a new filter assembly.

 

[Kenneth S]

The oil filter on the z134 engine is a bypass filter system, it filters a little bit of the oil then dumps it back into the oil pan, while the important parts like the bearings gets un-filtered engine oil. What I would do after you warm it, and dump the oil that's in it is to leave the drain plug out, and dump a gallon, or two of diesel in to flush out any crud that still maybe sitting in the bottom of the oil pan. Then put your new filter, and oil in, then pull the coil wire off, and crank it over until you see the oil pressure start to come up (so it fills the new filter, and everything), then hook the coil wire back up, and run it. In my signature below the is a link to "My Continental Z134 oil system/filter modification", give it a look.

 

[shaeff]

The oil filter on the z134 engine is a bypass filter system, it filters a little bit of the oil then dumps it back into the oil pan, while the important parts like the bearings gets un-filtered engine oil. What I would do after you warm it, and dump the oil that's in it is to leave the drain plug out, and dump a gallon, or two of diesel in to flush out any crud that still maybe sitting in the bottom of the oil pan. Then put your new filter, and oil in, then pull the coil wire off, and crank it over until you see the oil pressure start to come up (so it fills the new filter, and everything), then hook the coil wire back up, and run it. In my signature below the is a link to "My Continental Z134 oil system/filter modification", give it a look.

I've looked over that link in your signature a few times. Do I need to pull the oil pan (or have the motor apart?) to do that? It looks like I do, but I'll wait for your confirmation. Also not a bad idea to flush the pan with diesel either, I'll do that. Still scratching my head on why they'd set up the oil system like that! Any time I do a full oil change I pull the coil wire (or EFI fuse on newer cars) and crank until I see the gauge move. That's something my father taught me when I started driving. Thanks for the tips!

Still trying to find that shuttle shift H-S-L boot. I see them, or something similar on eBay, but they're $30 after shipping! Not that it's not worth it to keep water out of my transmission, but the $12 shipping kills me! Is there anyplace that I haven't looked that has it? I checked Yesterday's Tractors, Steiner, Tractor Parts ASAP, and another place that I can't recall right now.

 

[Kenneth S]

You don't really need to redo the oil filter the way I did, as long as you change oil, and filter on a regular basis you shouldn't have a problem. I did what I did to mine as a experiment which I'm very happy with the results so far. On the H-S-L/shuttle shift boot I have the exact same problem you do so I wrapped a rag around it with some zip ties to keep dirt out, and keep water away from it. The $12.00 for shipping such a little part that doesn't hardly weigh anything kills me also.

BTW: On efi cars "usually" holding the gas pedal all the way down to the floor before, and while cranking should keep it from starting.

 

[shaeff]

You don't really need to redo the oil filter the way I did, as long as you change oil, and filter on a regular basis you shouldn't have a problem. I did what I did to mine as a experiment which I'm very happy with the results so far. On the H-S-L/shuttle shift boot I have the exact same problem you do so I wrapped a rag around it with some zip ties to keep dirt out, and keep water away from it. The $12.00 for shipping such a little part that doesn't hardly weigh anything kills me also.

BTW: On efi cars "usually" holding the gas pedal all the way down to the floor before, and while cranking should keep it from starting.

I do like the system that you came up with, I think it should be that way from the factory. The gearhead in me cringes at the thought of unfiltered oil getting to the bearings and cam. Yikes! I'll look into it eventually, but for now I'll just keep on top of oil changes and whatnot.

I came across this on eBay for the shuttle shift boot, but I'm not sure that it'll actually work:MF shift boot

It doesn't look like it has enough "throw" for the shuttle lever.

I'm going to stop at my local tractor dealer and see if they can get one for a halfway decent price.

Also I didn't know that about flooring the accelerator on an EFI car. Maybe I'll look up if it works on mine rather than pulling the fuse.

 

[Kenneth S]

Looks like that one may work, but the 190697M1 boot that your tractor, and mine calls for looks different than that one. Plus the 190697M1 boot price without any shipping is in the $40.00 range (ouch).

 

[shaeff]

Looks like that one may work, but the 190697M1 boot that your tractor, and mine calls for looks different than that one. Plus the 190697M1 boot price without any shipping is in the $40.00 range (ouch).

I'm reluctant to give it a try, after shipping (for $12) it'll end up being about $25. At that rate, I'd rather just buy the proper one so I know it fits.

Since I'm kindof in the dark until my manuals show up- My 35 has full power steering, does it draw hydraulic fluid out of the transaxle for this? Or is there a power steering fill spout that I'm somehow overlooking?

Also- is it ok to flush the loader system with diesel too? The vent cap is gone off the reservoir, so I'm betting on water contamination there, too.

 

[Kenneth S]

On the loader system I wouldn't flush it with diesel because of the all the cylinder seals. Best thing is to drain it, put fresh oil in it, run it, and change it again along with the filter. It may take a few changes to get all the water out, if you flush it with diesel it will take a few oil changes to get all the diesel out along with the water.

On the left hand side of the engine is the ps pump, its driven off the gears in the front of the engine. The ps pump has its own oil reservoir on top of it.

 

[shaeff]

On the loader system I wouldn't flush it with diesel because of the all the cylinder seals. Best thing is to drain it, put fresh oil in it, run it, and change it again along with the filter. It may take a few changes to get all the water out, if you flush it with diesel it will take a few oil changes to get all the diesel out along with the water.

On the left hand side of the engine is the ps pump, its driven off the gears in the front of the engine. The ps pump has its own oil reservoir on top of it.

Ok, I'll flush the loader with UTF as I get it ready to go. Good to know, I didn't think about the cylinder seals.

For the power steering- UTF in that too? Or ATF/power steering fluid?

 

[Kenneth S]

They used to use Type A automatic transmission fluid which is about impossible to find these days. The main thing is for the oil to be non-foaming, I've seen some people use UTF, ATF, or power steering fluid for domestic cars. I use UTF, but you can ask 10 people, and you will probably get 10 different answers on what to use.

 

[shaeff]

For the sake of continuity across the board, I'll use UTF. One less thing I have to keep on hand if I keep all the oils (except engine) the same.

 

[shaeff]

Boxes of stuff arriving from Steiner, Yesterday's Tractors, and a tractor boneyard in Pennsylvania (Wagner's?). Hoping to get a lot done this weekend, flush out the transaxle and see if the 3pt hitch starts to work is my main concern. I have to get the pickup screen/filter out first and clean it. Seems like it's on there pretty tight, I didn't see or feel a safety wire but I'll have to look again to be sure. It was dark and cold out when I was looking at that area.

New PTO cover plate is here, they sent one that shows three positions (ground, neutral and engine PTO) Apparently either will work, I matched it up to mine and it's identical, save for the Ground PTO designation. Fine by me, this tractor is for work not for lookin' pretty. (no offense to those whom restore them, that's just not my plan)

I've also got a nice box of tune-up parts, plugs, wires, condenser, cap, rotor, points, etc. Now I'm on the hunt for the breather on my loader frame, stopping at the local tractor place near my job today to see if it's still available. Already printed the diagram and part number out to make it easy for them. If all goes according to plan, I'll have this thing ready to rock after Thanksgiving, and up at my house to brush hog my field!

PS- is there any significant difference (Besides tinwork and .5gpm flow from the hydraulic pump) between my 35 Utility and a 202 workbull? My cousin is looking at one (202) locally for $3500. I couldn't find much of a difference between the two of them.

 

[Kenneth S]

The 202 workbull is a "variant" of the 35, so for a few minor differences it's pretty much the same. TractorData.com Massey Ferguson Work Bull 202 industrial tractor information

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I do like the system that you came up with, I think it should be that way from the factory. The gearhead in me cringes at the thought of unfiltered oil getting to the bearings and cam. Yikes! I'll look into it eventually, but for now I'll just keep on top of oil changes and whatnot.

I came across this on eBay for the shuttle shift boot, but I'm not sure that it'll actually work:MF shift boot



It doesn't look like it has enough "throw" for the shuttle lever.

I'm going to stop at my local tractor dealer and see if they can get one for a halfway decent price.

Also I didn't know that about flooring the accelerator on an EFI car. Maybe I'll look up if it works on mine rather than pulling the fuse.

It's not really "unfiltered" oil...all the oil in the pan is filtered...BUT, as stated, the oil, after filtering is then sent back to the pan where its picked up by the oil pump..I'm sure your engine will ONLY run about 8 or 9 thousand hours with the system it has....(grin)...as far as the boots, I got mine at Tractor supply...pretty sure that Agri Supply has them also... get that crap out of the trans and change the oil/filter on the engine...start it and let it run....for HOURS!!...Good luck and let us know...by the way, sorry for the later responses...took a week vacation to the beach...ho hum.... regards, Bob in VA

 

[shaeff]

The 202 workbull is a "variant" of the 35, so for a few minor differences it's pretty much the same. TractorData.com Massey Ferguson Work Bull 202 industrial tractor information

Definitely close enough!

It's not really "unfiltered" oil...all the oil in the pan is filtered...BUT, as stated, the oil, after filtering is then sent back to the pan where its picked up by the oil pump..I'm sure your engine will ONLY run about 8 or 9 thousand hours with the system it has....(grin)...as far as the boots, I got mine at Tractor supply...pretty sure that Agri Supply has them also... get that crap out of the trans and change the oil/filter on the engine...start it and let it run....for HOURS!!...Good luck and let us know...by the way, sorry for the later responses...took a week vacation to the beach...ho hum.... regards, Bob in VA

Gotcha, I still like Ken's idea though. Should have been that way from the factory! I ended up buying the (*gasp*) $40 shift boot from my local tractor dealer. Figured I'd just get that out of the way and keep it pliable with rubber cleaner/conditioner to prevent dry rot/cracking.

On to the issues...

I filled the case with 5gal of diesel, a quart of ATF, and a bottle of alcohol after I cleaned the pump filter screen and put the PTO lever/cover back in place. I fired up the tractor and went to engage the PTO, the lever wouldn't move. It moves freely with a nice solid detend when the tractor is not running, but once fired up it won't move. I verified that it's installed correctly, all is well on that end. I worked the 3pt hitch lever and draft control, no dice, that sucker's not moving. I still let the tractor run, but as I was fiddling with things, I noticed a drip of diesel coming from that 4 bolt inspection cover on the clutch housing. Great. I'll probably have to split it after all.

Then I noticed the lower radiator hose was split and leaking, gotta order a new one. Then I started fiddling around with other things, and noticed under the seat, there are three bolts (studs?) that are broken. I can pull them right out. I've posted a picture of two of them, the other is under the seat bracket. I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the 3pt hitch not working. It would certainly make sense. I'm off to look at AGCO for diagrams to see what those studs go to. I'll likely have to pull that cover plate under the seat to see what's wrong down there. Difficult job?

AGCO pic- is item #15 supposed to be parallel to the ground? Mine is not, it's at about a 45° angle.

Edit: from my (very) quick research before I go make dinner, it looks to me like the lift cylinder may be bolted in using those studs. If they're broken, the cylinder surely won't lift anything. That's my guess for now, until someone more educated informs me otherwise.

 

[Kenneth S]

Yep, those studs hold the lift cylinder to the top cover, it probably blew the o-ring between the cylinder, and lift cover. The top cover will have to come off to fix that, one you get to the cylinder you can see what size it is, and look into it to see what it needs (might as well while you have it out).